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HOMEBREW Digest #0835
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 92/03/03 03:15:13
HOMEBREW Digest #835 Tue 03 March 1992
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
recipe formulation (long, ~130 lines) (Brian Smithey)
<Concierge NOTICE> (Stan Schwerin)
dry beer ("richard t. barrett")
kegging (Russ Gelinas)
bad beer (sherwood)
Cider digests and books (Michael L. Hall)
SN Celebration Ale (Michael T. Daly)
Re : blow-off vs trub (Conn Copas)
Hop growing (Chris Shenton)
Re: use of hops (Norm Pyle)
Home Brew Browser (KIERAN O'CONNOR)
Yeast Washing Info (loc)
Yeast Washing (Darren Evans-Young)
non-lambic and non-Trappist Belgians (Ray Peck)
Thanks (trwagner)
Test of the -SMTPLink from Various Networked PC's (Daniel A Conners)
Problems with long ferment--WYeast 1056 (Jeff Frane)
BJCP upcoming exams (homer)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 92 11:47:53 MST
From: chinook!smithey@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM (Brian Smithey)
Subject: recipe formulation (long, ~130 lines)
In a recent HBD, Tony Babinec (tony@spss.com) gave a nice description of
the Kolsch style, along with a recipe and notes that reminded me quite a
bit of my own recipe formulation process. This finally inspired me to sit
down and write this note that I've been intending to put together for quite
some time. Recipes and requests for recipes show up quite a bit in the HBD,
but I can't recall ever seeing a recipe "algorithm" posted. Hopefully
some of you will find this useful.
When designing a new recipe, there is often a particular style that a brewer
has in mind; witness the number of requests for "clone" recipes that get posted
here. A book that I find invaluable when trying to invent a recipe for a
style I haven't brewed before is Fred Eckhardt's "The Essentials of Beer
Style". The main section of this book is a self-described "beer catalog",
with brewing profiles for 38 catagories of beer. These profiles contain
original and final specific gravity, color, hop bitterness, and alcohol
content for several commercial examples in each of the catagories. Other
references that I consult are the Zymurgy Yeast and Hop special issues
(and now also the latest Beer Styles special), and Dave Miller's TCHOHB.
Generally, building a new recipe involves selecting the appropriate kinds
and amounts of malt (for flavor, gravity, and color), selecting the
appropriate variaties and amounts of hops (for bitterness, flavor, and
aroma), and selecting the appropriate yeast (for attenuation and flavor).
As in all facets of homebrewing, malt selection is always subject to the
brewer's discretion. My flexible rule of thumb is to use British pale
malt and optionally crystal and dark (chocolate, black) malts for British
ales (pale, brown, porter, stout); American 2-row (the widely available
Klages) in place of the British pale when doing American microbrewery
styles; and Klages, Crystal, Vienna, and Munich malts for Continental
lager styles. A wide variety of crystal malts, from 20L to 120L color,
are available to allow the brewer to adjust the caramel sweetness and
color of the finished beer. Getting the malt flavor that is appropriate
for the desired style is often a matter of getting the appropriate
proportions of specialty malts; again, Eckhardt gives lots of hints.
For example, for Bock/Dopplebock, Fred suggests dark Munich, dark caramel,
dextrin, and black malts for darker color and sweetness. Black malt is
convenient for adjusting color for dark beers, as 1 or 2 oz of 500+ L
malt can make a great difference in color with a minimal flavor impact.
For roughly calculating the color of the finished beer, one must know
the color (in degrees Lovibond, L) of the malt one uses in the mash.
