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HOMEBREW Digest #0412
HOMEBREW Digest #412 Fri 04 May 1990
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Boulder gets a brewery (Dick Dunn)
Al & grain husks (S_KOZA)
re: Grain Husks (Enders)
RE: John Polstra's comments on aluminum kettles (D_KRUS)
Hops Growing (Paul Emerson)
Brewing to Share!!! (Enders)
Re: Oatmeal Stout (recipe) (Glenn Colon-Bonet)
Re: Grain husks (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
beer tasting (Greg Schmitz)
lactose,PVPP,aluminum,hops,Fix book,and lots of etc. (Pete Soper)
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3 May 90 02:10:40 MDT (Thu)
From: hplabs!gatech!ico.isc.com!raven!rcd (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Boulder gets a brewery
It would appear that Boulder--which is certainly the center of the universe
for homebrewing--finally has a real brewery. I've complained far too much
about the Boulder Brewery and their underhopped, overcarbonated, funky-
tasting beers (always overchilled at the brewery, to add injury to insult).
But now we have the Walnut Brewery in downtown Boulder. I doubt they'll be
selling anything off-premises for a while, if ever, but in the meantime
it looks like it's worth a visit if you're ever here in Homebrew Central.
I braved the opening-day crowds at the new brewery and tried to find a
spot momentarily quiet enough to contemplate a taster's flight of four
beers. (I didn't go for all six; I didn't have the time or concentration.)
The beers are all well made, generously hopped, in good balance, and clean.
The beers I tasted:
Buffalo Gold - about MoR in what's become a typical west-coast style
pale ale, with just the right amount of the obligatory Cascades in
the finish.
Big Horn Bitter - serious bitter amber ale. Nice body, drier than
the Gold but still an interesting finish.
Old Elk Brown Ale - light brown, reminiscent of a dark Munich lager
with ale character laid on top.
Devil's Thumb Stout - very dry, substantial stout. May have a bit too
much dark roast; I'll have to retaste this one but I'm looking
forward to it.
The beers I didn't taste: Swiss Trail Wheat Ale and The James Irish Red Ale.
(The names all refer to local stuff.)
Coming out of the gate, six beers is good. I think they can expand to
eight.
They're off to a good start. I hope they make it...Boulder has too many
people serious about good beer not to have a good local brewpub.
- ---
Dick Dunn {ncar;ico;stcvax}!raven!rcd (303)494-0965
or rcd@raven.uucp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 09:42 EST
From: <S_KOZA%UNHH.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Al & grain husks
Hi,
Just a few comments: Three Cheers to John for coming to the defense
of aluminum( hip,hip, hooray!) One of my brewing associates has brewed lots
of batches in an aluminum stock pot( about 5 yrs. worth) and I see no evidence
of pitting, which would indicate dissolution of the metal. I have recently
invested in a 6 gal heavy walled Al pot and have not noticed any of the
dreaded off flavors either.
On the question Gary had about grain husks; the first,and probably foremost,
reason for not getting rid of the husks is there essentiality in your sparging
filtration bed.(wait, is that a word?)
Happy Fermentations,
Stephan M. Koza
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 09:29:28 -0500
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: re: Grain Husks
There is a logical reason for leaving the husks on the malted barley:
Namely, they provide bulk to the mash, which facilitates sparging. If they
weren't in there, sparging the mash would probably resemble sparging Cream of
(insert the name of your favorite hot cereal here :-). So, the husks do
serve a purpose, and after all, people have been brewing for thousands of years
and if there were no need to utilize the husks, they would have been left
behind long ago.
Todd Enders arpa: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Minot State University uucp: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders@plains
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:05 EST
From: <D_KRUS%UNHH.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: John Polstra's comments on aluminum kettles
Distribution-File:
homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
To all:
John Polstra's comments on aluminum kettles was right on the
money. To look at this qualitatively, the pH of tomato juice is ca. 4.
Now, lets make spaghetti sauce. Add all of your spices and boil (simmer)
for a while. The pH is going to be less than 4 (i.e., more acidic).
According to Papazian, mashing enzymes work best around a pH of 5.4.
Even after boiling for an hour the pH isn't going to change munch. So already
I have presented a pH difference relative to time of exposure to the "acid"
(pH of 4 vs ca. 5.4 with respect to days of exposure to hours exposure,
respectively). Even after years of making spaghetti sauce in the same
aluminum pot, one does not see pitting therefore one should not see pitting
after years of boiling wort. For your beer to have a noticeably matallic
flavor you would have to actually see significant pitting of the pot since
pot pitting is indicative of the act of dissolving the pot.
