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HOMEBREW Digest #0754
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 91/11/04 03:13:45
HOMEBREW Digest #754 Mon 04 November 1991
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Sulfur Compounds in Beer (RE: Rotting Garbage?!?) (MIKE LIGAS)
coriander beer (Dave Platt)
Cranberry ale, again. (doug)
Re: Anybody Used a BrewCap? ("MR. DAVID HABERMAN")
Re: Re: EASYMASH (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Grolsch-like Bottles in Canada (Doug Latornell)
Re: off flavor (MIKE LIGAS)
HBD #729, excerpt about lightstruck beer (STROUD)
Re: Hops (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Re: best fermentation volume (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Archives (Ruth Mazo Karras)
Re: Whitbread Ale Yeast (KENYON)
STUFF (Jack Schmidling)
liquid yeast all puffed up (Bill Crick)
Re: Grolsch-oid bottles (Ross Parker)
Homebrewer's Gran Prix Results (chuck)
India pale ale recipe (Mark Stevens)
No end to Schmidling? (TSAMSEL)
Carbonation in General (John DeCarlo)
Re: Homebrew Laws (John DeCarlo)
headaches (Russ Gelinas)
Well water brewing (SEAN J CARON - BLDG 66-200 - X5-1170)
Mt. Hood hops (David_Odden@osu.edu)
re Siphons (Chip Hitchcock)
Re: Siphons (Chris Shenton)
Preventing oxidation and skunkiness (Mark Sandrock)
Grolsh style bottles (Tom Dimock)
Anchor Brewing (out of the woodwork...) <embreed@SFOVMIC1.vnet.ibm.com>
Wort Chillers, headaches (Jay Hersh)
bottle color, Jack who?? (Jay Hersh)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1991 13:25 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Sulfur Compounds in Beer (RE: Rotting Garbage?!?)
> From: Richard.Stueven@Corp.Sun.COM (Richard Stueven)
> Subject: Rotting Garbage?!?
> We brewed a batch of Dave Line's Newcastle Brown recipe on Sunday.
> When I got home from work yesterday afternoon, our apartment was filled
> with the smell of rotting garbage! A bit of olfactory detective work
> determined that the odor was coming not from the trash can, but from
> the bubbling airlock. Near the fermenter, the smell was strong enough
> to make your eyes water.
> ....
> Not that I'm worried, see, but what might that smell be? I suspect
> it's DMS-related, because there's a big "sulfur dioxide" component.
Hmmmm .... sounds like you have a contaminated batch. It's difficult to say for
sure without knowing a few other factors:
1. Did you boil the entire batch?
2. Did the boiled wort cool quickly?
3. What kind of yeast are you using and at what temperature?
4. Are sulfites used anywhere in the recipe?
Chances are it's your yeast that is causing the phenomenon. Sulfur containing
compounds like methionine and cysteine (two essential amino acids), sulfates,
sulfites and even free inorganic sulfur are all metabolized by yeast to produce
a vast array of molecules which can leave your beer smelling and/or tasting like
cabbage, onion and rotten garbage amongst other things. The most common of these
metabolites is H2S (Hydrogen sulfide) which smells like rotten eggs and is
detectable at 5-10 ppb depending on your personal degree of sensitivity.
Yeasts bearing mutations in gene products involved in sulfur metabolism can
produce overbearing amounts of H2S. Furthermore, your source of yeast could
have been contaminated with any of the bacterial strains which produce H2S.
SO2 (Sulfur dioxide) is probably not involved, at least directly. DMS (Dimethyl
sulfide) is more noticable in the flavour of the beer tasting much like corn
and/or onion. Yeast can produce DMS during fermentation but DMS problems are
usually a result of an insufficient boil and/or slow wort cooling. DMSO
(Dimethylsulfoxide) and SMM (S-methylmethionine) are two common DMS precursors
in wort. Their levels in malted barley and malt extract are a result of the
germination process during malting and are therefore out of your hands. A good
boil however will drive off any DMS (formed during malting and storage
from the precusors and during the boil from the breakdown of SMM). A quick
chilling of the hot wort also reduces DMS by reducing the time spent in the
temperature ranges required to produce DMS from SMM and SMM from methionine
(anyone out there know these temperatures?).
The good news is that all may not be lost. Most H2S and some DMS are driven off
or "scrubbed" by CO2 release during fermentation. I'd wait until bottling time
to decide whether or not to dispose of the batch unceremoniously. If I was in
your shoes, I'd do the following with my next batch:
i) sanitize everything anally.
ii) boil the wort vigourously for at least 1 hour.
iii) cool the wort quickly.
iv) change your yeast.
For a more complete picture of sulfur compounds in beer I'd highly recommend
the book "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 09:51:30 PST
From: dplatt@ntg.com (Dave Platt)
Subject: coriander beer
> Looking back on it, I would heat the extract before adding it to the
> beer in an attempt to drive of the alcohol. I wonder if this is
> where the bitterness came from...
The essential oil(s) in coriander seeds are quite volatile. I suspect that
if you heat the extract up enough to drive off the alcohol from the
vodka, you'll cause much of the coriander oils to evaporate. You'd end
up with only the water-soluble coriander fractions remaining in the
extract; most of the fragrance would be gone.