Color of typical beer malts runs from less than 2L for pale lager malts
to greater than 500L for black malt and roasted barley. If your supplier
isn't providing the color of your malt, you may want to ask him if he can
do so. On pp. 54-55 of Miller's book there is a table of malt colors from
Briess Malting, and a formula for calculating wort and beer color from the
colors and amounts of malt used. For extract brewers, you're pretty much
on your own. If any extract brewers have some emperical numbers for colors
of malt extracts, you may want to share them with this group. Miller's
formula will result in a color in degrees Lovibond; unfortunately, Eckhardt's
profiles give a color value on a 1-10 scale, with a mapping from his 1-10
to the SRM degree, which he says is roughly equivalent to the Lovibond
degree. For example, he says that Ayinger Export Weissbier is color 4,
and his table says that 3.5-4.5 is "light amber", 5.5-10 SRM. I usually
look at several examples of the style that I'm trying to brew, and get a
rough idea of the SRM color I want from Fred's book.
Calculating original specific gravity is a matter of knowing how many points
of specific gravity you get per pound of malt per gallon of water for your
particular process, and then calculating for the combination of malts that
you're using and the size of the batch that you're brewing. Miller (on p. 196)
and Papazian both give points/#/gallon figures in their books. Miller's tend
to be quite a bit higher than Papazian's. Grain brewers will have to brew a
few batches to get a feel for how well they extract malt sugars from their
grain, and use the values that their particular process gives them. Extract
brewers are probably pretty safe in assuming that the numbers in Miller's
book are accurate, as one should expect to get 100% efficiency when using
extracts.
Selecting hops is another personal decision; typically one will use English
Goldings or Fuggles when doing British ales, noble Continental hops for
European lager styles, and popular American hops (such as Willamette or
Cascade) for micro styles. Again, this is wide open, and many brewers will
also find use for the super-high alpha bittering varieties that are becoming
popular (Eroica, Chinook, etc.). Whatever hops you decide to use, you'll
need to know the alpha acid content in order to calculate the bitterness
contribution from the hops. Again, if your supplier doesn't provide this
information, request that they do so. Eckhardt's book gives profile bitterness
in IBU (International Bittering Units). Formula for computing IBU from alpha
acid content are available in several references available to the homebrewer;
those that I know of are Eckhardt's "Beer Styles", Rager's article in the
Zymurgy Hop special issue, and Byron Burch's "Brewing Quality Beers". Using
any of these to compute bitterness, and comparing to the profiles in Eckhardt,
there is no reason to be under- or over-hopped for the desired style. For
extract brewers using hopped extracts, there is a table of many of the more
popular hopped extracts, with bitterness values, in the Zymurgy "Hops and Beer"
special issue; unfortunately they are in the infamous "HBU" units. A little
math should be able to get you to IBU's.
The other issue involved in hopping is bitterness vs. flavor and aroma.
Long hop boils are necessary to extract the bittering acids from hops, but
this tends to drive off volitile flavor and aroma compounds. Late additions
are used when hop flavor and/or aroma are desired. Rager's and Burch's
IBU formula have utilization factors for late additions. I know of no way
to quantitatively measure the aroma and/or flavor contibutions of late hop
additions. You'll have to experiment with this until you get the desired
effect. Eckhardt's book hints occasionally when a hop flavor or aroma may
be appropriate; also note than German (lager) brewing practice often calls
for 3 separate hop additions, while British (ale) brewing adds all hops at
the beginning of the boil. Aroma may be added later by "dry hopping", a topic
frequently covered in this digest.
Finally, one chooses a yeast. For Wyeast users, the names of the yeasts
make it pretty easy to guess which one might be best for the style you're
brewing. An article by Burch in the Zymurgy yeast special goes into a bit
more detail describing the character of many of the Wyeast varieties. If
you're using dry yeast, your choice is more often limited to a couple of
brands, and "lager" or "ale". Use a yeast that you're comfortable using
that provides results with which you're happy. If you know anything about
the the degree of attenuation to expect with your choice of yeasts, the
final specific gravity information from Eckhardt's book and/or sweet/dry
descriptions of the styles can help you select an appropriate yeast.
