HOMEBREW Digest #0508

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HOMEBREW Digest

 · 7 months ago

This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU  90/10/02 03:19:18 

 
HOMEBREW Digest #508		             Tue 02 October 1990 

 
	FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES 
		Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator 

 
Contents: 
  dark beer (Richard J Lavin) 
  yeastie beasties (Heidi Schlitt) 
  Hard Cider recipie (jwhite) 
  Brewing Talk @ Xerox PARC (dw) 
  Re: Priming (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) 
  Re: Slugs and Beer (Nick Dais) 
  Maltose (John S. Watson - FSC) 
  Sweetness & Temperature, etc.. (Jay Hersh) 
  Chimay recipe. ("SIXTO A. GONZALEZ") 
  Pyment; brewpubs; trub ("FEINSTEIN") 
  Germany - Part 4 (Norm Hardy) 
  kegging vs bottling (Bill Crick) 

 
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com 
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com 
[Please do not send me requests for back issues] 
Archives are available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu 

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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 90 23:25:44 EDT 
From: mvrjl1@mvgpn.att.com (Richard J Lavin) 
Subject: dark beer 

 
 This is my first post I would like to know  
 Hi homebrewers 
This is my first post I like dark beer can anyone tell me 
lllllllljThis is my first post I realy like dark beer. Can anyone 
tell me whats the difference in brewing dark and regular beer? 

 I bought a 6pack of samual adams octoberfest beer this week. 
I realy enjoyed it the first time I bought sam a. I thought 
it had a bad after taste. After reading this group I tried it 
again. The first rack must have spoiled. Because the second 
one was great!! 

 

------------------------------ 

Date:    Mon, 1 Oct 1990 8:13:07 MDT 
From: SQUID@zen.radiology.arizona.edu (Heidi Schlitt) 
Subject: yeastie beasties 

Just started my first attempt at culturing Sierra Nevada pale ale yeast. I 
decanted three bottles and pitched the yeast into 2 cups of starter. The 
starter was 1/4 cup dry malt extract into 2 cups water, boiled and cooled to 
room temperature (75F). Fermentation began after about 36 hours and seems to be 
normal except... there is a layer of what appears to be yeast clinging to the 
sides of the jar at the top of the liquid along with the foam. I have never had 
a starter do this before (I've only done starters about 10 times before and the 
yeast has always fallen to the bottom of the jar). The ale was about 6 weeks 
old according to the date code (many thanks to Pete Soper for the decoder). 
There are no off smells or other signs of infection. Where should I pitch the 
starter? Into my wort or out of the window? Thanks in advance for your advice. 

Not worrying, but wish I had a homebrew.  

squid@zen.radiology.arizona.edu 

------------------------------ 

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 09:17:30 PDT 
From: jwhite@anovax.enet.dec.com 
Subject: Hard Cider recipie 

	  For this recipie to turn out well DO NOT use the pasturized 
	apple juice you find all year round in the stores. My batch last year 
	took about 3 weeks before it was totally done fermenting. You will 
	notice an unpleasent smell during this time, but you can ignore it. 
	 
	  Boy, does this turn out great!!! 

 

    CAUTION PLEASE DRINK THIS STUFF WITH ANOTHER MEANS OF GETTING HOME. 
  
       ingredients 
    5 gallons sweet cider 
    3 lbs brown sugar 
    3 lbs honey 
    2 pkg champagne yeast 
       
    directions. 

     Using 5 gallon glass carbuoy strain 3 gallons of cider into carbuoy, 
    the finer the mesh the better, pulp will make the concoction smell 
    rank. Strain approx .5 gallon in pot on stove and heat enough 
    to allow the sugar and honey to be disolved thoroughly.  Pour mixture 
    in carbuoy and finish filling the carbuoy to just bellow the neck. 
    You will have some cider left over so don't waste it, drink it. 
    Pitch the yeast and stopper the carbuoy with an airlock.  Watch it 
    go, and when fermentation stops, bottle cider in what ever size jugs 
    you want.  Be sure the fermentation process has stopped before 
    bottling.  In 12 oz bottles add .25 tsp sugar, for quarts add .50 
    tsp and for gallons add 1 tsp.  this will add a little carbonation 
    and prevent spoillage (vinegar)                 
     
    	have fun 
      

------------------------------ 

Date: 28 Sep 90 12:49:49 EDT (Friday) 
From: dw <wegeng@arisia.xerox.com> 
Subject: Brewing Talk @ Xerox PARC 

