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HOMEBREW Digest #0712
HOMEBREW Digest #712 Thu 29 August 1991
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Homebrew Digest #711 (August 28, 1991) (m.l. leighton)
Re: Homebrew Digest #694 (August 05, 1991) (m.l. leighton)
Warm (hot) weather brewing (TSAMSEL)
What does your club do? ("William F. Pemberton")
stainless/aluminum kegs (adietz)
Yeast Analogy (Paul Bigelow)
Re: Homebrew Digest #711 (August 28, 1991) (HERREN)
Re : heresies (Conn Copas)
Oatmeal Stout (chris)
Re: Homebrew Digest #711 (August 28, 1991) (John E. Greene)
state limits on alcohol content in beer.
RE: decoction mashing, lauter tun temp. (Bill Dyer)
Aluminum Wort chiller (John Otten)
Frozen and frothing Pepsi bottles (Stephen Russell)
Yeast autolysis / DMS and quick chilling (Ken Giles)
molasses (Brian Bliss)
DMS (Thomas Socha)
bottling yeast? (GERMANI)
Re: An interesting epitaph... (Chris Shenton)
cultured dregs (C.R. Saikley)
all-grain wheat brewing (Bryan Gros)
re an interesting epitaph (Chip Hitchcock)
Too sweet? More hops! (Frank Tutzauer)
Northwest Ale Festival (C.R. Saikley)
Screw-on caps (Carl West)
Subscription Cancelation ("Norbert Vicente")
What's the scoop on the new NYC brewpub? (Stephen Russell)
Uncompressed Cat's Meow (Laura Blomme)
Sassafras (Jack Schmidling)
Re: Yeast infection? (agar plate culture) (MIKE LIGAS)
Send submissions to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues!]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 19:53:04 +1000
From: scs858r@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (m.l. leighton)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #711 (August 28, 1991)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 19:55:41 +1000
From: scs858r@monu6.cc.monash.edu.au (m.l. leighton)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #694 (August 05, 1991)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1991 8:07:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: TSAMSEL@ISDRES.ER.USGS.GOV
Subject: Warm (hot) weather brewing
OK. I should have asked this in June, but here goes. Aside from the various
cooling strategies discussed in this forum, is there a yeast that behaves
better in the summer. Since they brew Guiness in Nigeria and brew a lot in the
American tropics (as well as SE asia and 'Strylia), do they use a different
yeast or do they AC the entire brewery?
I brewed 3 batches over the entire summer. None in August. They were drinkable
but not up to my usual cooler weather standard. All were pale ales (mjas o menos)
done with London Wyeast. Is (are) there better yeast for the hot times of the
year?
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Wed Aug 28 08:58:43 1991
From: "William F. Pemberton" <wfp5p@euclid.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Subject: What does your club do?
I am looking for ideas for my local club meetings. Our meetings seem to
have degraded into taste everybodies homebrew free for all. This, of
course, isn't all bad, but I would like more!
I would really appreciate any ideas, suggestions, etc. If you will, just
gimme an idea of what your club does at meetings.
Thanks!
Bill Pemberton
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 1991 9:19 EDT
From: afd@hera.cc.bellcore.com (adietz)
Subject: stainless/aluminum kegs
Not all kegs are created equal. Period. My brewpot is a Bass Ale keg.
100% aluminum ('twas a gift) - but: teflon-coated on the inside.
-------------
Clean-up's a breeze. Your mileage may vary.
Thread extender,
-A Dietz
Bellcore, Morristown
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 9:35:56 EDT
From: Paul Bigelow <bigelow@waterloo.hp.com>
Subject: Yeast Analogy
Letter to the editor of Probe Post (Pollution Probe magazine) Summer 1991
by Farley Mowat.
"On my 70th birthday in May of this year I was asked how I felt about
mankind's prospects. This is my reply.
We are behaving like yeasts in a brewer's vat, multiplying mindlessly while
greedily consuming the substance of a finite world. If we continue to
imitate the yeasts we will perish as they perish, having exhausted our
resources and poisoned ourselves in the lethal brew of our own wastes.
Unlike the yeasts, we have a choice. What will it be?"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 09:27 EDT
From: HERREN%midd.cc.middlebury.edu@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #711 (August 28, 1991)
regarding repitching your yeast Russ, I haven't actually tried bottling the
previous batch and then later using one or more bottles of beer. I wonder
whether or not the pressure and carbon dioxide buildup might not inhibit the
yeast too much. What I have done with regular success is dump a couple of
quarts of the slury at the bottom of the secondary into a half-gallon jar,
cap it and put it in the 'fridge until I was ready to pitch. In my experience
you don't end up with quite so much extra trub at the outset or quite as many
dead yeast cells, there's no "crud" left over in the carboy since I always
clean and sterilize it before re-use, and I can still wait a couple days or
more before brewing the next batch.