When you put it all together, you'll find out that things like wort specific
gravity affect hop bitterness utilization, and you might discover that computing
all of this stuff becomes an iterative, fine-tuning process. Fortunately, there
are ways to make this easier. There are a couple of free spreadsheets floating
around that include the formulas that I've mentioned. I use one for the Unix
"sc" spreadsheet and wouldn't do it without (thanks, Tom). There are also
commercial software programs available for home computers, check Zymurgy for
advertisements if you're interested. I believe that Darryl Richman's program
for the Mac does all of this and more, including water chemistry if you're
interested in fiddling with that.
Beering is my hobby, not my business, I don't receive money from any sales
of books, software, etc. mentioned here.
Happy brewing,
Brian
- --
Brian Smithey, at home
chinook!smithey@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1992 7:04:15 PST
From: schwerin@mailhost.hsas.washington.edu (Stan Schwerin)
Subject: <Concierge NOTICE>
Date 3/2/92
Subject <Concierge NOTICE>
From Stan Schwerin
To CHANGE THIS IF NECESSARY
>From QMCONCIERGE <Concierge NOTICE>
Your mail in reference to "Homebrew Digest #834 (March" has been received.
[ ] I am on Vacation.
[X] I have Moved.
[ ] I am Away.
I will read your mail when I return.
Hi, I'm skiing at Mt. Bachelor right now. When I return on Monday, Feb 2,
I will read your mail.
If this is an emergency, please contact Chris Kilbourn.
-Stan Schwerin
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 92 10:36:11 EST
From: "richard t. barrett" <RBARRETT@uga.cc.uga.edu>
Subject: dry beer
Hello:
I was just wondering how a dry beer is made and if you can homebrew a dry beer.
I recently tried the new Keystone DRY and it wasn't that bad to me.(pretty ch
eap too) Any response would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Richard
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1992 11:13:44 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: kegging
Well I finally had someone knowledgeable take a look at my keg, and
the prognosis is very good. The only concern is the relief valve in
the cover. There doesn't seem to be any way to engage it; it has no ring
to pull. I took it apart, and it seems that it might release if you press
on the top of it with a pointed object. I tried that with the keg
pressurized, but nothing happened. Is the valve defective, or is that
just the way they work? The Foxx catalog has replacement valves, but
to get a ring-pull valve I'd have to replace the whole cover.
Actually there's another concern: there's no check valve for the
regulator. Foxx doesn't seem to have them. Could some kind soul point
the way to someone who does? Thanks.
Russ (btw, the Wyeast package that was about to burst did *not*)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 09:12:51 -0800
From: sherwood@adobe.com
Subject: bad beer
Thanks for the many mail messages I received with regards to my friend's
beer. To recap, he had over 100 good extract batches, switched brewing
equipment and went all grain, then had 4 of 5 batches turn out to be
undrinkable due to a sour-milk sort of odor, all with stuck fermentations.
The consensus was underoxygenation causing the stuck fermentation, with the
bad odor and taste being a byproduct of that. I have two more data points.
When I tasted my (ie, not his) beer again (this time looking for that
off-taste) I found the same taste, though very slight. In addition, he finally
got around to dumping one of his kegs of bad beer. It had sat at about 45F for
two months. It was now HIGHLY carbonated. He sprayed maybe a gallon of foam
into his sink when he noticed something -- it didn't smell bad anymore. He
tasted it -- and immediately stopped dumping it. It now tasted just fine. I
had a glass; he was right. Not even a trace of the odor that was once so
overpowering we considered the batch a total loss.
So I have a conjecture. I recall mention here on the HBD of some chemical that
yeast produce while reproducing that they then reabsorb later. I thought that
that was a mild offtaste. Maybe not and that is what we have here? The stuck
fermentations perhaps preventing the reuptake?
On the latest batch, we oxygentated the wort fairly well and had it take off
like gangbusters. Very active fermentation, kicked off no doubt by a large
amount of pitched yeast (from a starter). But it still stuck, this time at
1030 but without the off smell of previous batches. He racked it to a
secondary, and fermentation picked up immediately (glub every 3 seconds). I
assume this was either to more oxygen or rousting the yeast. But he racks
gently to minimize oxygenation, and racks carefully to avoid racking the trub.