Readers in the SF Bay area may be interested in the following: 

Date:   Thursday, Ocober 4, 1990 
Time:   4:00 - 5:00 
Place:   Xerox PARC Auditorium 

Speaker:  David W. Nehrkorn, Lockheed Corporation 
Title:  "Zymurgy n. Technological chemistry that deals with fermentation 
processes in brewing" 

The making of beer is an ancient art.  It has only been within the past 100 
years that we  have made an effort to understand the chemistry behind it -- 
and we have only scratched the surface.  This presentation will be in two 
parts, a poster session and a lecture.  The poster session will graphically 
describe the various steps involved in the production of beer.  In 
addition,  several varieties of hops and malted barley (roasted and 
unroasted) will be on display.  Everyone is encouraged to pinch the hops 
and smell the pungent hop resins and essential oils.  Chew some barley (it 
tastes much like cereal) -- don't be bashful!  This will be a self-paced 
tour. 

The lecture will be more traditional.  The chemistry of the four basic beer 
ingredients:  barley, hops, yeast and water will be discussed.  Emphasis 
will be placed on the composition of each and how the brewer can manipulate 
this composition to achieve the desired flavor for his beer while reducing 
the risk of contamination and the productuin of "off-flavors".  Finally, 
the synergistic relationship of all of the ingredients will be discussed. 

This  Forum is OPEN.  All are invited, but seating is limited and doors 
will be closed when available seats are taken.   Refreshments will be 
served at 3:45 pm. 

Hosted by Sally Peters and Giuliana Lavendel  (PARC Information Center, 
415-494-4994 or 494-4040)  

The PARC Auditorium is located at 3333 Coyote Hill Rd. in Palo Alto.  We 
are between Page Mill Road (west of Foothill Expressway) and Hillview 
Avenue, in the Stanford Research Park.  From Page Mill Road, turn onto 
Coyote Hill Road.  Drive up Coyote Hill past the horse pastures; PARC is 
the only building on the left, just past the crest of the hill.  Park in 
the large parking lot, and enter the auditorium at the upper level of the 
building.  The auditorium entrance is located down the stairs and to the 
left of the main doors from the outside of the building. 

[Too bad I'm located in NY, for it sounds like an interesting talk 
(especially for novice brewers).] 

/Don 

------------------------------ 

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 12:11:10 mdt 
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583) 
Subject: Re: Priming 

 
Steve writes: 
>I assume that you keggers out there don't prime, so 
>you can skip this. 

Not true.  Although you can artificially carbonate when you keg, I prefer 
natural carbonation and thus prime even when I keg. 

>	What works best - malt or corn sugar, and how much.  Is there any 
>difference in sediments, carbonation or head ? I'm about to bottle my fourth 
>batch and would appreciate any advice that I could get. 

I had not quite gotten the bugs out of priming with malt when I switched over 
to kegging so I don't have much data here, however, the main thing to 
remember when priming with malt is that corn sugar is 100% fermentable 
sugar and malt extract is not.  I've been told that the conversion ratio 
is 20% more dry malt extract by weight should be used, but as I have 
already said, I don't have much data on how well this works. 

>	Also - what the hell is this Wyeast (?) and why would it be better 
>than the EDME dry yeast that I'm using.  I guess I don't understand the 
>concept of the packet that swells and the steps that you go through before 
>you pitch the yeast.  Is this Wyeast liquid yeast (?). 

Yes, Wyeast is liquid yeast.  It is also known as Brewer's Choice. 
The main advantage with liquid yeast is that it is much less likely 
to contain wild yeasts and bacteria than dry.  I've read that switching to 
liquid yeast is the biggest improvement you can make in terms of 
improving your beer flavor, but since I've only recently changed to 
liquid yeast (and my beer is still conditioning) I cannot give you 
a first-hand account.  I suggest you give Wyeast a try and see if you 
like it.  Regarding the steps you go through, you simply bash the heel of 
your palm against the package and wait for the package to swell.  Then 
you can either pour the yeast into a starter, or right into the carboy. 
Notice that the temperature and the age of the yeast will affect the 
time it takes the package to swell up, but the date code helps you 
guesstimate when you should start the incubation if you want to pitch 
on a particular day. 

