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HOMEBREW Digest #0693
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 91/08/02 03:06:19
HOMEBREW Digest #693 Fri 02 August 1991
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Pitching Rates (Re: Overpitching?) (Stephen E. Hansen)
stuck ferment (Russ Gelinas)
Absolute Beginners (Peter Glen Berger)
Saving Malt Aromatics ("Roger Deschner")
Christmas Ale Recipe (BAUGHMANKR)
Re: Lotus 1-2-3 file... (Kurt Swanson)
Fear and Loathing in the Great PPM vs. mG/L Debate... (Kurt Swanson)
Wort aeration... (Kurt Swanson)
Re : A Judge's Lament (Conn Copas)
Yeast (Walter H. Gude)
Indian beers (Percy)
Musings on a first mash (Kurt Swanson)
Where to find kegs (Jeff Close)
Cider (Phil Obermarck)
Re: Liberia's own Club beer (Dale Veeneman)
Dry-hopping (Tom Bower)
unsuscribe root@bison.mb.ca (root of bison)
Re: Stuck Fermentation (Ken Ellinwood)
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmi@hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmi@hplabs.hp.com
[Please do not send me requests for back issues]
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 91 23:53:06 -0700
From: Stephen E. Hansen <hansen@gloworm.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Pitching Rates (Re: Overpitching?)
In Homebrew Digest #688, eisen@kopf.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Carl West) writes:
> OK, so how much yeast is too much yeast?
The question of pitching rates was thrown around the HBD many moons
ago but I don't remember that anyone came up with a definitive answer
(i.e. Biblical, as in from the works of Miller or Fix). I recently
came across a value for commercial "standard" pitching rates that I
thought I'd share with the rest of you.
My wife's aunt knows of my interest in brewing and often sends me
newspaper clippings and whatnot from the Portland area. She worked
for many years in a microbiology lab and I assume that that is the
source of a publication she recently sent my way. It's titled
"Microbiological Control in the Brewery", Application Report AR-71
from the Millipore Company. Millipore supplies filtration equipment
and culture media to the brewing industry (and others). This report
was kind of interesting in its discussion of controlling and monitoring
the wee critters in a commercial brewery.
One section on Critical Control Areas talked about testing the pitching
yeast for Lactobacillus and Pediococcus contamination. As part of this
test a "pitching rate equivalent" dilution is made and cultured on
the proper medium. Here are the directions. Parts 1, 2 and 5 are the
interesting ones.
1. Obtain a sample yeast cream from the brink.
2. Place 2 ml of the sample into 50 ml of sterile saline solution.
3. Shake the dilution bottle and plate (i.e. spread in thin coating)
a 0.1 ml sample on Wallerstein Laboratories Differential Medium
(WLD medium).
4. Incubate anaerobically for ten days (refer to section on
"Anaerobic Culturing").
5. If the count is under 50 bacterial colonies per ml, the yeast is
considered to be in sound biological condition.
If the yeast is diluted as described, the number of organisms
that appear on the plate will be identical to the number per ml
that would appear in the wort if the yeast were to be used in
pitching. Or, to put it another way, a "pitching-rate-equivalent"
dilution is the same as the dilution that results when the brewer
pitches the standard one pound of yeast to one barrel of wort.
Following this formula, a homebrewer would need to pitch 0.8 quarts of
"yeast cream" for a 5 gallon batch. Now I generally pitch about 3 pints
of starter solution but you can bet that that is a small fraction of the
"standard one pound of yeast to one barrel of wort."
Worried about overpitching? Don't. Have a homebrew :-)
Stephen E. Hansen - hansen@sierra.Stanford.EDU | "The church is near,
Electrical Engineering Computer Facility | but the road is icy.
Applied Electronics Laboratory, Room 204 | The bar is far away,
Stanford University, Stanford, CA 94305-4055 | but I will walk carefully."