So if he didn't pick up much 02, and siphoned off only the yeast that was
already in suspension, why the dramatic increase in activity? In fact, would
oxygen help at this point at all? There was obviously enough yeast for a
vigorous start. So why do they stop? Do the yeast get 'tired' after a while
and require O2 either to get rejuvinated or to reproduce (so you get some new,
more vigorous yeast)? Do they just like the change of scenery ? (:-))
Any help with these questions is sincerely appreciated.
Geoff Sherwood
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 10:54:11 MST
From: mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov (Michael L. Hall)
Subject: Cider digests and books
This is directed to Daniel Roman (your email bounced):
You told us about the cider-digest, but you didn't tell us how to
subscribe! I'm sure that many people on the HBD may be interested.
Please respond with the email address of the cider list.
To everyone:
Concerning cider, I recently bought a book from the AHA that is
entitled "Sweet & Hard Cider", published by Storey (?) Press, for
$10.95 +S&H. I don't know a lot about making cider, but the book looks
excellent to me. It is very informative and takes you through the whole
process, including grinding your apples and squeezing the juice out.
It even tells you how to mix different kinds of apples (sweet, tart,
tannic, base, etc.) together to make that perfect cider. I heartily
recommend this book for those of you interested in cider. (Standard
disclaimers about not being related to anybody that could benefit apply.)
Michael L. Hall
mlh@cygnus.ta52.lanl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 11:56:29 CST
From: ssi!mtd@uunet.UU.NET (Michael T. Daly)
Subject: SN Celebration Ale
I know it is a bit late to ask, but does anyone have a recipe (all grain
preferred but I can fake it) to mimmic the Serria Nevada Celebration Ale
from last season?
Mike
Black Swan femto-brewery, Eau Claire, WI.
Mike Daly (uunet!ssi!mtd) -- (715) 839-8484
Supercomputer Systems Inc. 1414 W. Hamilton Ave. Eau Claire, WI 54701
There are two kinds of people in this world.....Cannibals and Lunch.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 92 13:38:13 GMT
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : blow-off vs trub
Reading the post on scientific and statistical methods prompted me to think
that there are two quite distinct claims being made about the effects of trub.
The first is, that because trub is largely a tannin-protein precipitate,
contact with the brew may dissolve some of the tannin and produce astringent
flavours. This effect is presumably what those who have tasted blow-off have
detected, although it is often mislabelled as having something to do with
'hop resin'. The second claim is that yeast will extract oxygen from the trub
and in the process produce more fusel oil, which at low levels can be
interesting, but at higher levels tastes solvent-like and possibly harsh.
So here is one suggestion for an (incomplete) experimental design. Take some
trub and strain it. Dry it roughly by pressing between paper towel. Now place
it in an appropriate amount of water, preferably acidified and fortified with
pure alcohol to obtain a beer-strength mixture. Let sit for a period around
2 weeks, maybe with some agitating, then note whether anything has dissolved.
Incidentally, I understand that some breweries actually employ tannin as a
clarifying agent. I've demonstrated this to myself at home when making yeast
starters with malt extract. Adding a pinch of grape tannin (reputedly
equivalent to tannic acid) causes the wort to drop star bright without
ever being brought to the boil. It also results in a darker wort and the most
evil looking trub one is ever likely to encounter. Presumably, the breweries
then precipitate the dissolved tannin out with something else like gelatine
or Polyclar. Just to complicate the issue, tannin is also regarded as a haze
precursor, so my chemical musings cease at this point.
