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HOMEBREW Digest #0465
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 90/07/23 03:21:54
HOMEBREW Digest #465 Mon 23 July 1990
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
homebrew as craft or art, not science (Dick Dunn)
Hayes Homebrew Supply (814) 867-775" <BLI@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Brick Malt and Dictionaries (Mike Zentner)
framboise (Donald P Perley)
Re: Quick maturing mead/melomel? (Chris Shenton)
Homebrew in Virginia (Brian Glendenning)
brain-disengaged postings and homegrown hops (Pete Soper)
Grain Mills (Rick Myers)
various (florianb)
mead (florianb)
Cornelius keg query (Mark.Leone)
Trisodium Phosphate (Jeff Benson)
Crushing grains (Gerald Andrew Winters)
Meads, don't rush em (Jay H)
Palstic water carbouys (nntas)
re: Coors announcment (Mike Northam ext 2651)
brewpubs & breweries in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh (David Coombs)
Re: Homebrew Digest #460 (July 16, 1990) (Brian Rice)
Diatribe; "Beer Hunter" (CRF)
"Beer Hunter" is coming! (portal!cup.portal.com!dbell)
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Jul 90 20:59:26 MDT (Thu)
From: ames!gatech.edu!raven.eklektix.com!ico.isc.com!rcd@decwrl.dec.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: homebrew as craft or art, not science
Chris Shenton <chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes
> The recipe was amusing in its naivete, but how much better are ours? We
> don't seem to have much better of an understanding of things than he did.
I disagree rather strongly here, but perhaps you've got to have been around
homebrewing for a while to see how far it's come. We still have moderate
undocumented variations in the ingredients we buy, but it's not that bad.
We've got procedures tuned up pretty good. Sometime see if you can find a
copy of the first editions of Charlie's _Complete_Joy_... or Fred
Eckhardt's book. Those will put things into perspective...and they were
late '70's. I think back to the beer I made then...and even more, to the
procedures I was using then...yeeeek!
> The usual controversies point this out: aluminum/stainless?...
This controversy still holds in cooking in general; no reason we should be
immune to it.
>...boil the grains?...
I don't know why this one keeps coming up. It's been a fair few years
since the homebrew folks figured out that something wasn't right, par-
ticularly with amber and darker beers, and traced it down. (It took a
while because people had to have enough control over the rest of their
procedures.)
>...extract versus all-grain?...
That's a matter of how much you want to do yourself. It's not a contro-
versy over which is better (or it shouldn't be, anyway)...it's how much
work you want to expend to get a certain amount of control.
Think of it as analogous to cooking. After all, we *are* making food,
y'know. Some folks like to cook from scratch, some from mixes, some eat
out of a cardboard box.
>...And most of our ingredients -- like his
> -- don't tell us enough about themselves to allow reproducibility: what
> *is* in that can of extract? do you know what your grain's Lovibond is? How
> many of you have gotten your water analyzed?
Again, consider a cooking analogy: I can make great pies without knowing
the pH of the apples or precisely how ripe the cherries were. But I do
know that I've got Pippins and not Delicious, or Montmorency and not Bing.
In the same way, I may not know the precise details of the malt and the
hops, but I know whether I want something light or fairly dark, and I care
about whether I'm using Eroica or Saaz.
In other words, I think the pursuit of detail not only has diminishing
returns; I think we're at the point where they're starting to diminish.
Most of us aren't interested in the sort of precise reproducibility the big
commercial brewers are. We want it to be close enough that batch # 42 of
the favorite brew is pretty much the same as # 37 if we use the same
recipe, but most of us are playing around with recipes all the time
anyway. Then, too, we don't have complete control over everything. If you
get a new batch of hops that's 7.1 instead of 6.9, what are you going to do
about it?
> We need to demand that our suppliers tell us what they're selling us, and
> get more serious with our technique...
Obviously I don't agree. I don't mean that Chris is wrong; I'd just rather
not be so serious. ("Relax..." as the man says...)