I'd suggest using a smaller amount of vodka, and crushing the coriander
seeds before steeping them. This may allow you to liberate most of the
coriander oils, without adding too much alcohol to the brew.
You could also try adding a few drops of commercially-extracted coriander
oil to the mix before bottling... I believe that it's possible to purchase
food-grade essential oils from a number of herb companies (Penn Herb in
Philadelphia comes to mind).
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 91 13:19 EST
From: doug@metabolism.bitstream.com
Subject: Cranberry ale, again.
Hello Again: Made a verision of the cranberry ale I posted
here a few weeks ago.... thanks for the tip on pectic enzyme
anyway... I modified the recipe a bit and added considerably
less maple syrup (because we really didn't enjoy the maple
taste last year) and now I'm sort of stuck with a beautiful
red, clear ale that is still in secondary but is EXTREMELY
bitter. I was considering two approaches to fix this
problem 1) make a small batch of sweet (light colored) wort
combine the two and repitch or 2) bottle as is and hope this
powerful bitterness subsides a bit... Any help would be
appreciated.
****************
doug@bitstream.com
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 91 10:10:00 PDT
From: "MR. DAVID HABERMAN" <habermand@afal-edwards.af.mil>
Subject: Re: Anybody Used a BrewCap?
Date sent: 31-OCT-1991 10:03:17.10 PDT
WOW!!! Deja Vu!!!
Alan Gerhardt asked about using BrewCaps. Last October and November there was
a discussion about using them. See Digests 523, 524, 525, 532, and 609.
On skunky/lightstruck beer:
In digest #729, Steve Stroud put in an excerpt of an excellent article on the
Photochemstry of Beer that discusses bottle color and why Miller can bottle in
clear bottles.
-
David A. Haberman
Email: habermand@afal-edwards.af.mil
BEER - "It's not just for breakfast anymore!"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 10:09:41 -0800
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!hpcsos.col.hp.com!hp-lsd.col.hp.com!hplabs!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Re: EASYMASH
Jack Schmidling writes (>> are Mr. Schmidling's quotes of Jeff Frane):
>>I think you should also do a little reading about wort chillers; you seem to
>>be under the misapprehension that it has to do with "clearing", by which I
>>presume you're referring to some form of cold break.
>
> Perhaps you should do a little reading of the HBD. I concluded after reading
> a number of articles posted by people who seemed to know what they were
> talking about, that chilling forces various things that tend to stay in
> suspension without it, to sink during secondary fermentation and promotes
> better clearing.
>
> If this is incorrect, I will not promote its use, as I have already concluded
> that worrying about contamination during the cooling period is, if not a
> momily, at least not worth worrying the beginner with.
It is semi correct. A counterflow wort chiller helps create a better cold
break which precipitates in the primary fermenter (I've only seen "secondary
fermentation" mentioned relating to Fruit Lambics where fruit is added to
a Lambic and the secondary fermentation is of the fruit). An immersion
chiller, the kind I use, has the added benefit of precipitating the cold
break in the kettle which allows you to get the sweet wort off the trub
sooner and reduces trub in the primary. Both types of chillers have the
benefit of allowing you to pitch sooner and thus giving wild yeasts and
bacteria less time to infect the beer. This gives your cultured yeast
a competative advantage. The one glimmer of truth I found in this part
of your post is that I too wouldn't worry a beginner with a wort chiller,
but instead would warn him/her that they should cover their kettle while
the sweet wort is cooling to minimize the chance of contamination. I
think that after five batches, however, they could start thinking about
a wort chiller, because after five batches, you're hooked and might as
well begin collecting equipment.
While on the subject, I'd like to add a couple more reasons that I feel the
immersion chiller is better than the counterflow type:
1. cleaning is easier on an immersion chiller and you can see how clean
the surface that contacts the sweet wort is,
2. sanitation is easier - all you have to do is dunk it in the boiling
wort before turning on the cooling water (you may also be able to sanitize
a counterflow similarly, but intuatively, I suspect that by the time
the hot wort is at the exit end of the chiller, even with the cooling
water off, it has dropped below 180F which does little to sanitize the
tubing, and
3. I, personally, would not want to start a siphon (with my mouth (besides
the sanitation risk) or by other means (turkey baster, etc.)) on a 170+ F
liquid!
>>If I may say so, I feel that your desire to make brewing beer easy and
>>inexpensive is commendable, but it seems at times that you are more
>>interested in hastily debunking traditional brewing practices than in
>>achieving this goal.
>
> It's all part of the learning process. How can I simplify a process without
> questioning the accepted methodologies?
I, personally, think that Mr. Schmidling is more interested in gaining
notoriety, validating his self-proclaimed expertise in homebrewing and
making money, than making brewing beer easy and inexpensive. I'm almost
conviced that Mr. Schmidling knew very little about brewing before joining
this forum. Twenty years of brewing vinegar does not an expert make.
>>And please note Dick Dunn's comment in re: oxidation and cardboard (not
>>cider) and the excellent commentary from Rad Equipment and JaH.
>
> And just what do I do with the "excellent commentaries" that claim that
> oxidation produces cidery beer?
I don't recall anyone but you, Mr. Schmidling, associating oxidation with
cidery beer.