Phone: +1-415-723-1058 Fax: +1-415-725-7298 | -- Russian Proverb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1991 9:38:53 EDT
From: R_GELINAS@UNHH.UNH.EDU (Russ Gelinas)
Subject: stuck ferment
Somewhere in Miller (look for Crabtree effect in the index), he discusses
why "beginner recipes" are bad, and I believe he says somthing to the effect
that because these recipes are very light on malt, like 3 lbs., there is
a lack of the proteins and amino acids that the yeast need to multiply. So
the yeast only grow to a certain point, then they start fermenting. He
says something about maltotriose not being able to be taken in by the cells,
so the result is a high-final gravity beer. I suppose even if you make a
1.040 OG brew, if the malt does not have enough of the required yeast
nutrients, then you could get the same result. Unfortunately, I don't think
you could just add yeast nutrients to the stuck batch; the yeast are already
"damaged". Yeast experts, wanna comment?
Looking back, 2 of the people with stuck ferments used M&F malt. Mark S.,
did you also use M&F? Maybe M&F made a nutrient-poor batch.
Russ (I don't claim to understand any of this. If in doubt, boil the book,
no wait, don't boil it, just simmer it, like tea, no, not like tea, like...)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:06:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Peter Glen Berger <pb1p+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Absolute Beginners
Okay, it's naive stupid question time.
I just moved in to a new house, which means that I think I finally
have enough space to homebrew. My questions are:
1) What equipment do I need and how much will it cost?
2) Are there net resources (a la ftp) for recipes and the like?
3) Any other useful information that would help a beginner.
Please either post any responses, or mail them to:
pb1p+beer@andrew.cmu.edu.
Thanks!
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Berger || ARPA: peterb@cs.cmu.edu
Professional Student || Pete.Berger@andrew.cmu.edu
Univ. Pittsburgh School of Law || BITNET: R746PB1P@CMCCVB
Attend this school, not CMU || UUCP: ...!harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!pb1p
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Goldilocks is about property rights. Little Red Riding Hood is a tale
of seduction, rape, murder, and cannibalism." -Bernard J. Hibbits
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 1 August 1991 09:32:24 CDT
From: "Roger Deschner" <U52983@UICVM.uic.edu>
Subject: Saving Malt Aromatics
It occured to me -- now why on earth would you want to do a thing like
that? The greatest value of those malt aromatics "lost" during the boil
is what they do to my house while I am brewing. It is a truly heavenly
aroma, and one of the definite rewards of brewing at home, despite the
upstairs neighbor who periodically drops by for a homebrew when he smells
it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1991 11:06 EST
From: BAUGHMANKR@CONRAD.APPSTATE.EDU
Subject: Christmas Ale Recipe
>From: Curt Ames <7872P%NAVPGS.BITNET@CORNELLC.cit.cornell.edu>
Hmm. Another one of those renegades from Cornell.
>Subject: Christmas Brew
>I'm looking for that special holiday brew made with any Christmas-type herbs
>and spices. Anyone have a favorite mix out there for a dark, high alcohol
>winter brew.
Following is Phil Fleming's recipe for Christmas Ale that I posted last
fall in these electronic pages. The recipe is in the latest special issue
of Zymurgy. I judged this beer in Oakland at the AHA competition. All I
can say is that after the first sip I was singing "Jingle Bells"! It
finished runner-up in Best of Show.
Ingredients for 5 gallons
3 1/2 pounds Munton and Fison Stout Kit
3 1/2 pounds Munton and Fison amber dry malt extract
3 pounds Munton and Fison amber dry malt extract } ?? Typo ??
1/2 ounce Hallertauer hops (60 minutes)
1/2 ounce Hallertauer hops (5 minutes)
3/4 pound honey
5 3-inch cinnamon sticks
2 teaspoons allspice
1 teaspoon cloves
6 ounces ginger root
6 rinds from medium size oranges (scrape the white insides of the
rind away)
Wyeast No. 1007 German ale liquid yeast
7 ounces corn sugar for priming
*O.G.: 1.069
*T.G.: 1.030
*Primary fermentation: 14 days @ 61 degrees F.