>...I hate seeing First Place recipes in
> Zymurgy which say something like ``Initial Gravity: unknown''; I mean, come
> on! it must have been pure luck that the batch turned out well!...
No, why? Failing to take an initial gravity reading won't spoil the beer!
And if you forget to take the reading, are you going to toss the batch? Of
course not! They're recipes, not formulae. Take them as ideas, as
jumping-off points.
As I say, I wish you could see what it was like ten or twelve years ago...
if you could, today's procedures would look like straight science by
comparison.
---
Dick Dunn rcd@raven.eklektix.com -or- raven!rcd (303)494-0965
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 09:11 EDT
From: "JEFF BRENDLE S:(814) 867-775" <BLI@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: Hayes Homebrew Supply
In reply to the person who didn't receive their bottle caps...
I'm a Penn Stater who does all of my ordering from Pat Hayes, she is still in
business. The HHS is operated by her as a part of a natural foods place called
The Granary up in State College. I just received another box of goodies from
them last week in order to brew my Oktoberfest so I think it's safe to say they
are still in business...btw, I did get a gross of caps w/ that order so they'd
no doubt have them is stock. Best answer is give her a call at (814) 238-4844.
Jeff :-)
Jeff Brendle
Consultant, Penn State Berks Campus
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 09:32:51 -0500
From: zentner@cn.ecn.purdue.edu (Mike Zentner)
Subject: Brick Malt and Dictionaries
Brick Malt: Does anybody else have problems with the amazing
hygroscopic properties of dried malt extract? Seems like if
I don't use the whole bag and close some of it up, it solidifies.
This must be due to moisture it collects while the bag is open,
becuase I tried double bagging it and still got solids. Sure,
you can brew with it, but it becomes difficult to measure out.
I'm not ready to convert my cabinet into a dessicator, any ideas
or other experiences?
Definitioins:
If we've got to get technical on definitions, what is waste? Craig, what
do you do with the water exiting your wort cooler? If it was me, I'd
probably just let it go down the drain. In my case, then, it doesn't
matter how the exit temperature compares with the temperature of the
wort. All the enthalpy is going down the drain, no matter what. Then,
my definition of waste is how much water do I decide to run down the
drain. Using the same flow rates in both types of coolers, the double
coil where the feed is split and merged at the inlet and outlet, respectively,
would waste less water, if we go with your assumption that it would cool
the wort faster.
If the same inlet flow rate is used with both coolers, the total residence
time of the water in the cooler is the same in both cases. This would
indicate that both systems have the same capacity to absorb heat. This
would certainly be the case if you were continuously mixing your wort
while the cooling was taking place (I've never used one of these, so
I don't know if that is the procedure or not). If you don't mix the wort,
I'm not sure which would be the best cooler, but I suspect that the
one with the flow split would be better since the area in contact with
the coldest water would be less localized.
Anyhow, my point was, if one cooler cools faster than the other, unless
I'm using the hot outlet for some energy recovery elsewhere, the word
"efficient" is correct if both coolers use the same flow of water.
The value of one cooler over the other could depend on a lot of
things: relative flow rates, degree of turbulence reduced by
splitting flows, mixing the wort... Again, I don't claim to know
which is best, depending on how it is used.
You can find practical examples of both strategies
(serial and split flow) in many texts on heat exchangers.
BTW- Craig, you're right. There's a lot of great food in Champaign.
At Purdue, there's no analogy to Papa Dels, Taco Johns, or Lil Porgys.
Mike Zentner zentner@cn.ecn.purdue.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 11:06:52 EDT
From: perley@glacier.crd.ge.com (Donald P Perley)
Subject: framboise
>There is also an over-riding dryness, but I expect that to pretty much vanish
>with aging. (However, just out of curiosity: does anyone else think that
>the source of the astringincy/dryness might be the raspberry seeds that found
>their way into the fermenter?)