Those of you who know me and have read my comments in this Digest, know
that only on one other occasion have I been so rough. I feel that Mr.
Schmidling has caused the tone of this forum to change. I'm now spending
more time contradicting him than asking or answering questions. Please
stop with the ad campaign for your videos and stating your opinions as
if they were facts! If this Digest was only experts and no beginners were
reading it, I would just ignore you. However, there are beginners here
and I'm not going to let you fill their heads with incorrect information.
On second thought, maybe this exchange of *is* a useful way to debunk
common homebrewing fallacies. Keep those fallacies coming Jack, we're
ready for you.
Al.
korz@ihlpl.att.com
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 91 10:58 -0800
From: Doug Latornell <latornel@unixg.ubc.ca>
Subject: Grolsch-like Bottles in Canada
In #752 someone asked about the alleged availablility of brown Grolsch-like
bottles in Canada. Both of the homebrew shops that I frequent sell them:
Wine-Art, 3429 West Broadway, Vancouver, BC, 604-731-4739
Pacific Coast Vintners and Brewers, 3419 Kinsway, Vancouver, BC
604-433-8918
If memory serves, the price at Pacific is ~C$16/dozen (C$1 ~ US$0.89) and the
price at Wine-Art was marginally higher. I don't know what either of these
outfit's policies are on mail orders and shipping to the US.
I hestitate to mention it, given the ongoing glass/plastic contraversy, but
both of these places also sell 0.5 and 1.0 litre PET plastic bottles with
reusable, screw on lids (the lids are good for about 4 uses, like the
Grolsch rubber seals). I've been using some of these PET bottles (along with
come Grolsch-like bottles and some regular crown cap ones) for almost a year
now with no evidence (to my pallet and those of my friends) of off flavours.
No problems with holding carbonation either. If anything, the PET bottles
are more reliable than the crown capped ones.
==================
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Doug Latornell <latornel@unixg.ubc.ca>
CAM/Robotics Lab --- Mech. Eng. Dept. University of British Columbia
Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1991 14:01 EDT
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Re: off flavor
> From: William Boyle (CCL-L) <wboyle@PICA.ARMY.MIL>
> Subject: off flavor
> I have a slight problem, two of my last three batches have turned out
> with a, as my brew partner calls it, "bandaid" flavor, I think it's a
> bitter flavor but not a hop bitterness.
"Band-aidlike" or "medicinal" off-flavours are the result of phenolics. Given
the recipes you provided we can rule out oversparging and boiling of grains.
Other possible causes are:
1) brewers yeast contaminated with wild yeast and/or bacteria.
2) water supply contaminated with wild yeast or bacteria.
3) highly chlorinated tap water used for brewing.
4) non-food grade plastic used as fermentor or tubing, etc.
5) microbial contamination from unsanitized brewing equipment.
Are any of these applicable in your case?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1991 15:32 EST
From: STROUD%GAIA@leia.polaroid.com
Subject: HBD #729, excerpt about lightstruck beer
The excerpt from the article about lightstruck beer that I posted to HBD
appeared in:
HOMEBREW Digest #729 Mon 23 September 1991
Steve Stroud
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 12:13:47 -0800
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!hpcsos.col.hp.com!hp-lsd.col.hp.com!hplabs!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Hops
John asks:
>I would like some information on where to acquire some hops root cuttings,
>particularly Saaz, Cascade, and Fuggles. I realize this is probably an untimely
>question but we are getting booted off of your excellent DL soon.
I bought mine from Freshops (36180 King's Valley Hwy, Philomath, OR, 97370)
whose phone is: (503)929-2736. They did not have Saaz, but I believe they
have strains related to both Cascade and Fuggles. Planting is usually done
in the March-April-May timeframe, depending on your lattitude, so call them
in March.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 12:03:47 -0800
From: hpfcmr.fc.hp.com!hplabs!hpcsos.col.hp.com!hp-lsd.col.hp.com!hplabs!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: best fermentation volume
Marc Tamsky asks:
>Second Question:
>
>When fermenting in a 5 gal. glass carboy whats the best volume to ferment with?
>
>I want to leave enough room for the head.
I don't... purposely. What that proceedure is called is the "blowoff
method" of fermentation. It's merits have been argued in the HBD, but
I believe it makes the end product taste better, so I continue to use
it. Papazian says that the krauesen contains fusel oils (I've seen
fusel alcohols elsewhere) which some say contribute to hangovers. The
most graphic proof I have for using the blowoff method is to challenge
anyone to drink a glass of blowoff. YUK! Just sniffing it is enough to
guarantee my continued support of this proceedure.
I fill the carboy to within 1 inch of the bottom of the stopper and use
an oversized (3/4 inch) plastic tube in a drilled-out stopper, running
down to a gallon jug 1/4 filled with water. Use an oversized tube to
prevent clogging and carboy geysers. Some even use a 1.5 inch tube and
no stopper:
Dave Wiley writes:
>Some other members of the club and I have switched to 1.5 inch diameter
>blow off tube. It's just the perfect size to fit into the neck of a
>carboy plus you can clean it with a bottle brush. I have had great
>success using it thus far even with copious quantities of blow off.