*Age when judged: six months
BREWER'S SPECIFICS
Simmer spices and honey (45 minutes). Boil malt and hops (50 minutes).
Add finishing hops and boil (5 minutes). Cool, strain and pitch yeast.
MY COMMENTS:
The second call for 3 pounds of M & F amber dry malt extract is probably a
typo in the magazine. 7 pounds of extract and 3/4 pound of honey would
give you an O.G. of around 1.069. 10 pounds of extract would give you an
O.G. much higher than that.
I never did decide if the second call for the M & F was a typo or
not. It was discussed but I'm not sure I was convinced. So please
take my comments with a "shaker or two of salt". Anybody close to
Phil care to ask him? This was one of the best -- no, I take that
back -- this was THE best Xmas ale I've ever tasted. I'd like to
set the public record straight especially since I might be the one
screwing it up.
Though he doesn't say so, it sounds like Phil did not brew the honey and
spices together with the extract but mixed them together in the fermenter.
I will say that, unlike other Xmas beers I've tasted, this beer had the
freshest, most aromatic spicy smell and taste. Oftentimes, spices will
add a bitterness to the beer if boiled too long. This beer was not
bitter at all.
Merry Christmas.
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
| I'm late for work.
Ah, hem!
> --Darryl Richman
>P.S. To all the adoring fans, yes... it's true: this is just a facade
>account and nome d'plume for Steve Russell (srussell@snoopy.msc.cornell.
>edu), one of those lovable rascals at Cornell, where there is nothing
>better to do than drink. IBU, UBMe, We All B Each Other.
Well, whether U B Darryl or U B Snoopy, just wanted to let you know that
you might be careful when and where you plume your nome. We got laws
against doing that kind of thing in public down here in North Carolina.
Jesse, he be everywhere!!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:28:13 CDT
From: kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Re: Lotus 1-2-3 file...
So whatever happened to that Lotus 1-2-3 brewing aid that was discussed in this
forum?? I keep checking the archives in miami, but find nothing new... What's
the word? I'd like to get my fingertips on this...
- --
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University. kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:50:38 CDT
From: kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Fear and Loathing in the Great PPM vs. mG/L Debate...
I couldn't resist holding off until the fiery debate subsided...
About 2 months ago I received a city water analysis in terms of mg/l, and
discovered that my reference (Miller), described the variants in terms of ppm.
Thus I, too, was wondering the conversion rate. So I posted a Usenet msg to
sci.chem saying that I had measurements of certain ions dissolved in H2O in
terms of mg/l and needed ppm. I stated how chemically ignorant I was, but that
I believed some equation must exist that uses Avogadro's number.
I received about 15 replies. They all said that "ppm" is a misnomer, outdated
term, shouldn't be used, etc.... And they assured me that any reference to ppm
for dissolved ions in water is in fact equivalent to mg/l... But,
unfortunately, about half told me that I should multiply mg/l by 1 to get ppm,
while the others said I should divide... thus the great debate continues...
- --
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University. kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:53:31 CDT
From: kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Wort aeration...
To aerate wort it has been suggested that small holes be drilled on the end of
the siphon tube... but *WHICH* end? I could see possibilities for either, but
maybe I'm just over-thinking this one...
- --
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University. kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 16:43:36 bst
From: Conn Copas <C.V.Copas%loughborough.ac.uk@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re : A Judge's Lament
Martin A. Lodahl writes :
> But the more acquainted I become with infected beer, the
>more I'm convinced it's not harmless.
This is probably not so relevant to tasting and judging, but different
beers of the same strength certainly can have different hangover potential.
The culprit seems to be higher alcohols (often referred to collectively as
fusel oil), although I must admit that the whole subject of the effect of
congeners in alcoholic drinks is somewhat contentious, scientifically.