>What I'm thinking of doing next time is letting the raspberries ferment
>longer. Four or 5 days has been cited by some local brewers as an approximate
>maximum fermenting time, as after that period the fruit will begin to decay
>without cold storage to prevent spoilage during further maceration. Any
>comments?
According to Jackson, the Belgians put the fruit in to secondary fermentation
for months, and leave the seeds in (at least for cherry).
Were you the one who was thinking of dropping some yogurt in for
lactobaccillus? Did that work?
-don perley
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 11:17:11 EDT
From: Chris Shenton <chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Quick maturing mead/melomel?
Mark.Leone@F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU writes:
> I'm planning to try my hand at making a raspberry melomel (a mead with
> fruit). I understand many meads take at least a year of bottle
> conditioning, but that others are relatively quickly maturing.
Ha! and Ha again. A quickly maturing mead... If only there was such a thing
- -- I think we'd all go off beer and drink lots of mead.
Seriously, I made a raspberry mead/melomel. Took about 6 weeks to ferment.
It tasted pretty good right out of the fermenter, but now -- a year and a
half later -- it tastes divine. I have another mead that's about a year
old, and it's almost undrinkable; it fairly reeks of alcohol, and in
general, it's very unmellow -- simply needs more time.
> I'd like to make a quick maturing mead first, to figure out what I
> like. What ingredients should be avoided to get a quick maturing
> mead? Is the variety of honey used important here?
I think if you dropped the honey, your mead would mature rather quickly :-)
That stuff just ferments slowly. And it takes a while to mellow the flavor.
Think of it like wine, not in the same time-context as beer. I used orange
blossom honey -- more delicate than clover. Also, save yourself some money:
have you priced honey at the store?? about $3/Lb, and you need a lot of it!
Go to a healthfood coop -- I paid about $0.99/Lb. Heck, that's cheaper than
malt extract.
> Anyone have a good beginner's recipe? Any other miscellaneous advice?
> (I've read Papazian and scanned past issues of the Digest, so I have a
> reasonable grasp of the procedures involved.)
I used info from Papazian's CJOHB and Papazian & Gayre's book on mead. I
used grape tannin instead of hops to balance the sweetness (more
traditional). I also tried adding yeast (champagne, of course) and a little
sugar after the fermentation was done in order to get a sparkling mead;
didn't do anything -- probably too much alcohol. (There's a moral in there
somewhere...)
> Also, can I bottle mead in beer bottles? I have yet to find a free
> source of champagne bottles...
Sure, beer bottles are OK. Make sure the fermentation's fairly complete,
and be careful if you're going for a sparkling mead: you don't want to wait
that long and end up with bottle-rockets! I got lots of free champagne
bottles from art openings; I also like to drink champagne, so those bottles
are free, too.
Go for it -- you won't be disappointed; just impatient. If you start now,
it will be really tasty by Christmas 1991!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 11:56:54 EDT
From: Brian Glendenning <brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Homebrew in Virginia
Hi. I'm moving to Charlottesville Virginia shortly (!) and I'd like
some pointers into the homebrew scene in the "vicinity" (e.g. I'd call
Washington and maybe Baltimore in the vicinity).
I'd particularly like to know
1) Where some good Homebrew shops are
2) Where to find some good brewpubs
3) Good mailorder places for both equipment and supplies
Thanks! My first purchases are going to be a 100# bag of malted barley
(which my local homebrew store in Toronto sells for about US$0.60/# -
is this typical) a CO2 tank (I was renting here) and maybe another
cornelius keg (cylindrical pins). Oh, and a hand grain mill.
Incidentally, occasionally discussion comes up about what kind of
homebrew to serve to commercial beer drinkers. I made a party beer
that was very succesful, and pretty simple to produce. 8# pale lager
malt, 2# munich malt, lightly hopped (I don't have my notes here), MeV
liquid bavarian Lager yeast, IG=48 (yes, my sparge is still
inefficient!), fermented at ~50F in a fridge. People loved the stuff,
and I enjoyed it too. (This was supposed to be a
somewhat-lightened-oktoberfest-style beer, but since I've never had a
real Oktoberfest beer I can only report that it was malty and tasty).