-David
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 14:55:29 bst
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas@loughborough.ac.uk>
Subject: Re : heresies
Apologies if I gave anyone the impression that I posted my heretical
thoughts for the sake of being frivolously controversial. My intentions
were more noble than that and, if you can stand a philosophical ramble,
read on.
a) Most homebrewing textbooks contain umpteen variations on the same basic
handful of recipes, yet have very little discussion of alternative
techniques. IMHO, mastery of homebrewing technique is the route to
progress. In most fields of endeavour, one of the things which
distinguishes novices from more advanced practitioners is knowledge of what
the most significant factors are, and knowledge of when the 'rules' of that
field should and should not be applied. A good example in brewing is the
making of ales using bottom fermenting yeasts. It can be done successfully,
provided that you know what you are doing.
b) I still maintain that large-scale production techniques are not
necessarily the most appropriate for the home. For example, we can probably
afford to employ a greater number of distinct stages in the brewing
process.
c) Somewhat paradoxically, simplicity of technique is probably also a
desirable goal. Especially if one wishes to be more than an occasional
hobbyist and wishes to incorporate brewing into his/her lifestyle (sort of
like doing Yoga :-)
d) By implication, I was encouraging more experimentation in homebrewing.
As someone said recently, they preferred to brew 'empirically'. In other
words, if the technique can't stand up to the scrutiny of a double-blind
tasting comparison, it is questionable. I received some enlightening mail
on some quite subtle virtues of wort-chilling, thanks very much. But I'm
still wondering whether it is the chilling itself or the subsequent racking
into the fermenter which is more important for quality. It's bemusing to
read posts in which people describe how they have conscientiously chilled
the wort, then pitched the yeast straight in on top !
e) This list is forever receiving posts of the type : "I would like to join
the arcane world of mashing but I don't possess a large enough
boiler/lauter tun/wort chiller/etc". My advice is RDW, and improvise. Your
resulting brews may not win competitions, but then you won't go back to
extract brewing either. Remember that beer was brewed with limited
equipment in most households prior to the 19th century. Mail me for more
details, or I can post if there is enough interest. Incidentally, one can
make a quite effective boiler or mash tun using a plastic bucket and a
kettle element. Same offer applies.
Oh, and I have dreamt up another heresy, which is that mashing temperatures
are not as critical as we are often led to believe (once again, it helps to
know what you are doing if you intend to mash cool). It's interesting to
speculate on the reasons why mother nature invented an enzyme system which
functions most efficiently at decidedly un-natural temperatures. About the
only natural situation I can think of is when a heap of grain is composting
on the ground. Any thoughts ?
Conn V Copas tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail -
G Britain (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
(Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 9:26:47 CDT
From: medch!chris@uunet.UU.NET
Subject: Oatmeal Stout
I've been wanting to try an oatmeal stout, but as I haven't been
able to start brewing yet, could anyone tell me a good one to try?
I'm going to Dallas this weekend, so hopefully I will be able to
find a good store with wide variety of beers. Anyone know of any?
Thanks!
- --
There are many ways of getting down a pit---
the easiest, of course, being to simply jump.
This practice is to be discouraged, however,
because the jumper might injure someone below... --- Roy Davis
___________________________________________________________________________
Fear's a big garage sale in the palm of my hand
Temptation wears a purple velvet hat... --- Mary's Danish
___________________________________________________________________________
| |
Chris Hudson | b17a!medch!chris | IW17A5
205-730-1375 | | Intergraph Corporation
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 07:53:21 PDT
From: jeg@desktalk.com (John E. Greene)
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #711 (August 28, 1991)
>>My question is this- what is the percent of alcohol in most of these beers
>>otherwise?
>Well, first of all, 3.2% by weight is about 3.9% by volume. This is pretty
>close to the figures I've heard for the Standard American Lager, and actually
>higher than the Standard American Lite. Now this is pure speculation on
>my part, but I'd wager that the 3.2 Bud carried at 7-11 is identical to the
>"high-point" Bud carried at Liquor stores; I'd bet the family farm (if there
>was one) that Bud Lite is the same at both localities. From personal experience
>I got just as drunk in college drinking 3.2 beer as I did drinking the stuff
>from Liquor stores.