>Further, I've never even heard of anyone getting one clogged. The
>tubing is available from:
> Alternative Beverage
> 627-A Minuet Lane
> Charlotte, NC 28217
> 1-800-365-2739 (except NC)
>I fear that the yeast will stop
>working because of the high alcohol concentration if I have a low-volume
>ferment.
>
>I know this isn't a FAQ but, is this dumb?
>Are the alcohol concentrations in a primary ferment not even close to
>the max working concentrations for yeast?
I don't think they are even close. I've used more than 1.8 lbs of extract
per gallon in some batches and had no problems with Wyeast (your milage
may vary, but I don't think you need to worry).
>BTW I used the ale yeast that came with a Mountmellick Export Ale kit.
>I fermented with about 3.5gal and added the rest when racking to the secondary.
>After 1.5 weeks in secondary, I primed with 1 cup corn sugar and bottled.
>3 weeks later the batch still has a sugary taste but carbonation is ok.
I haven't tried Mountmellick, but some extracts do have more unfermentable
sugars than others and the sweetness may be due to that. There are two
things I did notice in your last paragraph that I'd like to comment on:
1. When topping up the secondary (at which time the yeast has certainly
completed its resparatory phase and can no longer use dissolved oxygen)
you should pre-boil and cool your water, being careful not to aerate
your topping-up water. The boiling will both kill nasties and drive off
dissolved oxygen which would subsequently oxidize your beer. You may
have done this, but I figured it was worth a mention for anyone who may
be contemplating a similar proceedure.
2. You hadn't mentioned how much was "the rest" so I assumed your batch
size was 5 gallons after topping-up. If so, since this is an ale,
1 cup of corn sugar may be a little much, but this is nit-pick based
upon the "normal" carbonation level of what is appropriate for the
ale *style*.
Al.
korz@ihlpl.att.com
------------------------------
Date: 31 Oct 91 16:12:24 EST
From: Ruth Mazo Karras <RKARRAS@PENNSAS.UPENN.EDU>
Subject: Archives
Could someone please post the proper syntax to "get" files from the archive at
mthvax.cs.miami.edu? I seem to see files with names like Sep 23 03:10 729 and
cannot translate that into name, filetype and the like. In addition, is there
a way of viewing an index via FTP, or do I have to get the index to see it?
Chris Karras--RKarras@PennSAS.UPenn.EDU
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1991 17:29 EDT
From: KENYON%MOE.ERE-NET.COM@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: Re: Whitbread Ale Yeast
>My ginger beer was fermenting for about a week very nicely. As of
>yesterday, it seemed to have stopped. The SG had dropped from (about)
>1.070 to 1.020. I am using Whitbread Ale Yeast. Taking a risk, I
>rousted the yeast this morning; I don't know if that had any effect
>yet.
I too have recently had problems with Whitbread Ale Yeast sticking at
around 1.020. A combination of loose dry hopping and adding more
yeast from a starter (generic brand that accompanied a beer kit) helped
get things going again. I seem to recall having found this yeast to be
fairly attenuative in the past. Has anyone else had problems with stuck
(and or prematurely stopped) fermentations using W.A. Yeast lately?
-Chuck-
*** Schmidling, Schm-Schmidling, Big Deal! ***
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 13:06 CST
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: STUFF
To: Homebrew Digest
Fm: Jack Schmidling
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
> I'd like to throw in a comment about Jack S. and his video, and then...
The problem, Jack, is that you are making a how-to video, for general
consumption, so to speak, of a wide range of people, with all the inherent
differences in their tasting perceptions. ....If you're not just out to make
a quick buck, and you really want to help people make good beer, then your
*demonstrated* technique should impart a minimum of off flavors.
I agree wholehartedly. Just two points. First of all, I am not a stubborn
Kraut, just a Kraut. All the errors that have been called to my attention
have been fixed, acknowledged or bandaided around and the oxidation
discussion, at this point, is academic.
Secondly, the fact that it is being discussed and "promoted" on this forum
gives the false impression that people such as us represent my target
audience. When I began production, I did not know that HBD, rec.brewing,
Zymurgy or even brew clubs existed. I used to see the owner of the local
brew shop standing outside his shop watching cars go by, every time I passed
and I just assumed the hobby was as unpopular as it ever.
Aside from the valuable info I have received from the above sources, I have
no delusions of selling videos to most of these people for anything other
than cult entertainment.
My target was and still is all those people out there that do not even know
that one can make drinkable beer at home. Let's face it, most of them like
Bud. How can the subtleties discussed in these fora possibly be of interest
to those people? The "Easy Beer" process described in "BREW IT AT HOME"
makes beer that any beginner can be proud of. My philosophy is to get them
hooked and they will find and use these other sources in due time.
From: scott@gordian.com (Scott Murphy)
>My roommate and I brewed a coriander beer a couple of months ago.
Initially, it was undrinkable due to an intense bitterness in the
aftertase.
My wife was thumbing through a seed catalog last night and ran across a blurb
touting coriander as a cure for flatulence. Don't give up your research, you
may be on to something.
From: Tom Dimock <RGG@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
> Good, better best,
> Never let it rest,
> Till your good is better,
> And your better's best.
>Knowing the difference is an essential part of the process (for me at
least).