Brian
- --
Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto
brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca utai!radio.astro!brian glendenn@utorphys.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 11:59:26 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper@maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: brain-disengaged postings and homegrown hops
Donald P Perley with the long memory writes:
>I am a little short fused about this because I once asked about using
>all tin solder on the copper (as is done with copper pots) and it
>generated a weeks worth of warnings about tin being an alloy of lead.
>NOT ON MY PERIODIC TABLE!
Yes, yesterday was Deja Vu day for me too, since I am the person who made
that ignorant remark about tin on Usenet a couple years ago. I certainly
wanted to leave the planet after that episode.
___Home grown hops
I have some data about home grown hops to share. I've
collected three batches of hop cones from my two Cascade plants so far. The
first batch, a whopping 5/8 oz, I tossed into a boil and so its history is
over. The second batch weighed 4 1/4 oz as picked. Sitting in a single layer
on a sheet of cardboard in my attic for
30 hours (from noon one day to 6pm the next), this set of hops dried to a
weight of 7/8 ounce. Since hops are about 80% water I think this batch has
roughly from zero to 5% moisture left. The outside temperature during drying
was about 95/70 and the temperature in the attic peaked at around 125.
The second batch weighed 11 5/8 ounces as picked and was dried during a
similar 12-6, 30 hour period. The outside temperature was about 85/65, it was
overcast the attic peaked at only 100 degrees. This batch weighed 5 3/8 ounces
after drying, so it went from about 80% to 40% moisture. The optimum from what
I've read is 10-12%, so as you can see I overshot the first batch and undershot
the second. I can see now why one would want to make a dryer of some sort - not
to gain speed but to gain consistency.
What I plan to do for the next batch picked is to segregate a small amount
with a known starting weight and do the drying over a weekend so I can check
the progress once or twice by weighing the subset group of cones. I doubt I
can get it much closer than what I got with beginner's luck but it should
help me avoid leaving too much moisture.
My strategy for storage has been to pack the cones into pint and quart
canning jars and then run a thin brass tube down the inside of the jar and
blow CO2 up from the bottom for a couple minutes while holding the lid almost
closed. I don't know how good this really is for purging the air but it's
fun, cheap and painless. I keep the jars in a freezer.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Soper (soper@encore.com) (central NC) +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 11:00:42 MDT
From: Rick Myers <cos.hp.com!hpctdpe!rcm@hp-lsd>
Subject: Grain Mills
Full-Name: Rick Myers
>From: flowers@sp1.csrd.uiuc.edu (Craig L. Flowers)
>
>A question: what are all grain brewers using to crack their grains? I think
>those coffee grinders you see in grocery stores would be great but I don't know
>how to get one or how much they would be. Most I have seen have at least three
>setting for different coarseness.
>
> -Craig (flowers@csrd.uiuc.edu)
I use a "Corona" corn mill, manufactured in Columbia. These are adjustable
from barely cracking the grain to making flour, and are available from
many homebrew supply shops and mailorder houses. I had one of the local
homebrew shops order mine. They cost from $45 to $50, with a large hopper
accessory being about $12 extra.
Rick
- --
- --
*===========================================================================*
Rick Myers
Hewlett-Packard Colorado Telecommunications Division
5070 Centennial Blvd.
Colorado Springs, CO 80919 (719) 531-4416
INTERNET: rcm@hpctdpe.hp.com
*===========================================================================*
Disclaimer: standard
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jul 90 10:53:19 PDT (Fri)
From: florianb@tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: various
In #464, Cher writes,
>Next: is there or is there not such a thing as a bag for holding adjuncts
>during the boil? Or, should I just plan on using cheesecloth when I'm ready
>to brew up my oatmeal stout?