- --
Loughborough University of Technology tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre fax : (0509)610815
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail - (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
G Britain (Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 11:04:32 PST
From: css@haze.ccsf.caltech.edu (Chris Shenton)
Subject: Hop growing
On Feb 25, Daniel Roman <tix!roman@uunet.UU.NET > writes:
> I bought some cuttings from an outfit in Oregon and when they
> arrived by UPS ground I immediately opened the box and stuck them in
> the ground. I finally dug them up and all four were dead.
>
> Anybody know of a place on the east coast where I could buy some
> cuttings so that they would not have as much a chance of drying out
> before I get them?
I bought from Freshhops and had success with 8 out of the 10 rhizomes
that I bought, 2 rhizomes of 5 different varieties. The Cascades did
much better than the Hallertauer, Tettnanger, Mt. Hood, and
Willamette.
Just a data point.
BTW: I actually live in DC -- I'm just visiting the Left Coast.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 11:43:43 MST
From: pyle@intellistor.com (Norm Pyle)
Subject: Re: use of hops
korz@ihlpl.att.com writes:
Lots of great info about hops and ...
>Aging:
>Both the bittering and the bouquet will diminish over time, so if you've
>used too much, don't fret, wait 3 or 6 months. Then again, you can't
Is this true? I've noticed in some brews (which accidently lay around for a
few months) that there was a distinct loss of sweetness over time which, to
my tongue, came off as an increased bitterness. The sweetness normally
balances the bitterness, so it seemed more bitter over time. I attributed
the loss of sweetness to a mild infection of a wild yeast or a bacteria which
was able to ferment the "unfermentables" given enough time (I noticed no real
"off flavors" other than this phenomenon. I suppose with better sanitation
this would not occur and that the effect of which Al speaks would be more
evident. What have others found? I've got a vested interest in this
question since I've got a bock in the basement which is pretty high on the
bitter side. If the bitterness fades a bit, it should be incredible.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1992 10:25 EDT
From: KIERAN O'CONNOR <OCONNOR%SNYCORVA.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Home Brew Browser
The upgrade of the HomeBrew Browser is out,version 1.6. For those of
you who dont know hwat the Brew Browser is--its a Macintosh HypeCard
Stack for reading the HBB on your mac. it lets you separate the
messages and the message headers--click on the header, and you get the
message on the irght side of the screen.
if you want to try one out--email me with a subject line--I want my
HBB!
Kieran
oconnor@snycorva.bitney
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 16:56:54 EST
From: loc@bostech.com
Subject: Yeast Washing Info
Yeast washing basically is a process of mixing the
yeast with enough hydrocloric acid to bring the
ph of the slurry to 2.2. You want to do this with
yeast that has as little trub in it as possible.
(yet another reason to use a wort chiller and separate
the trub from the wort)
By bringing the ph to this level you kill off any
mutant and weak yeast. This then gives you a strong
yeast colony to start with. Big breweries only wash
a yeast batch 10 times. After that the chances of
getting a mutant strain in the brew increases dramatically.
With acid this powerful make sure you have the right
tools and meters to do the job. Mistakes and inappropriate
choice of tools and containers can be costly.
cheers,
rogerl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 02 Mar 92 17:20:17 CST
From: Darren Evans-Young <DARREN@UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject: Yeast Washing
Those wishing instructions on washing yeast should refer to
Homebrew Digest #731.
Darren
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 15:22:13 PST
From: rpeck@pure.com (Ray Peck)
Subject: non-lambic and non-Trappist Belgians
OK, I've finally kicked myself into asking about the avaiability
and semi-reproduction of Other Belgian Wonderful Stuff (other than
lambics and Chimay, for which there is a lot of info).
When I was in Belgium (beer trip) this past winter, I found that my
favorites were Rodenbach Gran Cru and Leifmann's. I also loved a bunch
of other things which were not lambics or Trappists (not that I don't
*love* lambics and Trappists. . .)
First thing is: is there anyplace in the country which can get Rodenbach?