Fusel oil is promoted by the use of certain (typically amateur) yeasts,
warm ferments, and nutrient deficiencies. Having said all this, some ale
brewers intentionally encourage fusel oil production for the sake of
additional complexity, in the same way that high gravity brews are regarded
for their fruity ester content. I've had many a homebrewer tell me that
their brew treats them more lightly than commercial brews, due to the
natural methods employed, presence of yeast, etc. By and large, my
investigations have revealed this to be wishful thinking, and that anybody
who uses 'yeast anonymous' and no temperature control is asking for a
headache.
Conn V Copas tel : (0509)263171 ext 4164
Loughborough University of Technology fax : (0509)610815
Computer-Human Interaction Research Centre
Leicestershire LE11 3TU e-mail -
G Britain (Janet):C.V.Copas@uk.ac.lut
(Internet):C.V.Copas%lut.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 10:32:48 CDT
From: whg@tellab5.tellabs.COM (Walter H. Gude)
Subject: Yeast
Hi,
With all this talk about yeast I've been thinking (Always a bad sign).
What if, rather than take the slurry out of the primary, I put new wort into
the primary. I figure I could brew up a new batch on the day I'm tranfering
to the secondary. After siphoning the firth batch of, I could siphon in the
new wort. Of course, the new wort would have to be the right temp. when it was
siphoned. I think I'd only want to do this once or twice before giving the
fermenter a good cleaning.
Anybody tried this? I can't see that there'd be more chance of infection than
transfering the yeast from place to place several times.
Comments?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 14:10:37 EDT
From: t13329@Calvin.EDU (Percy)
Subject: Indian beers
Howdy,
I'm new to this list. I've never really brewed any beer myself
but I do drink a great deal of it. My Dad used to brew beer in this
big blue plastic traschcan and it was damned good. Instead of malt
he'd use this black, sticky gunk that was some kind of pick-me-up
medicene that you got in big bottles. I think it was because malt was
hard to get in India or something - anyone know what that could have
been?
BTW, any one out there ever try an Indian beer?
Su Misra
t13329@ursa.calvin.edu
- --
| \ | / \| \| | \| |\ | | \| \|
| /| /\ \|/ \|\ |\ . |\ \|\ |/ | /|| /|\|\ |\
|/ | / \ | |\ | . |/ |\ |\ |/ ||/ | |\ |
|/ \ | | | | | | \ | | | |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 13:22:32 CDT
From: kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu (Kurt Swanson)
Subject: Musings on a first mash
For my first all-grain recipe, I chose Miller's All-Malt I.P.A., (pg. 224),
using 6 lbs 2-row lager, 1 lb crystal, .5 ounce chocolate, and 14 AAU's of
Fuggles (is this pronounced like goggles or bugles?), which worked to be 3.2
ounces. I placed the grains into my corona's hopper, and proceded to set the
grind as per Miller pgs 111-112. With the 2nd plate assembly firmly screwed to
the rest of the mill (with the 2 wing nut on the sides), I found that even with
the adjusting screw completely loosened (or taken off), the grain was just
gournd much too fine - flour. Thus I loosened the two wing nuts which gave the
grinding plates a bit more room. Now the grain came out still very fine, but
the husks were not ground, so I said "intact husks - no problems sparging"
(mistake #1). Then I mashed-in as the stated temp, adjusted pH correctly, and
proceded to starch conversion temperature (150F). With my 33 quart pot covering
2 burners, this did not take long. When it got to 147F, I turned of the
burners, and watched the temp settle at 150F - so I thought (mistake #2). So I
placed the pot into my insulated box, and waited one hour. Then I checked the
temp, and found it to be 153F! I had no idea how high it went. So I decided
let it cool, and at 148F I closed it up again. After another hour I took the
temp and found it at 147F - the box is a pretty good insulator. So I proceded
to sparge. I used a grain bag slightly suspended over the bottom of one of
those Canadian 6.7 gallon food pails (which I believe come straight through
Crosby & Baker), to which I had added a spigot. The first runnings where
opaque. So were the third, fifth, and twelfth. So I just decided I had
obviously ground the grains to much, and proceded to rinse that which was not
flour.