I guess you could use a burlap toe sack to "boil" your adjuncts. But I don't
understand...You shouldn't be boiling adjuncts in any case. Steeping the
crushed (cracked) adjunct grains in hot water (170 degrees) for 20 minutes
is sufficient to derive their goodness. If you are using oatmeal, then you
had better do a mash of some sort to convert the starch to sugar (as far as
possible). Boiling the adjunct grains is going to give your brew a pucker.
Then,
>Last: any tips on freezing a Wyeast culture pending future use? For example,
>should I freeze it as is, or start the culture?
The packages of Wyeast clearly state that you shouldn't freeze the pack. It's
my understanding that freezing yeast without some sort of additive will result
in damage to the cells. Now I'm not a yeast expert and several people have
given us information on freezing yeast in HBD before. (Some cross-talk may
be helpful here.) What's wrong with refrigeration?
Florian
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jul 90 11:06:27 PDT (Fri)
From: florianb@tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: mead
Mark Leone writes:
>I'd like to make a quick maturing mead first, to figure out what I
>like. What ingredients should be avoided to get a quick maturing
>mead? Is the variety of honey used important here?
There seems to be more lore about mead making than about any other home
brewing practice. First, it doesn't take 20 years for mead to mature.
You can drink it as soon as it clears in the bottle. You won't grow hair
on your eyeballs or turn into Mr. Hyde, and you will probably enjoy the
brew. The point is that it improves with age. The Barkshack Ginger Mead
in Papazian's book is supposed to be "quick-maturing". I've used a
simple recipe calling for 3# honey/gal brew, one cup strong tea, 1 tsp
citric acid, 1/2 tsp ascorbic acid, and 1 tsp yeast nutrient. It tasted
great as soon as I bottled it. It was better after six months, and after
one year, it was in the commit sin catagory. I recommend experimentation
rather than recipe, and using your own tastes as a guide.
Then,
>Also, can I bottle mead in beer bottles? I have yet to find a free
>source of champagne bottles...
I insist on bottling it in beer bottles (Grolsh swing-tops preferred), since
it is potent stuff. To drink a whole champagne bottle of mead (and still
have your personality intact the next day) will require some assistance,
preferrably from your sex partner.
Florian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 14:20:49 EDT
From: Mark.Leone@F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU
Subject: Cornelius keg query
Just out of curiosity, is it possible to attach a normal, hand-pumped
beer tap to a Cornelius keg? I.e., if you're bringing a keg to a
party, do you have to lug along your CO_2 cylinder, etc.?
Not that I'll be able to afford a kegging system anytime soon... :-(
- Mark Leone, mleone@cs.cmu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 13:23:12 CDT
From: Jeff Benson <benson@chemsun.chem.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Trisodium Phosphate
Ken Giles wrote in HD #464:
>I have a counterflow wort chiller (copper inside) which I cleaned once with a
>bleach solution and since with trisodium phosphate (TSP). Does anyone know if
>TSP
>has the same oxidizing properties as clorine? How are other people cleaning
>their
>counterflow chillers? Miller says that caustic soda can be had at some hardware
>stores. Has anyone tried it? Seems a bit too dangerous to me, but I don't want
>to ruin my chiller (only been used twice, so far).
Trisodium phosphate is a non-oxidizing agent by virtue of the fact that
the two ions of which it is composed, sodium and phosphate, are both
electrochemically very stable. By comparison, the active ingredient in
chlorine bleach, hypochlorite ion, is electrochemically (mildly) unstable
and has a tendency to grab a couple of electrons out of whatever's handy
(a nearby copper metal atom, for example, which then picks up a water to
become blue copper hydroxide). TSP wont do that and should be safe for your
chiller. In fact "The Condensed Chemical Dictionary," 10th ed. by
Hawley states for TSP (found as: sodium phosphate, tribasic) under the
category of uses: "Water softeners; ... metal cleaner; ... food
additive;". Sounds pretty safe to me.