For me, I came here to California from Michigan and noticed a *big* difference
in the taste and basic *mouthfeel* of the beers sold here as opposed to those
I drank in Michigan. California has a 4% limit on lagers and as a result gets
mostly 3.2% beer. I originally posted this list last November but it seems
that it may answer several questions if I posted it again. Apologies to the
HBD long timers for my being redundant.
Date: 12 Nov 90 08:44:07 PST (Mon)
>From: jeg@desktalkdesktalk.com (John E. Greene)
Subject: state limits on alcohol content in beer.
Dennis Henderson writes:
>In California "beer" must be less than 4%. If the alcohol
>content is higher then it is either labelled as Malt Liquor
>*or* you must have a 'wine/liquor license' to sell it.
>Don't know which it is as I have drank/drunk/previously
>consumed beer here in California that seemed over 4%.
An interesting note here is that "beer" is defined as a lager and that
California does not have a limit on the alcohol content of Ale.
>Most nationally distributed beers are less than 4% as this
>is the level that most states use to define beer.
Based on the latest data compliled by the Beer Institute (formerly the United
States Brewers Association), the maximum permissible alcoholic contents for
beverages sold in the various states is as follows:
STATE MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE
ALCOHOLIC CONTENT
Alabama 4% by weight, 5% by volume
Alaska No limit
Arizona No limit
Arkansas 5% by weight for most malt beverages
California 4% by weight for beer;no limit for ale, etc.
Colorado 3.2% by weight except for malt liquor
Connecticut No limit
Delaware No limit
District of Columbia No limit
Florida 3.2% in dry counties; no limit elsewhere
Georgia 6% by volume
Hawaii No limit
Idaho 4% by weight in nonstate stores
Illinois No limit in most areas
Indiana No limit
Iowa 5% by weight in nonstate stores
Kansas 3.2% by weight except for liquor store
package sales
Kentucky No limit in most areas
Louisiana 6% by volume in most areas;3.2% by weight
in dry areas
Maine No limit
Maryland No limit
Massachusetts 12% by weight
Michigan No limit
Minnesota 3.2% by weight for most malt beverages
Mississippi 4% by weight
Missouri 3.2% by weight. Exception: 5% or "malt
liquor"
Montana 7% by weight
Nebraska No limit
Nevada No limit
New Hampshire 6% by volume in nonstate stores
New Jersey No limit
New Mexico No limit
New York No limit
North Carolina 6% by volume
North Dakota No limit
Ohio 6% by weight
Oklahoma 3.2% by weight except for liquor store
package sales
Oregon 4% by weight for beer; 8% by weight for
other malt beverages
Pennsylvania No limit
Rhode Island No limit
South Carolina 5% by weight
South Dakota 3.2% by weight for "low point beer"; 6% by
weight for "high point"
Tennessee 5% by weight for most malt beverages
Texas 4% by weight for "beer"; no limit for others
Utah 3.2% by weight in nonstate stores
Vermont 6% by volume in nonstate stores
Virginia No limit
Washington 8% by weight in nonstate stores and
unlicensed establishments
West Virginia 4.2% by weight; 6% by volume
Wisconsin 5% by weight for most malt beverages
Wyoming No limit
In order to accommodate the differences in state regulations, most national
brands are brewed in two strengths, one at 3.2%, the other as high as 5.0%
alcohol by weight.
>Bonus Question: How does 'light beer' differ from the 3.2%
>beer?
Light beers range from 2.4 to 3.2% by weight.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John E. Greene Everyone needs something to believe in. I believe
Sr. Staff Engineer I'll have another homebrew!
Desktalk Systems Inc.
(213) 323-5998 internet: jeg@desktalk.desktalk.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 09:56:13 CDT
From: dyer@marble.rtsg.mot.com (Bill Dyer)
Subject: RE: decoction mashing, lauter tun temp.
>I tried a decoction mash over the weekend, and was satisfied with the
>technique and the effects. Overall, I'd say it's a more involving and
>more satisfying process than step-infusion mashing. There's something
>about boiling the thick porridge of grain that convinces me that
>*something* is going on. Temperature control is more precise, as well;
>I don't have to put up with my stove.
I just did my first decoction mash a couple of weeks ago. I agree, it seems
more satisfying. The only complaint I have is that it takes to stinking
long (took me about 8-9 hours from start until the wort was in the fermenter).
>
>My setup consists of an Igloo 36 qt. mash tun and a 33 qt. ceramic-on-
>steel boiler. The Igloo works extremely well at keeping the temperature
>constant.
I use and igloo mash tun als, mine is a little smaller though which makes
things a little sloppy sometime. OVerall it worked really well. I was
surprised at how well these things hold heat.