Hanging in my living room is my motto:
NOTHING GREAT IS LIGHTLY WON
I might add, in line with my above comments, that great things are usually
won in small steps and "BREW IT AT HOME" is simply one small step for
beginners but a giant leap for brewkind. :)
From: wbt@cbema.att.com
>> Glass, regardless of color, stops most UV.
>So why do I have to buy a special UV filter for my camera, which has a
glass lens? (I'm not being a smart-ass, either; maybe you're right, in
which case I'm being ripped off.)
It is entirely possible that you are being ripped off but more importantly,
does it work? The other possiblity is the fact that you missed the word
"most". Simple glass absorbs over 95% of the incident UV. Ever try to tan
inside, through a window? A clear glass filter can be honestly sold as a UV
filter because it will indeed, attenuate UV by 95% but if it goes through
several lenses later, one must really wonder.
Every wonder why "sun lamps" are so expensive? There's no magic in the light
source, the cost comes from the fact that the envelop must be made out of
quartz to minimize the losses.
> Also, why does the dashboard of my car become slowly faded and cracked
from (I'm told) UV exposure, despite having the windshield above it?
I would be more suspicious of the intense heat but there still is that 5%,
you know.
js
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1991 16:21:53 -0500
From: bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick@gatech.edu (Bill Crick)
Subject: liquid yeast all puffed up
Regarding the question about a prematurely puffed p and ready to
explode liquid yeast, Mev ( may they RIP) covered tis on their instructions.
They stated that if you put it in the fridge, then you should make
a yeast starter with it when you remove it from the fridge, before pitching
it.
I found a Maibock recipe in Greg Noonan's "Brewwing Lager Beers".
He lists Cara-pale malt? Is this the same as Cara-pils malt?
Bill Crick Brewius, Ergo Summersgone!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 17:27:27 PST
From: parker@mprgate.mpr.ca (Ross Parker)
Subject: Re: Grolsch-oid bottles
Hi...
There's a chain of stores in Canada (in B.C., anyway) that has the brown
Grolsch-style bottles (they know them as 'easy-cap' bottles, I think...).
Here's an address for those that want to try mail-ordering (don't know if
they do mail order or not...)
Wine-Arts Inc
3429 West Broadway,
Vancouver, B.C.
phone (604) 731-4739
The bottles are exactly the same as Grolsch bottles, but they have a plastic
stopper (using the same washer) instead of the ceramic one.
Last I checked, they were *very* expensive ($1.36 Canadian *each*).
I lucked out and found someone who was quitting their brewing hobby, and
sold me over nine dozen mixed Grolsch (green and brown) and Kulmbacher
(similar cap system, 500ml brown bottle) bottles, plus a few more with the
same capping system but unidentifyable origin (12 oz. bottles), plus
carboy, etc, etc, all for $40... I laughed all the way home...
It pays to keep your eyes in the newspaper classified section... I've seen
lots of others selling used brewing equipment.
Hope this helps...
Ross
------------------------------
Date: Thu Oct 31 21:46:52 1991
From: synchro!chuck@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Homebrewer's Gran Prix Results
On Sunday October 20th, the second approximately annual Homebrewer's Gran Prix
was held at the Malibu Gran Prix track in Houston, Texas. The first GP was
during the AHA conference in Oakland last year. This year's event was an
official part of the Dixie Cup.
I was defending my title as "America's fastest homebrewer". Since they do
things bigger in Texas, the title was elevated to "the world's fastest
homebrewer".
I didn't record the official times, but they will be printed in the next
Brewsletter Urquell. I do remember the general results:
Chuck Cox world's fastest homebrewer (54.11 seconds)
Steve Stroud Meffa's/Polaroid's fastest homebrewer
Darryl Goss world's fastest professional brewer
Chris Todd Texas' fastest homebrewer
Sarah White world's fastest female homebrewer
Dave Messersmith world's fastest homebrewer over 6' tall
If you want a title, show up at the next Homebrewer's Gran Prix.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chuck Cox chuck%synchro@uunet.uu.net
Hopped/Up Racing Team uunet!synchro!chuck
thank god for women with bad taste in men
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 91 22:06:18 EST
From: Mark Stevens <stevens@stsci.edu>
Subject: India pale ale recipe
This is my contribution to the 'best recipe' discussion. It's an India
Pale Ale that I've made twice. Both times it turned out fine. Nicely
hoppy.
Striped Cat I.P.A.
6 pounds pale dry extract
1 pound amber dry extract
1 pound crystal malt
3/4 pound toasted pale malt
1/4 pound pale malt
1 ounce Bullion hops (8.2 alpha)
1/2 ounce Brewers Gold hops (7.5 alpha)
1 ounce Cascade hops (4.2 alpha)
2 tsp. gypsum
1/4 tsp. Irish moss
1 pack Wyeast #1098
1/2 cup corn sugar for priming
handful steamed oak chips
Procedure is that described by Papazian...steep grains, boil 1 hour
(boil Brewers Gold and Bullion). Remove from heat and add the
cascades. Primary ferment: 4 days, secondary ferment 10 days.
Prime and bottle.
O.G., 1.068, F.G., 1.020
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1991 7:01:00 -0500 (EST)
From: TSAMSEL@ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: No end to Schmidling?