Al. 

 

------------------------------ 

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 11:36:57 PDT 
From: nick@mips.com (Nick Dais) 
Subject: Re: Slugs and Beer 

 
>ABSTRACT:  A series of field trials were conducted to determine the 
>attractiveness of various malt beverages and fermentation products to 
>Deroceras species garden slugs. 
>Among the beers tested are Rainer, Strohs, Schaefer, Bud, Bud Light, Pabst 
>Blue Ribbon, Coors, Coors Light, Miller, Michelob, Kingsbury Malt Beverage. 

At last, A good use has been found for these wonderful beers!! 

- ------------------------------------------- 
 - Nick Dais         Mips Computer Systems - 
 - {decwrl,ames,pyramid,prls}!mips!nick    - 
 - or nick@mips.com        (408) 524-8075  - 
- ------------------------------------------- 

------------------------------ 

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 12:52:22 PDT 
From: John S. Watson - FSC <watson@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov> 
Subject: Maltose 

 
This weekend I went to an oriental market near here (Mountain View, CA).  
There, next to the honey, I found "Maltose".  This is only 99 cents  
for a 17.5 oz. container (that's about $0.91 per pound).   
The homebrew supplier is currently 6 pound per containers for $10.95,  
(which works out to about $1.83 per pound).   

Taking one home, I opened it and found it smells and tastes  very 
similar to the more expensive extracts from my homebrew supplier,  
the only difference was it seemed sweeter.   
The list of ingredients: RICE, MALT. 

Looking at Papazian and Miller's books, it looks like its 
a mixture of rice and malt syrup. Papazian says (p. 84): 
"Rice and barley syrup are sometimes available at health food 
stores and stores specializing in Japanese cuisine. Its use in homebrewing 
is relatively unheard of; in fact, I've never even heard of its use in  
brewing until right now. But I can only imagine that it would be very 
suitable to a certain degree for homebrewing and would likely add a 
pleasant character to the beer.  Try it in small amounts when first  
experimenting in order to get an indication of the direction that the  
flavor of your beer will take given its addition." 

Miller seem more careful, saying you should only use BREWERS's rice syrup  
"whose sugar profile approximates that of beer wort". 

Anyway, has anyone out there ever used this or similar? 
I figure it might be useful as an adjunct.  If your recipe calls  
for 7 pounds of extract, and you only have 6, etc.  I think I'd feel better 
about using a pound of it rather than a pound of corn sugar. 
(Once I added a pound of Kyro syrup to increase the S.P. (it was  
after 5pm on a Sunday).  The beer turned out fine, but it worried me  
to add so much corn sugar to the wort (also, Kyro lists vanilla  
as an ingredient, which is a no-no)). 

But how far could I push it? 100%, 50-50? 

Lastly, every oriental markets I visited this weekend carried the same 
brand and same package size of Maltose, 17.5 oz. imported from China. 
Is there any American brands of Maltose?  Seems like there would be some  
savings in not having to haul it across the ocean, and having less packaging. 

Also, if you've never been to an oriental market,  do it 
its an experience in itself.   

John S. Watson, Civil Servant from Hell    ARPA: watson@ames.arc.nasa.gov  
                                           UUCP: ...!ames!watson 
Homebrew Naked! (-: but be careful around hot stuff :-) 

 
------------------------------ 

Date: 01 Oct 90 17:43:53 EDT 
From: Jay Hersh <75140.350@compuserve.com> 
Subject: Sweetness & Temperature, etc.. 

Mike S. asked about sweetness & temp. To the best of my knowledge and experience 
(especially with Dr. Beer Sessions) he had the effect right.  
Ones ability to sense sweet diminshes with decreasing temperature, thus 
changing the hop/malt balance perceived. This is why different styles have 
various consumption temps (ie British ales 50-55, Bud 40-45 etc..) 