>I learned that it's a big pain to undershoot, and that as much grain as
>possible should be boiled for the acid rest--->saccharification rest
>decoction. It's easier to let the excess hot grain cool if there's too
>much than to cope with the mash being too cool.
Yes, I had the same problem. I boiled my second decoction and put it back
into the mash and took a tempurature reading - 142 degrees. Not quite
enough, I was shooting for a strike tempurature of about 153. Not know
what the hell to do next, I did another decoction, to try to raise the
temp. This time I got it up to about 148. By this time I was getting
a little frustrated. I finally gave in and added about a gallon of boiling
water to bring the tempurature to about 152, close enough. Who knows
what all this playing did to the final wort, but it fermeted strongly for
about a week, so I must have did something right.
On a related matter, how long does starch conversion usually take? Mine took
over an hour, but this may have something to do with all the messing around
I did with the tempurature.
>
>One question: what techniques do people use to keep the mash in the
>lauter tun warm while sparging? Mine is insulated, and when I
>recirculate I drain into a saucepan directly on a portable electric
>stove element. It stills cools off too much.
I use a simple bucket in bucket lauter tun, and the wort cools off significantly
when recirculating. I figured that the amount I was recirculating was fairly
small (maybe about 2 quarts??) that I didn't worry about it cooling too much.
The sparge water cools off some by the time it exits the lauter tun, but it
keeps it's temperature pretty well during the sparging process. I use sparge
water at about 180 degrees and it cools to about 170 or so by the time it
gets through the grains. Not a significant problem I hope.
_____________________________________________________________________________
| you'll think I'm dead, but I sail away |Bill Dyer (708) 632-7081 |
| on a wave of mutilation | dyer@motcid.rtsg.mot.com |
| -Pixies | or uunet!motcid!dyer |
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 10:59:47 EDT
From: otten@cs.wm.edu (John Otten)
Subject: Aluminum Wort chiller
Greetings!!
Although I have been reading the Digest for some time, this is my first posting.
A store near where I live sells all sorts of junk and overstocked items
(electric motors, old computer and medical electronic equipment etc.).
While browsing through the bins yesterday, I came upon a bunch of aluminum
coils that appear to be used for air conditioning. They are about 3/8" in
diameter and uncoiled would probably stretch about 20 feet. It seems as if
they would make perfect wort chillers (they were unused of course, no nasty
chemicals other than from the machining would be in them). They cost about
$9.50 each.
However, I was wondering if there would be any potential problems due to the
fact that they are aluminum. I know it is not good to have an aluminum pot to
boil the wort in (although I don't really know the chemical reactions that
would happen), but would the same reasons apply to chilling the wort?
The size of the coils would allow either chilling method (running the beer
through the coil, or running cold water through the coil immersed in the
beer), but the fact that there would be hot wort in contact with aluminum
with either method has me wondering...
I don't do mashing yet, but I am looking for cheap equipment before I get
into it, and a wort chiller for $10 would be a nice thing to have.
Any suggestions would be appreciated (e-mail or through the digest).
Thanks,
John
otten@cs.wm.edu
or
otten@icase.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 11:54:54 EDT
From: srussell@snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
Subject: Frozen and frothing Pepsi bottles
In HBD 710, Dave Kensiski (kensiski@nas.nasa.gov) wanted to know why
his nearly-frozen Pepsi bottles, a) upon uncapping, froze solid in the neck,
and b) upon subsequently melting, began frothing uncontrollably.
Two things that have been touched upon before are helpful to know:
one, that as the temperature of a liquid is lowered, it can hold more dissolved
gas, and two, that as the pressure over the liquid is raised, it can also hold
more gas. However, neither of these are the dominant factors in this problem.
The problem here is of the transformation from solid to liquid and
how it is affected by dissolved gas concentration. Dissolve anything in a
liquid...salt, CO2, alcohol, etc, and you will both *raise* its boiling point
and *lower* its freezing point. We're talking 2-8 degrees or so. Thus Pepsi,
which is carbonated, has a lower freezing point than pure water. Now take that
Pepsi and put it in your freezer to the point at which it *just* begins to
freeze. Now, uncap it. Suddenly, the overpressure maintaining the high con-
tration of dissolved CO2 is removed, CO2 comes out of the solution, leaving
(near the top, at least) nearly-pure water. But the temperature cannot respond
as rapidly as the pressure, so you've got (liquid) water below its freezing
point. This is why it instantaneously freezes near the top.
Another factor is the change in the freezing point due to pressure.
If you apply pressure to ice, it will melt (otherwise, how could we ice skate?)
meaning that an increase in pressure leads to a decrease in the freezing temp.