Alas, we still kick Jack around so. To paraphrase an old jokey postcard:
HE: Do you like Schmidling?
SHE: I don't know, I've never Schmiddled.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Friday, 1 Nov 1991 09:27:30 EST
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Carbonation in General
Another thought off the top of my head. (Oh no!)
We all condemn high levels of carbonation, because the
"gassiness" of such beer will tend to make it difficult to
appreciate the other tastes in the beer.
However, we all also know that in many parts of Germany, they
take at least 7 minutes to pour a beer, to get rid of that gassy
taste (I believe).
So, is there some theory that says that overcarbonating your
beer, then pouring it to get lots of foam and drive off the
carbonation, can be somehow better than not overcarbonating in
the first place? Is it particular to the lager style? Or is it
just tradition to brew this way, forcing the pouring method? Or
is it something else, such as being useful during the extended
lagering stage or somesuch?
In any case, I think I will try the long, foamy pouring method
for beers that taste overcarbonated.
Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
(or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet: 1:109/131
------------------------------
Date: Friday, 1 Nov 1991 09:29:51 EST
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Laws
>From: darrylri@microsoft.com
>>I know there are laws in California governing the amounts that
>>an individual can produce. (i.e. Head of household 200 gal
>>or individuals 100 per year.) What are the age requirements to
>>homebrew? Is it legal to ferment your own alcoholic beverages
>>under the legal drinking age in your state?
>Many states defer entirely to the federal laws, which have the
>volume limits you mention. The federal laws also state that a
>brewer must be over 21. It is not unheard of that minors might
>get away with brewing their own as long as they remain discreet
>about it, although the Falcons had to discourage a young fellow
>who was obviously underage once, from attending the meetings.
My copy of the federal bill that was made into law states that
only adults are exempt from the brewing taxes and such. Here is
a small quote to hopefully expand on Darryl's answer:
"(e) BEER FOR PERSONAL OR FAMILY USE.-- Subject to
regulations prescribed by the Secretary any adult may,
^^^^^
without payment of tax, produce beer for personal or family
use and not for sale. The aggregate amount of beer exempt
from tax under this subsection with respect to any
household shall not exceed--
"(l) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are 2
or more adults in such household, or
"(2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is
only 1 adult in such household.
For purposes of this subsection, the term 'adult' means an individual
who has attained 18 years of age or the minimum age, if any, estab-
lished by law applicable in the locality in which the household is
situated for individuals to whom beer may be sold, whichever is
greater."
I suspect that with the recent drive to make the drinking age 21
in all states, that just going with the 21 age limit is safe. I
did want to emphasize that there is no "100 gallons per
individual". There is only a limit based on a household.
Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
(or John.DeCarlo@f131.n109.z1.fidonet.org)
Fidonet: 1:109/131
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1991 9:39:06 -0500 (EST)
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: headaches
Just FYI, it turns out I've come down with a strange flu-like bug, with all
the body aches, including headaches, so the lack of blow-off from my stout
batch may have absolutely nothing to do with my headaches. Has anyone come
up with what exactly (other than alcohol) causes hangover symtoms? Fer
instance, what is it about champagne that gives some people headaches?
Re. Jack etc.: It seems there are two camps. One thinks that any new
brewer is a good thing. The other thinks that a new brewer of "Dubious
Quality" (TM) beer may not be a good thing. We're not gonna agree (unless
we can get James Baker to help), so let's just move on. I would agree to
drop the word "momily" though.
Russ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 10:32:44 EST
From: SEAN J CARON - BLDG 66-200 - X5-1170 <CARONS@TBOSCH.dnet.ge.com>
Subject: Well water brewing
Good morning, ladies and gents!
I have been getting the HBD for about two months now, and in that time there
have been discussions on just about every ingredent and process used in brewing
with one very notable exception - water.
In HBD 751, Martin Lodahl writes:
> I really began this batch about a week
> before brewing day by boiling my brewing water. I have about 750ppm
> of hardness in my well water (this changes dramatically, I've
> discovered), and much of it, apparently calcium carbonate,
> precipitates out when boiled.
I too have very hard well water, as well as a high degree of dissolved oxygen
which gives the water a pleasant but short lived effervescence ( i live just
outside of Saratoga, NY, famous for its horse racing and bubbly mineral water).
In addition to calcium carbonate, i have a large amount of dissolved iron and
other minerals ( not bacteria, thankfully!). For everyday use i have a
water-softener which strips most of this stuff out and replaces it with salt.
In the past, (on the advise of my local brewing supply store owner)
i have simply bypassed the softner when i started cleaning,
and by the time i needed water to brew, i was drawing nice hard water
directly from the well. This method has produced some good to exceptional
(IMHO :-) ) brews (>15 extract/adjunct batches, but no lagers).
In the spirit of
"Good, better best,
Never let it rest,
Till your good is better,
And your better's best." (Tom Dimock's father, HDB 752)
I'd like to have a little more control over exactly what is going into my
pride and joy. Should I be boiling all my brewing water ahead of time?
Will that remove most of the suspended minerals? (as well as all that nice
dissolved oxygen?) What's the best way to do this (boil and then rack the water
off anything that comes out of suspension?) I assume i would then have to treat
the water to bring it back up to the correct hardness.