WRT to cold conditioning Alts, Norm should I let them carbonate at room temp 
first then give them the 4 weeks at the colder temps, or should I cold age 
them assuming that some carbonation will occur during that period. I have  
cold aged beers with lager yeast at similar temps for up to 3 months, but  
in that case the lager yeasts remained active enough during the aging period 
to carbonate the beer. My understanding is that I should not expect a similar 
effect from ale yeasts. Any clues?? 

PS Norm these reviews are great, especially the homebrew hints. 

A note on cider. I have never boiled my juice, and have always just tossed  
in the yeast (typically Red Star champagne). This has always worked fine 
and I have never encountered sulfury smells (though I have with lagers and 
they have always gone away towards the end of the ferment period).  
While apple cider does have wild yeasts in it, who knows which ones will  
take hold and whether they will be clean and produce tasty results. I prefer 
to choose the yeast and add it in a viable amount. 

Florian, glad I could help view things in perspective. Too bad that there will  
always be inflated claims about product qualities, and pressures to sell  
premature products. I suspect the source of your headaches may very well be 
yeast by-product chemicals (I've occasionally experienced this effect with  
some homebrews) and probably is a result of yeast strains or brewing practices. 
People are obviously sensitive to these to different levels. It seems  
unfortunate for you that due to the yeast strains or brewing practices used 
here you end up suffering for your metabolism. I have on occasion experienced  
the effect you describe, though it has typically been rare. Guess you'll just  
have to stick with homebrewing so you can control the process to your enjoyment. 

 
------------------------------ 

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 16:35 MDT 
From: "SIXTO A. GONZALEZ" <SIXTO@cc.usu.edu> 
Subject: Chimay recipe. 

Greetings; 
	This is my first post to the digest althought I've been reading 
it for several months. I have two questions that perhaps some fellow 
brewer can suppy me with answers: 
	1.) where can i get a recipe for chimay, or trappist style, 
		ale. Has anyone tried to make a beer in this style. 
		I had a bottle of this a couple of months ago and it 
		was great stuff, so I saved the yeast and my wife, who 
		is a biochemist, has been culturing the critters for  
		me. After watching last weeks beer hunter, I'm now on a 
		mission to make this beer.  
	2.) I'm also on the look-out for weizen beer glassware. A friend 
		of mine gave me two he brought from germany and these 
		glasses are great for homebrew.(the ones with the .5  
		liter mark 3/4 ways up the glass.) Has anyone seen 
		these in  some sort of kitchen or homebrew supply 
		catalog. ( my problem is any type of beer supplies 
		are not readily available in Utah) 
thanks in advance, best regards 
				Sixto 

------------------------------ 

Date: 1 Oct 90 18:56:00 EDT 
From: "FEINSTEIN" <crf@pine.circa.ufl.edu> 
Subject: Pyment; brewpubs; trub 

Hi there! 

Well, I started a batch of pyment (mead made with grape juice) a week ago, and 
can't wait to see how it turns out.  I had several pounds of wild grapes 
picked at a friend's house, of a Scuppernong variety.  Squeezed with a food 
mill, they yielded around 2.5 cups of juice, which was used in conjunction with 
water.  I used 2 lbs of gallberry honey to make a final total of one gallon, 
and Montrechet yeast.  For tannins, I boiled some of the skins.  I also added a 
little lemon juice.  

Btw-- I was planning on boiling the juice anyway, to eliminate any possiblity  
of contamination by wild yeasts.  I know this sets the pectins, but I'd rather  
have a cloudy mead than a contaminated one.  That's why I went ahead and  
boiled some of the skins for the tannins. 

I've racked the mead but once, and it's still fermenting quite merrily.  So,  
it has a ways to go.  But it smells *wonderful*! 

Been thinking about the ongoing thread about the quality of brew in many  
brewpubs.  I'm really disappointed to say so, but based on what's being served  
in the local brewpub I have to agree.  It's not bad beer, but not what I had  
anticipated drinking.  I find that if Bass is on tap, I'd rather order that. 