On the other hand, the same reference lists "caustic soda" as sodium
hydroxide, which is non-oxidizing but is strongly basic, much stronger
than bleach for equivalent concentrations in water. I'd be worried
about what such a strong caustic would do to metal, countertops, sinks,
hands, etc. if it were accidently splashed. It might clean your chiller
ok (its the same stuff as in drain cleaners) but then again it might
damage it beyond repair. I wouldn't risk it.
Jeff Benson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 14:49:25 EDT
From: gerald@caen.engin.umich.edu (Gerald Andrew Winters)
Subject: Crushing grains
Craig L. Flowers writes:
>A question: what are all grain brewers using to crack their grains?...
I use the Corona hand-crank flour mill. It took some practice and several beer
trials but now I am quite happy with it. I wouldn't dream of buying pre-crushed malt.
It is available in many homebrew supply stores around the country.
Gerald Winters gerald@caen.engin.umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jul 90 13:37:08 EDT
From: Jay H <75140.350@compuserve.com>
Subject: Meads, don't rush em
Mark Leone asks about quick maturing meads (well melomels specifically).
I have made about 1/2 dozen meads in the last 2 years. My first was
a blueberry, really harsh at first sort of like Boone's Farm (cheap
wine...). I didn't know enough at the time to let it age. I stopped
drinking it cause it wasn't too hot, but didn't pour it (good move)
After the 6-8 month mark it changed DRAMATICALLY. I had the last bottle
the other day (over 2 years old) and it was great. Sorry to say Mark
that all the other meads (cinnamon orange, cranberry, strawberry-blueberry
.....) have behaved the same way.
My recipes are fairly straightforward, 12lbs light clover steeped at
180F, yeast nutrient, hops and irish moss boiled down prior to adding
the honey and fruit to steep. They're all very simple and I can't see
any way to change the recipe to speed up the process. From what I know
about yeast biochemistry (all self taught out of College Library
Biology books at various levels) yeasts produce a variety of types of
alcohol and the concentrations of the various types have a lot to do
with the fermentable sugars. My guess is that in mead a fair number
of "higher" alcohols are produced and it requires time for these to
break down. I won't swear by that theory but it seems to be consistent
with what I have learned.
I highly advocate patience. To rush after a good mead is most likely
a waste. Your tastebuds will be duly rewarded in time.
- Jay H
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 12:31:51 PDT
From: nntas@robots.span.nasa.gov
Subject: Palstic water carbouys
Does anyone have an opinion or fact relating to the use of plastic
water carbouys for secondary fermenters? I read in Burch's book
where he seems to indicate that they are acceptable and as good as
glass. I have access to a source of cheap plastic units and I am
considering using them as backup secondaries(I already have a glass
carbouy). If they are not as good as glass how good are they?
How long could you leave beer? How well will they clean up?
Thanks alot.
Tim Sauerwein
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 13:37:13 PDT
From: Mike Northam ext 2651 <hplabs!fpssun!mbn!mbn>
Subject: re: Coors announcment
I quoted an article which said:
"Coors said the special strains of barley used in Coors products are grown
only at higher elevations in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, Idaho,
Montana and Wyoming."
Tracy Bowlin responded:
I feel compelled to dispute the information or at least clarify.
Just for your information That's not the only reason that Coors
grows in the Intermountain west and is expanding it's storage
facility. Anheiser Bush is currently constructing a large malting
plant it the city where I live, Idaho Falls, Id., this is about 130
miles from Burley.
To which I add the following additional disputation:
The Snake River Valley (where Idaho Falls, etc. is located) doesn't seem
to me to be the 'higher elevations in the Rocky Mountains' :-) (For those
who haven't been there, it's the lowest-lying land in the region, and
quite flat, though surrounded by mountains, and quite lovely in a
desert sort of way, IMHO.)