Let's hear from some of you other well-water brewers! What do you do?
Sean J. Caron
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 10:39:43 EST
From: David_Odden@osu.edu <dodden@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Mt. Hood hops
I've gotten hooked on Mt. Hood hops -- and now the supplier tells our local
homebrew store may not carry it anymore. So, either (a) does anyone know of a
store/supplier who does carry these hops or (b) what hop(s) come closest to
Mt. Hoods.
Dave Odden
[Remember, UNIX is homophonous with the plural of eunuch]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 09:55:07 EST
From: cjh@vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re Siphons
Dave Rose <CHOLM@HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU> writes:
>$2 you can get a rubber carboy top that has two holes, one for your racking
tube and one to blow in.
I tried this on the advice of a local supplier; I've never gotten a cap
that could hold in the air pressure needed to push the wort over the crook
of a racking tube (people who have heard me sing can attest to my lung
power, however misdirected). It's possible these caps only work (for siphon
starting) with the (relatively squat) 5-gallon carboy; I have only 6's and
3's---the 3's in particular seem to have slightly smaller lips than the
caps are built for, and I've had to make some plastic washers to persuade
cap and carboy to make enough of a seal to make gas come out of the
fermentation lock instead of around the edges of the cap.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 11:23:55 EST
From: Chris Shenton <chris@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Siphons
On Thu, 31 Oct 1991 11:12 EST, Dave Rose <CHOLM@HUBIO2.HARVARD.EDU> said:
Dave> For about $2 you can get a rubber carboy top that has two holes, one
Dave> for your racking tube and one to blow in. ... Of course you've got
Dave> to sanitize the tube, the water, your thumbs, etc.
... Your mouth, lungs, lips, etc...
Seems to me blowing air from your lungs and mouth into the carboy isn't
much better than getting your mouth over the racking tube. I'd think you'd
introduce all kinds of ugliness into the wort.
Perhaps I should try an experiment with two wort-agar plates:
1. Sucking-siphon-simulation: `kiss' or lick the agar
2. Pressure-start-simulation: breath heavily on the agar
(awfully erotic, isn't it? :-)
Let sit a couple days and watch the critters grow!
Others have mentioned the technique I use: fill the siphon with water, hold
the two ends up, cover the outlet hole, immerse the pickup side in the
wort, lower the outlet side below the wort level and release the outlet
hole. You have to empty the first-runnings (water) out of the hose, of
course. Easy, relatively clean (easier to bleach your finger than your mouth).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 10:54:06 CST
From: Mark Sandrock <sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Preventing oxidation and skunkiness
Miller mentions that the use of DME to prime beer will minimize the amount
of oxygen still present in the bottled beer, as it will be utilized by the
yeast. He also states that this does not take place in glucose (corn sugar)
primed beer, due to the Crabtree effect. There are potential disadvantages
to DME priming, however, in particular Miller mentions (additional) esters
in the final product, if the second fermentation is at warm temperatures.
As for skunkiness, I've always read that fermenting beer should be kept
in the dark. It's easy to keep a brown plastic garbage bag over the carboy,
and you can still pull it up for a quick peek as needed. It may be that
any mercaptans formed are expelled in the ferment, but when dealing with
ppb levels as here, why take chances with it?
Cheers,
Mark Sandrock
- --
UIUC Chemical Sciences Computer Center Internet: sandrock@aries.scs.uiuc.edu
505 S. Matthews Ave., Urbana, IL 61801 Voice: 217-244-0561
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 91 11:52:30 EST
From: Tom Dimock <RGG@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Grolsh style bottles
The manufacturer of new brown 16 oz. Grolsh-style bottles is
E.Z. Cap Bottle Distributors
4224 Chippewa Road N.W.
Calgary, Alberta, Canada T2L 1A3
(403) 282-5972
Their ad in Zymurgy makes it sound like you have to buy through a
retail outlet. I haven't seen anyone who carries them...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Nov 91 09:08:41 PST
From: Emily Breed (out of the woodwork...) <embreed@SFOVMIC1.vnet.ibm.com>
Subject: Anchor Brewing
According to Herb Caen's column in the October 30 issue of the *San Francisco
Chronicle*, Fritz Maytag will be speaking November 7 at the Commonwealth
Club, on "Sense and Nonsense About Beer." Followed by a... wine reception.
(Okay, whatever...)
Emily Breed
(Disclaimer: IBM doesn't even know I *have* opinions, let alone agree with
them... :-) )
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 91 15:02:56 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: Wort Chillers, headaches
Jack Sez:
> Perhaps you should do a little reading of the HBD. I concluded after reading
> a number of articles posted by people who seemed to know what they were
> talking about, that chilling forces various things that tend to stay in
> suspension without it, to sink during secondary fermentation and promotes
> better clearing.
>
> If this is incorrect, I will not promote its use, as I have already concluded
> that worrying about contamination during the cooling period is, if not a
> momily, at least not worth worrying the beginner with.
Well Jack, there are 2 types of wort chillers. Counter-flow wort chillers
acheive a very fast cold-break. This has 2 effects, one that various
precipitates form and will drop out of solution as a result of a quick change
from hot to cold, and two that the beer is ready to pitch more quickly allowing
the yeast a better jump on the bacteria.