I found a distributer which can get Leifmann's, but they don't handle
Rodenbach. Does Manneken Brussel in Austin handle any Belgians besides
Chimay? (and the easy stuff to get: Orval, Grimbergen, St. Sixtus,
Lindeman's, Duvel)
Now, to get down to the get down. . .
Assuming I can get fresh bottles to culture from (actually, have the
microbiologist woman who runs Fermentation Frenzy culture for me), has
anyone else here attempted repros of Rodenbach and Leifmann's? How
'bout a tasty, refreshing Hoegarden for those hot summer days?
Also, an alert for all you fans of Belgian beer: I picked up a Michael
Jackson book entitled "The Great Beers of Belgium", when I was in Brussels.
It was in English (also available in Flemish and Waloon). I've never
heard of it in the states. Is it available here? Highly recomended.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1992 19:24:09 -0500
From: trwagner@unixpop.ucs.indiana.edu
Subject: Thanks
Thanks to all of you who replied so quickly. I have found that
this hobby is one where secrets are shared and there are many who are
willing to help others out!
I think my best bet, from what you all have said, is for me to go
out and buy some REAL non-industrial type beer. I will select a few Ales
and Lagers and determine where my taste buds stand. Then, I will decide
what I want to make for my first kit. (Of course, I will save the bottles
for my first batch).
Thanks for all your help.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 16:41 PST
From: Daniel A Conners <Daniel_A_Conners%~WHC110@pnlg.pnl.gov>
Subject: Test of the -SMTPLink from Various Networked PC's
Will any members of the Mid-Columbia Zymurgy Association who
receive this message please contact me locally and let me
know of our success rate in utilizing the -SMTPLink via PC.
Some members of our organization plan on becoming active in
the daily dialog from their home work stations. Please
excuse our crude testing manner. We look foward to an
informative exchange of data. Thank you.
DAC IV
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 14:19:09 PST
From: gummitch@techbook.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Problems with long ferment--WYeast 1056
John C relates a problem with a loooooooooong fermentation using WYeast
1056. I'm a little relieved to read this, actually, since I've been
having the same problem. In fact, I've been having slow-starting prolems
with the yeast for several batches, but this is the first time it's gone
so slowly once fermentation began.
In my case, I split a 10-gallon batch into two carboys. The ale started
at 1.062. Carboy A is still obviously fermenting and is at 1.030. Carboy
B was clearing and looked done but was at 1.038. I roused it, warmed it
and added some wort/beer from Carboy A. We shall see. It has been three
weeks.! The beer tastes fine, just too sweet.
Dave Logsdon at WYeast says he will look at this yeast and determine if
he needs to go back to an earlier generation. If anyone else has
experienced problems like this with 1056, please e-mail me.
- --Jeff Frane (gummitch@techbook.com)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 92 19:42 MST
From: homer@drutx.att.com
Subject: BJCP upcoming exams
Montreal PQ
March 1992
Tom Robson (514) 287-7529
San Francisco
April 5, 1992
Byron Burch (707) 538-2528 - Russ Wigglesworth (415) 474-8126
Orlando, FL
April 11, 1992
Ed Greenlee (407) 277-3791
Rochester, New York
April 25, 1992
Stephen Hodos (716) 272-1108 272-3465
Memphis, TN
April 25, 1992
Chuck Skypeck (901) 685-2293 (901) 327-7191
Frankenmuth, MI
May 9, 1992
Bill Pfeiffer (313) 946-6573 (313) 285-7692
Woodland Hill CA (LA)
May 30, 1992
Marty Velas (310) 329-8881 (818) 831-3705
Orono, ME
June 20, 1992
Pat Baker (203) 227-8028
Exams are in the works for Millwaukee WI and Boulder CO,
when they are official I will post them.
Full details on the Beer Judge Certification Program are contained
in a booklet that can be requested by writing to:
AHA
PO Box 1679
Boulder, CO 80306
Attn: BJCP Administrator
Jim Homer
BJCP Co-Director
att!drutx!homer
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #835, 03/03/92
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