Now, because of mistakes 1 & 2, I decided I just might not have enough sugar in
the wort to make anything stronger than Miller Lite. Thus, lacking any
extract, I added (get ready to cringe), one pound of corn sugar. Then I
completed the boil and hop additions to complete the recipe, chilled the wort,
racked off the flour into the fermenter, and took an O.G. reading of 1.047 in
4.5 gallons. (For some reason I decided not to top this up to five). Miller
obtains an OG of 1.045 with this recipe, so assuming a complete 40 pts/gallon
of gravity for the pound of corn sugar, and discounting the lost fermentables
in there with the dead flour in the boiler, bearing any miscalculations, I
believe I obtained an efficiency of 85+% of Miller's. How good is this?
To complete the story I pitched with 7 month old Wyeast (British Ale), which
only took 1 day to explode to near bursting levels in the foil. (My last Wyeast
was 1 month old and took one hour to get to pitchable size.) Anyone else
encounter this?
Another comment: I have a 33-quart pot & a 9-quart pot. Thus I mashed in the
33-quart, and had to try to get 5 gallons of sparge water into a 9-quart pot,
immediately rinse out the 33-quart to collect the runnings & then boil. I
suspect the purchase of a 20-quart pot for sparge water would be a good idea,
or even two, with one to mash in - and thus only use the 33-quart for boiling
since 33-quart is a bit large for mashing (I would like my floating thermometer
to actually float....). So what sort of setup do y'all use?
- --
Kurt Swanson, Dept. of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science,
Northwestern University. kswanson@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 15:41:24 EDT
From: Jeff Close <jclose@potomac.ads.com>
Subject: Where to find kegs
Greetings,
I know this has been discussed millions of times, but can anyone
repeat where some good sources for small kegs are? I'm tired of
bottling and want to look into it... Thanks much for any help.
Jeffrey
- ---------------------------------v------------------------------------
InterNet: jclose@ads.com | VoiceNet: 703-243-1611
ADS, 1500 Wilson Blvd #512 | "Now it's time for something you'll
Arlington, VA 22209 | REALLY like.." - Rocky the Squirrel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 13:32:27 PDT
From: Phil Obermarck <POBERMARCK@INTELLICORP.COM>
Subject: Cider
Help!
I have recently come into a mess o' apples, and would like to make some cider.
Problem is, I don't have a cider press. If anyone can tell me where I can
buy (cheap), rent or borrow one in the SF Bay area I'd appreciate it.
Also, any favorite cider recipes (pref from apple to bottle) would be useful.
Thanks,
Philip R. Obermarck
POBERMARCK@INTELLICORP.COM
- -------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 91 16:40:06 EDT
From: Dale Veeneman <dev1@gte.com>
Subject: Re: Liberia's own Club beer
I have very fond memories of Club beer. I served as a Peace Corps
volunteer in Liberia for nearly 4 years in the early 70's. Since
water was generally not safe to drink without boiling, I drank a
great deal of beer. A few European imports were available in
bigger towns (and at special embassy functions), but cost more
than I could afford on my meager salary so I drank Club. (Palm
wine, a naturally fermented beverage collected from specially
prepared tree tops and immediately consumed was also available,
but you had to know someone who had a tree and besides that's a
whole 'nother story -- as is "cane juice.") Rumor had it the
brewery was started by a German, but when I was there the company
motto could have been "Relax, don't worry, have a Club."