The immersion chiller acheives objective number 2 well, but is less effective
at creating the cold-break effect (though not completely ineffective) since it
takes a longer period of time for the wort to chill with an immersion cooler.
In counterflow chillers all the wort that passes through the chiller acheives
the same instantaneous drop in temperature. In the immersion chiller the whole
wort cools at the same time and the same rate (slow, but substantially faster
than with no chiller).
My impression is that most people use immersion chillers since they are easier
to clean and less expensive. I am also under the impression that the benefit
that a majority of people would cite as being the most important in a wort
chiller is the accelerated cooling of the wort to allow for quick pitching of
the yeast.
Jack again:
> And just what do I do with the "excellent commentaries" that claim that
> oxidation produces cidery beer?
Who are these from?? I don't recall seeing any like this.
Again I point you to George Fix's book (Principles of Brewing Science) and to
the Zymurgy Troubleshooters issue.
Russ G sez:
>I've been drinking my latest, a stout, and I get a headache from it. I was
>going to ask some questions about it, but I just realized that this is the
>first batch in a new 7-gallon carboy, and it did not blow-off! All my other
>batches were in 5-gallons c's and blew off crud. This is the only batch
>that has ever given me headaches. Cause and effect?
Well Russ, I switched to carbouys & blowoff tubes a few years back and while
not all my pre-blow-ff beers were headache beers, I never get headaches from
homebrew now. So call it a momily, but this brewer's opinion is that the use of
blow-off tubes has reduced whatever headache causing compounds previously arose
in my beers.
Tom D sez:
>To Jack: The reason I'm trying to learn to recognize subtle flaws in
>beer is not "to learn to dislike them". What I'm aiming at is to be
>able to be able to identify the flaws in a very good beer, so that
>next time I can come a little closer to making a GREAT beer. I have
>no idea whether I'll succeeed, but I figure I have a much better chance
>at a great beer if know why my current batch isn't great than if I just
>keep changing random factors, hoping someday I'll get it right.
>Probably an artifact of a scientifically oriented upbringing combined
>with a strong perfectionist streak, but that's why I do it.
Perfectly phrased Tom!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Nov 91 15:40:03 EST
From: Jay Hersh <hersh@expo.lcs.mit.edu>
Subject: bottle color, Jack who??
Geez Darryl,
I always use Molson's for doing the light struck beers at our DR. Beer sessions.
One year I tried using Labatts in the Brown Bottles, left it in the window for
a week, nothing!
So since then I always use the Molson's in the green bottle.
The Golden is the best, and I always pop open a sealed case in the walk in
cooler when the store clerk isn't looking so I know I'm getting bottles that
haven't yet been light damaged.
I'm sure the hoppiness of the beer being used has some effect, hoppier beers
probbaly skunk better than less hoppy beers.
Of course even when I use brown bottles for my homebrew I always store it in
cases in the dark. Just because brown bottles screen more of the damaging ligth
wavelengths, they still don't screen all of them , so it's only a matter of
time until the beer gets light damaged, unless you keep it out of the light.
Norm Pyle sez:
>All the anti-Schmid-etism around here is starting to wear thin. I don't
>necessarily agree with _all_ that Jack says (read he says a LOT), but I do
>agree with some of his motives. If he manages to get another homebrewer
>hooked on brewing, who would have otherwise skipped it, I think that's good.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
This is an issue I dealt with years ago working for Dan Hennessy at his store.
I advocated giving new brewers lower expectations that they woiuld make OK beer
early on and could then learn to make great beer. The reason behind doing this
was because many new brewers can quickly become turned off to brewing by making
bad batches early on. Even if it was small easily correctable mistakes new
brewers are very susceptible to early discouragement. That is why it is
important to get them off to a good start. Overemphasis on sanitation is IMHO a
good thing in that while it may dissuade some newcomers, it results in better
results for those not discouraged, and therefore less of a dropout rate among
new brewers. So my personal feeling based on a lot of years of getting new
people into brewing is that it is very counterproductive to not encourage "good
brewing practices" even if they are a little anal retentive. As the new brewers
gain more experience they learn to modify procedures to suit their needs, but
all the ones I've known were very wary of bad results early on and having those
first few batches come out good was important to keeping them with the hobby.
My personal opinion of Jack's position is that while he seems interested in
spreading the word about homebrewing (very commendable) he seems to be
propagating a too rosy scenario to newcomers that IMHO will lead to new brewers
who run into early dissapointments due to too high expectations, and
subsequently let the hobby drop and the equipment collect dust in the closet.
His dissmisal of the very same practices that helped myself and many other
brewers grow to become experienced brewers with an ability to make good beers
and a willingness to teach others to do the same just doesn't sit well with me,
nor many others I know.
I don't think anyone is well served by the creation of large numbers of poorly
informed newcomers. The "momily" I always tell new brewers is "It is as easy to
make bad beer as it is to make good beer," this seems to server well to temper
people's expectations and keep them involved in brewing as a long term goal,
and not a "tried-it-once-didn't-like-it" phenomena.
- JaH
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #754, 11/04/91
*************************************
-------