So, lowering the pressure over water will raise its freezing point, which works
in the same direction for the given problem. However, this effect is small
compared to the one due to dissolve gas concentration mentioned above.
Of course, this frozen cap prevents further CO2 from escaping, but as
the temperature is only a few degrees below 32F, it quickly warms up and melts.
As it melts, some of the underlying CO2 escapes, driven by the removal of the
overpressure (the change-in-temperature effect is much less significant). The
more forcefully the CO2 leaves, the more thoroughly the slush gets broken up,
and the more forcefully the CO2 leaves...a runaway reaction until the slush
is pretty much gone. The violence is just due to the slush being in the way.
Gee, I guess all that solution thermodynamics has paid off....
Ooogy wawa (that's Zulu for "we don't need no steenkin' Pepsi!),
STEVE
- --
Stephen Russell
Graduate Student, Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: srussell@snoopy.msc.cornell.edu work: 607-255-4648
Bitnet: srussell@crnlmsc3.bitnet home: 607-273-7306
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He who would trade a little bit of freedom for safety shall have neither."
-- Benjamin Franklin
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 09:36:02 PDT
From: keng@ic.MENTORG.COM (Ken Giles)
Subject: Yeast autolysis / DMS and quick chilling
Ok, my turn to be the gadfly.
What keeps yeast autolysis from occurring in bottle-conditioned homebrew? Is the
presence of trub required to start this process?
On quick wort chilling...
DMS (dimethyl sulfide) is formed from its precursors at wort temperatures above
70F. At high enough temperatures, (sorry, I haven't been able to find the exact
temp) the DMS is volatile and is expelled (i.e. from the kettle boil). An active
ferment will scrub out some DMS via the release of CO2. So, I conclude that
lagers are highly dependent on quick chilling in order to minimize formation of
DMS. Ales may be less sensitive to this, because of a more vigorous ferment and
the presence of other masking flavor compounds (i.e. esters).
This may actually be some basis for choosing between counterflow and immersion
chillers. While the total throughput for both are generally considered the same,
immersion chillers keep the entire wort volume in the DMS production-without-
volatility range longer than counterflow chillers, which take the wort through
the range in a matter of seconds.
Does anybody know the volatile temperature of DMS and what mechanisms cause it
to be expelled? Any comments?
kg.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 11:50:29 CDT
From: bliss@csrd.uiuc.edu (Brian Bliss)
Subject: molasses
> Anybody out there ever fermented molasses?
I put a pint in Cherry Bock #5.
It mostly ferments away, leaving a slight taste (not necessarily unpleasant,
but hard to discern through 7.5 lbs of cherries) in the brew.
I'm indifferent to it - what more can I say?
bb
------------------------------
Date: 28 Aug 91 13:24:48 EDT
From: Thomas Socha <76605.1774@compuserve.com>
Subject: DMS
Following the recipe for Lambic Ale in dave Miller's The complete hand book
of Home Brewing(fruit added peaches). I added a pound of pale malt.
Used a water and ice bath to chill the wort.
I believed that while chilling the wort became infected with dimelhye
sulfide (DMS) before pitching.
Mr. Miller states on page 157 that "DMS is elimenated during fermentation
as it is flushed out along with evolving carbon dioxide." Is this true
in all cases? What happens if not all the DMS are not flushed out?
Does it have an effect on the taste or smell on the final product?
Thank You,
Tom
e-mail 76605.1774@compuserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1991 14:13 EST
From: GERMANI%NSLVAX@Venus.YCC.Yale.Edu
Subject: bottling yeast?
Greetings,
I have never tried to recycle my yeast, but what Russ Gelinas said
today about just pitching a particularly yeasty bottle of homebrew got me
thinking. How about just stirring up the last few bottles worth and bottling
some of the slurry (without priming, of course). I would think that a couple
bottles of slurry would keep quite well in the fridge. Just don't mistake
it for a homebrew, wow what a surprise that would be!
Has anyone tried this? Any idea how long this could be stored? How
would you prepare it for pitching?
G'Day,
Joe
Bitnet: GERMANI@YALEVMS
Decnet: 44421::GERMANI
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Fermentation may have been a greater discovery than fire."
--David Rains Wallace
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 14:17:03 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: An interesting epitaph...
winter@cirrus.com (Keith Winter) quotes:
> ... who died of a violent Fever contracted by drinking Small Beer when
> hot the 12th of May 1764. Aged 26 Years.