Mike Northam mbn@fpssun.fps.com Home:123 11' 40"W 45 37' 14"N
(503) 641-3151 x2651 {tektronix}!fpssun!mbn
*FPS Computing has a company spokesperson, and it's certainly not me*
"Every now and then things become clear." Jane Siberry, "The Walking"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 17:06:17 -0400
From: David Coombs <coombs@cs.rochester.edu>
Subject: brewpubs & breweries in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh
I'm expecting to visit Philadelphia and Pittsburgh in September. Which
brewpubs and breweries should I be sure to visit?
Thanks,
dave
- ---------
David Coombs Dept of Computer Science
coombs@cs.rochester.edu University of Rochester
...!{ames,rutgers}!rochester!coombs Rochester, NY 14627 USA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 90 00:58:28 -0400
From: Brian Rice <rice@zip.eecs.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Homebrew Digest #460 (July 16, 1990)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Jul 90 10:31 EST
From: CRF@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Subject: Diatribe; "Beer Hunter"
Hi there!
Regarding the ongoing "diatribe" discussion, and John DeCarlo's comments in
dig #464: firstly, I agree with him; secondly, he's right about how serious
cooks handle their ingredients.
Before taking this any further, let me say that I spent 17 1/2 years in a
family restaurant business, am a serious cook with a serious interest in
cookery of all eras and cultures (you should see my cookbook library!!), and
have cooked for up to 250 people (approximately) at a time in the SCA.
Historically, the concept of measurements in cookery is very new, dating from
sometime around the 19th Century. Take a look at medieval, or later, cookery
manuscripts and you'll see things like: "take your chicken, kill him and
pluck him, and put him to boil with onions and such spices as please you."
Traditionally, it was taken for granted that the cook knew what he or she was
doing, and that no further information would be needed.
Experienced cooks today behave in much the same manner. I, myself, don't
very often reach for measuring instruments in cooking unless cooking
something delicate like pastry, where proportions of ingredients can be
critical. (N.B.-- brewing pretty much does fall into this category for me;
I do measure my grains and such, but will guesstimate such things as how many
of them there hops pellets makes half of the ounce). This is because
experience has taught me to eyeball measurements pretty accurately.
An anecdote illustrating this: a friend of mine used to work in the
historical re-enactment settlement at (if I remember correctly) Jamestown.
She told me about another worker there who had been the local
"housewife/baker" figure for years, cooking and baking at an open hearth. A
reporter was doing a story on the settlement and was interviewing this woman,
who was making bread for demonstration purposes during the interview. The
woman scooped up a double-handful of flour, eyed it critically, and said
"That's about 4 cups of flour." The reporter scoffed. A measuring cup was
produced, the woman repeated her actions, and the flour was measured. She
was right to within a tablespoonful or two.
Ask any experienced cook how long to cook something, and the answer is likely
to be, "until it's done."
Thus, I am of the view that in brewing one attempts to produce *virtually*
the same taste/flavor every time, not *precisely* the same taste/flavor. To
me, this is where much of the challenge and fun lies. "Precisely" the same
is (IMHO) for mass-produced commercial products.
This is not to say, however, that I don't think we should be provided with
more information on brewing supply labels. I very much do! After all,
another aspect of serious cookery is the development of the ability to gauge
and use *quality* ingredients.
So, all in all, I shall continue to approach brewing the same way I approach
cooking: as being as much an art and skill as it is a science, with plenty
of room for variation and creativity. Thinking in exact balances and parts
per million is something I do at work; I refuse to do it during my fun!
Elsewhere in the news: I subscribe to _TDC_, the Discovery Channel magazine.
August's issue arrived in yesterday's mail. So: Jackson's "The Beer Hunter"
will be airing Thursdays at 10:30 PM, beginning August 23rd, with episodes
repeated the following Saturdays (Sunday mornings, actually) at 2:30 AM.
Each episode is 1/2 hour long. The first is "Burgundies of Belgium" and the
second (Aug 30th/Sept 1st) is "California Pilgrimage."