Haven't drunk enough to find out if it gives me a headache, thankfully!  :-) 

Finally, a query:  of the possible components of the trub (hops bits,  
precipitated proteins, bits of adjuncts, etc.), which contribute what  
undesirable effects?  For example, which components are likely to contribute  
to fusel alcohol formation?  Which to off flavors? 

If someone could sort of outline things for me, I'd appreciate it. 

Thanks in advance! 

 
                         Yours in Carbonation, 

                                      Cher  

 
"Admirals don't drive ships; they fly desks." -- My roommate 
============================================================================= 

	Cheryl Feinstein              INTERNET:  CRF@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU 
	Univ. of Fla.                 BITNET:  CRF@UFPINE 
	Gainesville, FL 

 
------------------------------ 

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 90 16:13:38 PDT 
From: polstra!norm@uunet.UU.NET (Norm Hardy) 
Subject: Germany - Part 4 

The city of Munich is quite large, and in the summer time is loaded with 
tourists, many of which speak English.  The brewing legacy is world famous 
and for very good reasons.  The hotels were expensive and the hosts (at 
least ours, near the train station) rude.  But the beer... 

The people of Munich love to drink beer, and much of it.  So, alcohol 
levels are generally lower than in other parts of Germany.  A Duesseldorf 
cousin bragged how he and a Bavarian had a drinking contest, upon which the 
Bavarian landed under the table first because of the higher alcohol of 
the beer which he wasn't used to.  What a waste of good beer.... 

Beer gardens are good places to drink.  Lowenbrau (not related to USA) owns 
several and serves an okay helles.  Okay compared to some others. 

The world famous Hofbrahaus is over 500 years old and is inhabited by drunk 
Americans.  The beer is served in 1 liter (mass) glass steins and goes down 
very smoothly.  It takes 2 liters before one starts to feel the effect.  That's 
half a gallon folks.  Their beer was my least favorite in Munich. 

The helles style beer is a very pale lager, lightly hopped, and very malty. 
It is totally delicious when served fairly cold.  The SMOOOOOOOTHNESS is 
amazing. 

Some common brewing names come from Munich:  Paulaner, Spaten, Hacker-Pschorr, 
Lowenbrau, Ayinger, and Andechs.  There are others as well. 

Homebrew hints:  use a good Bavarian yeast (2206 Wyeast for one), mash at 
higher temperatures to produce more body in the beer, lightly hop (1 - 1.5 oz 
Hallertauers) mostly for bittering, perhaps a little for finishing.  Ferment 
near of below 50f and be patient.  Condition the secondary in the 40's.  Wait 
at least 5 weeks before considering bottling or kegging.  Medium carbonation 
is best.  Keep the bottled beer cold (50 or below) until carbonated, perhaps 
3 to 4 weeks.  Be patient.  If you have good sanitation and your un - 
housebroken Rottweiler puppy is out of the way for awhile you should have 
an excellent beer. 

The best beer I had in Munich came up at the Andech's Monastary, about 45 
minutes SW of Munich.  But, I'll save that for the next submission, as 
this one is long enough already, and Andech's deserves all the attention 
I can give it. 

Norm Hardy 

------------------------------ 

Date: 	Mon, 1 Oct 1990 13:26:06 -0400 
From: hplabs!ames!gatech!bnr-vpa!bnr-rsc!crick (Bill Crick) 
Subject: kegging vs bottling 

COntinuing on the thread about bottling vs kegging. Some people 
have mentioned the time savings with  kegging. This could be true, but  
the other day, I was poking around in the beer room looking for a  
bottle of '87 Cherries in the Snow, which I found, and it was as 
good as the Frambiose (SP?) I had later that night. While  
poking around, I rediscovered a case containing 4 Bottom of the Box Ale 
from 86, and a sixpack of Billsburg Gold from who knows when. THis is  
one of the nice things about bottling. You can hide a number of bottles 
of beers that will age well, and enjoy them years later. I wouldn't 
have tied up a keg for four years to save four glasses of Bottom of the Box, 
but I'm sure glad I saved a few!  

Bill Crick Brewius, ergo save sum! 

 

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End of HOMEBREW Digest #508, 10/02/90 
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