Of course -- what do you expect from 26-year-old beer! 8->
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 11:14:58 PDT
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: cultured dregs
Russ Gelinas writes :
>So I was thinking of bottling the half-batch, and setting aside the
>first and last bottles (to be sure I get the one with the most yeast, if you
>follow my logic), and pitch those into the next batch.
While this will probably work (depending on yeast viability, age since
bottling, storage conditions etc.), you are likely to get a long lag
phase. Those dormant yeasties will have plenty to do before they can begin
thinking about fermentation. A friend of mine tried this and it eventually
worked, but his lag phase was a full 5 or 6 days. Your mileage may vary.
Although it's a little more work, you may want to consider making a starter
from your previous batch. Simply make a quart of low gravity (1.020-1.030)
wort, and pitch the dregs from 2 or 3 bottles into it. When fermentation is
at its peak, pitch the starter into your regular batch. By pitching a much
greater number of already active yeast cells, your fermentation will take
off much quicker. This technique has worked well for me many times.
CR
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 11:28:03 PDT
From: bgros@sensitivity.berkeley.edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: all-grain wheat brewing
After two successful extract brews, i'd like to make a wheat beer.
due to cost considerations, i would like this to be my first all-
grain brew, but from reading, it seems that an 8-gal pot is needed
to hold everything. also a wort chiller which i don't have.
so maybe i'll just mash the wheat malt use add pale extract to
the wort. i haven't sat down and worked out the details yet, but
this may give me an introduction to mashing and save money.
Are there any special considerations i have missed? any suggestions?
i just realized that the enzymes supplied by the barley would be
needed during the wheat mash, right? so i would have to add the
extract at the beginning of the mash. how would this affect the
amount of water needed during the mash?
One final question to anyone in the East Bay: what sort of water
additives do you use with EBMUD water?
Thanks.
- Bryan Gros
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 12:32:22 EDT
From: cjh@vallance.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Chip Hitchcock)
Subject: re an interesting epitaph
This sounds like the standard misbelief that alcohol is better than
water if you're hot. "small beer" in that period was weak but unlikely to
be infected, as it would generally be consumed as soon as it was finished
(and the soldiers probably wouldn't have known if it were infected). It is
true that alcohol can make you sweat more, which can make you cooler \if
the sweat evaporates/---not likely in the heavy uniforms of that period.
This belief shows up in interesting places, e.g. one of Kipling's
"Barrack Room Ballads" telling of a British ]politician[ who visits India in
December and yaps about the "Asian Solar Myth"; he is "persuaded" to stay
for a year and the rest of the poem is a listing of his various ailments,
beginning
Imprimis, six weeks "liver"
(it came from drinking beer). [[instead of gin'n'tonics?]]
The odd thing about this remark is that Kipling generally defended the
common soldier against the mistakes of officers and powerful civilians, but
he never quotes a soldier complaining about drinking India Pale Ale instead
of gin or rum. He also knew that hot work called for water instead of
alcohol, hence "Gunga Din". Perhaps the epitaph was recommending water over
beer? (not bloody likely....)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 15:53 EDT
From: Frank Tutzauer <COMFRANK@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu>
Subject: Too sweet? More hops!
Well, thanks to everyone who responded to my post about too-sweet beer. A
couple people thought it MIGHT have been the yeast or the temperature or even
the water, although a couple of people also said that these things definitely
were NOT the problem. By far and away, the consensus was that hopped extracts
are way underhopped, and the solution is to simply add more hops. I will do
so on my next batch (an Irish dry stout) and will report back.
On a related note, I recently visited a local brewpub (Buffalo Brewpub) and
ordered their Red Ale. It had a sweetness whose flavor was EXACTLY like mine.
I, of course, had much more of the sweetness, rendering the beer undrinkable.
Their's was certainly drinkable (very so), but the "quality" or "flavor" of
the sweetness was identical to mine. Their description of the beer was
"lightly hopped with a malty sweetness," making me think that my problem was
indeed too much malt sweetness not offset by enough hop bitterness.
Thanks again,
- --frank
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 13:14:36 PDT
From: grumpy!cr@uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Northwest Ale Festival
I recently received an invitation to attend the 5th annual Northwest
Ale Festival which is held in Seattle from September 10-15. The event
is sponsored by the Microbrew Appreciation Society, and takes place at
Cooper's Ale House.
Have any HBD'ers in Seattle been to one of these in the past??
It sounds like a good time, and I was thinking of heading up there
for a long weekend. Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks,
CR
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 16:06:02 EDT
From: eisen@kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West)
Subject: Screw-on caps
I understand that it takes a certain kind of luck to get crown
caps to work on twist-off bottles and ordinary mortals shouldn't
even bother trying.