If enough people indicate that they would like me to do so, when next month's
issue comes out I'll post the airdates and titles of the other 4 episodes.
Also: the cover story of this issue is billed as "Brewmasters: Revival on
Tap", and is entitled "Pint-sized Brewing." While I haven't had time to
actually read the article yet, it appears to focus on the smaller commercial
breweries, micro-breweries, beer-pubs, and the growth of the latter 2
entities in this country. As the articles which appear in _TDC_ are almost
invariably excellent, I feel pretty confident in recommending the article
without having read it yet.
Yours in Carbonation,
Cher
"God save you from a bad neighbor and from a beginner on the fiddle." --
Italian proverb
=============================================================================
Cheryl Feinstein INTERNET: CRF@PINE.CIRCA.UFL.EDU
Univ. of Fla. BITNET: CRF@UFPINE
Gainesville, FL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Jul 90 23:16:32 PDT
From: hplabs!portal!cup.portal.com!dbell
Subject: "Beer Hunter" is coming!
At last, the long-awaited running of Michael Jackson's
"The Beer Hunter" is coming to The Discovery Channel!
I just received my August-September program guide today,
and was pleased to see the announcement that the series
will be running Thursdays at 10:30 PM ET and repeated
Saturdays at 2:30 AM ET (that really seems to be Sunday
AM...), starting August 23. It will run for six weeks.
The accompanying article by Thomas Bedell was a pretty
fine introduction for the viewing public, covering
Mega-Brewers, Micro-Brewers, homebrewers, the AHA,
and Charlie Papazian, all in nine pages!
Mr. Bedell focusses quite heavily on the F. X. Matt
Brewery in Utica, NY, discussing the history of small
and large brewing in the US, and the recent immense
increase in micro-brewing. There is a nice anecdote
to start out with with Bedell's wife suggesting he try
an Anchor Steam in a restaurant on day, then telling
him he ought to start a bottle collection with the
Anchor. From there to micro-brewers, to home-brewers,
to home-brewing himself, to the kitchen spills, and
all the other places we've all been!
True beer culture coming to (some of) the great TV
wasteland! :{)
=====================================================
Dave Bell dbell@cup.portal.com
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Jul 90 15:36 EDT
From: "As I mentioned next week in my talk on reversible time..."
I've been away for awhile, so here's the catch-up:
>I always peel my ginger, then smash it, before putting it into the boil.
>Peeling ginger is indeed a pain -- if you approach it like peeling
>an orange. The trick, as I was taught in a local chinese cooking class,
>is to use a small knife held parallel to the surface, and *scrape*
>the skin off. That works better than all methods that I have tried,
>and in particular, it works better than using a potato peeler.
Being a Southpaw, I have always had trouble with potato peelers. Does anyone
know of a Left-Handed Potato Peeler? I've been able to improvise with either a
small knife or a "normal" peeler when I make Sassafras Tea (ie root beer w/o
the brewing) but instead of smashing the ginger root, wouldn't it be better to
stuff it into a food processor (not a word processor :-) and shred it evenly,
and save all the juices for the boil? Also, anyone have any good recipes for
Root Beers?
>> What are people's opinions on copper? I
>> notice all the good breweries use *large* copper boiling kettles, so
>> it can't be bad, right?
>Does anyone know if this is really true? I thought they used bronze.
If I remember correctly, copper conducts heat more evenly than most other
metals, and that's why many of the finest pots and pans have copper bottoms
(but is this why some batteries have copper tops? :-). I don't know if bronze
is better, but I prefer copper-bottomed utensils over most other types.
(I seem to be getting into this a bit late. Sorry for the duplicity) Does
anybody know about the thermoconductivity of bronze?
While I'm in a writing mood, the latest issue of Natural history has a neat
article in it about the initiation rituals of an Amazon River Tribe and how
they brew their corn beers. I think the editors read our minds! :)
Captain Kirk
AYDLETT@UNCG.BITNET
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #465, 07/23/90
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