Once there was a period of extended drought (unusual for a rain
forest climate) which caused the level of Monrovia's St. Paul
river to drop. The level dropped far enough that brine from the
ocean started backing upstream. This wasn't too bad, except that
the city's water supply was taken from the river. So for a period
of 3-4 months the city's water was so salty, you couldn't drink
it. Not to worry, just drink Club! Unfortunately, the brewery
got its water from the city supply. Did this bother them? Not in
the least, they just continued brewing, producing case after case
of salty, undrinkable beer (talk about water conditioning - I hate
to think of the ppm). For a year or two afterwards, I would
occasionally order a beer in some out-of-the-way up-country dive,
take a sip, pucker up, spit it out, and dump the bottle.
On another occasion (the night before my wedding, in fact), a
group of friends and I were out bending a few elbows. Now, Club
beer bottles came in two sizes, 750 ml (the usual), and something
around 300 or 350 ml (nobody bothered with these). Because the
bottles could be found all over the country, they became a
standard for measuring volume by the market ladies. Palm oil,
palm wine, kerosine, etc., all could be found in Club bottles
lining stalls at the markets. Anyway, this night, I noticed
something terribly wrong with the beer I was drinking. Everybody
tasted it but nobody could tell what it was. We finally called
the proprietor over to taste it - he took a swig, spit it on the
floor and said he thought it was kerosine. So we all tasted it
again and agreed that yes, although it probably wasn't 100%
kerosine, it had alot in it.
Beginning in December of 1989, a tragic civil war has decimated
the country (Nimba county, in which I lived for two years, is
virtually deserted). A tenuous cease-fire appears to be holding,
but things are still in a very bad way.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 15:25:25 PDT
From: Tom Bower <bower@hprnlme1.rose.hp.com>
Subject: Dry-hopping
Full-Name: Tom Bower
Questions for the hop-heads!
The major problem I've heard of with dry-hopping is the risk of contamination.
Over the last months, there have been discussions of microwaving, tea-brewing
and various other techniques, but I haven't been able to get a clear idea of
what the best method is.
1.) How do you keep your brew from becoming infected when dry-hopping?
2.) Does dry-hopping in a (refrigerated) keg work well? I'm thinking of
trying this on my next beer. I would hope that the cold temperatures
might reduce the risk of any nasties becoming a problem.
Any advice would be appreciated!
Tom Bower, HP RND R&D
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 91 21:21:20 CDT
From: root of bison <root@bison.mb.ca>
Subject: unsuscribe root@bison.mb.ca
unsuscribe
How do I unsuscribe to this mailing list ?
I have sent a request to homebrew-request, but got a reply
that my userid is being added (twice ?)
Anyway, I'd like to unsuscribe to this mailing list.
Thanks
- -- budi rahardjo <root@bison.mb.ca>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 91 17:57:10 PDT
From: aimla!ruby!ken@uunet.UU.NET (Ken Ellinwood)
Subject: Re: Stuck Fermentation
Last year I too suffered from a long string of stuck fermentations.
Here was my situation: I brewed all ales, almost all of which had origial
gravities of 1.044 and stuck at 1.016 or 1.020. I fermented in a
refrigerator and used a lamp timer and some personal attention to
control the temperature inside the refrigerator. Believing that higher
temperatures of ferment were worse than lower ones and that since the
weather affected the temperature inside the refrigerator, I kept the
temperature of fermentation down in the low 60's (this way, I thought,
I could keep the weather from ruining my beer when I was unable to
attend to it for a while). After trying to solve the problem with
different malt extracts, better wort areation, stronger pitches and
yeast nutrient, (none of which had any noticeable effect - leading me
to beleive that they were not the problem), I fermented with the
fermenter mostly submerged in large water bath and kept the temperature
of the bath at a somewhat stable 67-69 degrees. Problem solved - the
two batches that were fermented in this manner both fermented down to
about 1.010. Apparently, ale yeasts prefer this kind of temperature.
I have since purchased the hunter energy monitor for my fermenting fridge.
Although I haven't had time to brew with it yet, I hope that it will
allow for many successful brews in the high 60's (unattended, of course).
Ken Ellinwood
ken@aimla.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #693, 08/02/91
*************************************
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