So,
How about using the real screw-on/screw-off caps and their bottles?
There are some really funky shaped bottles out there that take these caps.
I figure, boil the hell out of the caps, and they'll be fine.
Am I wrong?
Yes, I know I'd have to keep the bottles in the dark if they're clear,
but hey, the light goes off in *my* refrigerator.
Prosit!
-Carl
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 15:31:21 PDT
From: "Norbert Vicente" <norbert@hprnhv.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Subscription Cancelation
Full-Name: "Norbert Vicente"
Can you please delete my name from the distribution list. Thanks....
- --
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
##################### ~ Norbert Vicente (916) 785-5388 ~
###### /_ _ #### ~ Roseville Site Organization ~
##### / / /_/ ##### ~ 8020 Foothills Blvd.,Roseville, CA 95678 ~
#### / ###### ~ HPDesk: Norbert (hprpcd) /HP5200/UX ~
##################### ~ Unix to Unix: norbert@hprpcd.rose.hp.com ~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 16:02:01 -0700
From: innet!phil@UCSD.EDU
To: !ucsd!homebrew%hpfcmi@hplabs.hp.com
cc:
Re: Fruit flavored ales
I recently visited the "Tied House" in San Jose that had a very refreshing
summer sort of brew called "Passion Pale." The description said that it was
their regular Pale Ale with Passion Fruit and a little Lemon added.
I'd like to make something similar. I've made a few brews so the Pale part
is no problem, but I have yet to venture off into the land of fruit. Papazian
recommends adding the fruit when the wort has ceased boiling to achieve some
level of pastuerization but avoid the pectin problem. OK, I can handle that.
But, how much fruit do I add? I'll most likely wind up using juice, I haven't
looked to see what's available yet, and lemons are no problem. I would like
some recommendations so I don't overdo it the first time around. I have
one remaining bottle of my "light American" brew that I plan to use as the
base for this next brew, and I thought of adding a little fruit juice until
I got something reasonable, but I'd still like to know what the boundaries
are. Any help out there?
-phil duclos
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 19:31:43 EDT
From: srussell@snoopy.msc.cornell.edu (Stephen Russell)
Subject: What's the scoop on the new NYC brewpub?
I was in New York City last weekend, and as I had heard that a new brewpub
was supposed to be opening up in August, I thought to drop in and quaff a
few. The new place, called Zip City, is at 3 W. 18th St. just off of 5th
Avenue. Needless to say, every time I called (212-366-6333) I got their
answering machine saying "we are in and out, blah blah", and upon driving
by that address I failed to see a sign or anything else indicating that
their opening is imminent.
Does anyone out there in HBD-land know what the scoop is, and if they are
having licensing difficulty or something like that? Such is only too often
the case with these establishments...damn narrow-minded city governments!
I have also heard they have several beers (lagers, fortunately) sitting in
tanks awaiting consumption (I volunteer).
My quest for beer was not totally in vain; I found the Manhattan Brewing Co.
in Soho and tried their 4 available beers. The "Light" seemed a bit sweet
and bland, the "Stout" more like a Munich Dunkel Ale, and the "Bitter" really
weird-tasting, like a liqueur but not as alcoholic; certainly not bitter
enough to warrant putting it in this style. I thought their "Wheat" was OK,
though, smoother and less bitter than Sam Adams. The "Amber" was sold out
that night. Does anyone have some knowledge of these beers that could tell
me if I got typical or atypical batches (or if I have zero palate)?
Kampai,
STEVE
- --
Stephen Russell
Graduate Student, Department of Materials Science and Engineering
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: srussell@snoopy.msc.cornell.edu work: 607-255-4648
Bitnet: srussell@crnlmsc3.bitnet home: 607-273-7306
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"He who would trade a little bit of freedom for safety shall have neither."
-- Benjamin Franklin
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1991 19:36 CST
From: Laura Blomme <BLOMMEL@sask.usask.ca>
Subject: Uncompressed Cat's Meow
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has an uncompressed copy of the recipe book: The
Cat's Meow. My original copy has disappeared, and I can't find it anywhere.
I'd really appreciate it if someone could mail that for me! But the copy
has to be uncompressed as I don't have a decompresser available! My email
address is: in%"blommel@sask.usask.ca"
Thanks alot!!
Laura Blomme
University of Saskatchewan
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Canada
blommel@sask.usask.ca
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 91 09:50 CDT
From: arf@ddsw1.mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Sassafras
To: Homebrew Digest
Fm: Jack Schmidling
Subject: Sassafras and Cnacer
Re: larryba@ingate.microsoft.COM
Subject: Root Beer
>Several months ago I talked with the Kemper head brewer)
and he said that the sassafras extract comes from only a few
licenced processors since the raw stuff is apparently quite
carcinogenic.
Finding that the extract I am using makes no bones about
"artificial" flavors and not having received any response to
mail asking about them, I decided to look into doing the
extracting myself and was disappointed, though not suprised
to learn the above.
Can anyone document the carcinogenic aspect of sasafrass and
what if anything is done to mitigate it?
>I looked in my local supermarket for some "hires extract"
that my dad used way back when and all they had was some
totally artificial and loaded with odd chemical components
stuff from Shilling (i.e. no sassafras in it at all!)
The Hires Extract is now produced by:
Rainbow Flavors, Inc
Osage Beach, Mo 65056
It is marketed as "HOMBREW" brand and is the one I referred
to above. I have a hard time believing that anything that
require so little for such a powerful taste can be natural
or non-toxic.
jack
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1991 00:52:00 -0400
From: MIKE LIGAS <LIGAS@SSCvax.CIS.McMaster.CA>
Subject: Re: Yeast infection? (agar plate culture)
>From: Chris Shenton <chris@endgame.gsfc.nasa.gov>
>Subject: Yeast infection? (agar plate culture)
>I snarfed some unfiltered weizenbier from a brewpub and marked up an
>wort-agar plate with it a couple days ago. Now I find a couple funny
>looking areas on it, dark blue-green in the center with white surrounding
>areas looking kinda furry. I assume this is *not* what I want?
>Seems kind of early to see any signs of life that I *want*; I would have
>thought it would take about a week to see desired critters. Can I just let
>it hang out for a while and see if I get colonies along the streak line I
>made, or will the plate get infected by these invaders?
>Anyone care to describe what a weizenbier yeast from Weihenstephen looks
>like? (furry, not green in the center, etc?)
Without a doubt you do not want any colonies that are coloured blue, green or
anything other than white. It is unclear from your description if the
blue-green area is a separate entity from the surrounding white areas which look
furry or if you are talking about one structure which has a blue-green centre
and a surrounding white perimeter. If the first case is true then the white
structures may be the yeast you desire (S. delbrueckii).
The blue-green monster is a contaminating mold. Just think what would have
happened if you had simply scaled up the yeast slurry which you obtained from
the pub and pitched it into fresh wort!! As far as timing is concerned, a 2-3
day incubation period may be sufficient to develop yeast colonies. This would
be related to the temperature that the plates were kept at and the yeast strain
itself. I have found S. delbrueckii to be a rapid grower.
The mold may also have been introduced during your culturing procedure. All
wort & wort/agar must be pressure sterilized either in an autoclave or a home
pressure cooker (minimum 15 psi for 20 mins). The petri dishes must be obtained
sterile (irradiated plastic or baked glass). Once you are sure that all
equipment is sterile then the culturing environment is your next concern. Wash
your hands with a deodorant soap and dry them with a fresh towel. Spray the air
with a quick shot of Lysol and wait a few minutes. Do not talk, cough, wheeze
etc. when lids are opened or when the petri dish lids are removed. Have a flame
source in the culture area to quickly flame the necks of any glass containers
holding sterile wort or a liquid yeast culture and to sterilize your
innoculating looped needle. Essentially, be anal retentive.
S. delbrueckii colonies are white to cream coloured. They tend to be flatter
than most S. cerevisiae colonies on malt agar in that they resemble pancakes
more than domes. Furthermore the edges of delbrueckii colonies are uneven where
cerevisiae colonies tend to be quite round (smooth, circular). They grow
rapidly as mentioned above and have an uneven top surface (not smooth like
cerevisiae domes). ...god I wish ascii graphics weren't so limited...
I'd recommend picking a well isolated colony which fits the given description
and innoculating a 50 ml aliquot of sterile wort with it. After three days take
a loop of this freshly grown batch of yeast and replate on malt agar. Reselect
a healthy looking colony from this plate and innoculate sterile wort again. In
a few days you can remove a small bit of this for a taste and you'll know then
if you've purified S. delbrueckii by the presence (hopefully) of a nice
clovelike essence. This of course can be done in duplicate or triplicate to
increase your chances of getting what you want. It's not as difficult as it may
sound.
Good luck and let us know how things pan out.
PS: I've tried many times to send you a letter directly but the letter was
spooled back to me. Do you have another E-mail address I can try?
Mike Ligas
Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
ligas@sscvax.cis.mcmaster.ca
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #712, 08/29/91
*************************************
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