Just another point: I work with trace metals in environmental samples and
when I want to keep metals in solution I have to use extremely harsh pH's
(ca. -2 to +3). This means keeping the metals dissolved.
When I get the time I will do an Atomic Absorption Spectrometric workup
for the presence of aluminum in the wort due to being boiled in an aluminum
kettle.
Dan
|--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*|
| Bitnet: D_KRUS@unhh | Daniel L. Krus |
| Internet: D_KRUS%unhh.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu| Parsons Hall |
| Compuserve: 71601,365 | Department of Chemistry |
|-----------------------------------------------| U of New Hampshire |
| "Think as men/women of action, | Durham, New Hampshire 03824 |
| act as men/women of thought. | (603) 862-2521 |
|--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 10:48:46 EST
From: hplabs!gatech!mailrus!uflorida!ucf-cs!sdgsun!paul (Paul Emerson)
Subject: Hops Growing
In regards to the recent hops growning questions, I thought I would share
my growing experiences.
I live in Orlando Florida and I have been growing hops for the past
3 years. I've only grown Cascade, which seems to have done quite well
here despite the high temperatures in the summer.
Hops rihzomes (roots) are usually sold and planted in the
spring. I bought 5 rihzomes and planted them in various locations around my
property. Only one survived. The sun was just a little too hot and direct
for my other locations. My survivor is on the shaded West side of my house,
so it isn't baked 12 hours a day. I try to keep the soil moist by
flooding the growing area when needed (every other day here in the summer).
The first year I the vine got about 15' and the yield was about 1/2 oz. The
cones were ok, but not of the density and size I have seen from commercial
growers. The vine dies back in the winter. I cover up the exposed root
clump until spring when I expose it a bit and start to water. The second
year the growth was about 40' and could have been longer but I pruned the
vine so it would branch out and I could get a greater yield. Like most
plants the growth near the growing tip gets more of the good stuff. So
the cones tended to get smaller and less dense in proportion to the distance
from the growing tip.
As for a trellis, I used a rig illustrated below:
^
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
-------------
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
This consisted of a pole with strings hanging down and is suspend from
two others that meet at the top. At the apex I have another line that
runs through a pulley down to a stake at the ground. This whole thing
is attached to an eye screw attached near the top of my chimney. The
design allows me to raise the climbing trellis higher each year while
being able to lower the whole thing for harvesting. I have also sometimes
tied horizontal stings to form a net like arrangement for some lateral
growth.
Usually I harvest cones when they are full and are swollen with their
yellow sacks. I generally cut a vine off at a branching point allowing
other areas to get more nutrients. I continue this through the summer.
Last year I got about 6 oz from my single vine. I spread the cones out
on a screen in a raise frame and let them air dry for a few days. Then
I seal them in freezer wrap and foil; label them and into the freezer.
It's not a large quantity but there is the satisfaction of having done it
yourself.
A friend has informed me that Barley, Malt and Vine has a book on growning
hops.
- --
Paul J. Emerson SDG Division of SAIC
Senior Technical Manager 450 Lakemont Ave.
UUCP:{ucf-cs|tarpit}!sdgsun!paul Winter Park, FL 32792
CIS: 72355,171 (407) 657-1300
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:03:16 -0500
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Brewing to Share!!!
After my experience of this weekend, I'm facing a dilema. I took a
few bottles of my latest batch over to some friends, to introduce them to
the wonderful world of homebrew. However, these folks aren't "beer literate"
(i.e Coors & Bud fans all :^). The general consensus was that everything
I offered them to taste (my own IPA, Bass for comparison, and Anchor porter
for something a little bit different) was "way too bitter" (my brother made
some comment about being served brake fluid :^).
I have had good luck in the past serving Mckesson stout, most imported
lagers, etc. (although, I wouldn't lay Pilsner Urquel on them :-) But, sweet
stout and lager are a bit difficult to brew one's self, if you aren't set up
for it. So, I'm wondering what the collective feeling of the net is on
brewing an ale (or steam beer) that is drinkable by the BudCoorsMiller fans,
but is an example of something better, something different.
I think a plausable set of requirements would be as follows:
1. must be moderately hopped (prob. 6.5-10 AAU / 5gal.)
2. Should be *pale* in color (i.e. should "look like beer")
3. Should have good body, good aroma, good flavor (maybe with a hint
of sweetness?).
This is just a thought. How do YOU deal with introducing homebrew to
the *unwashed masses*? If YOU had to brew something to please total
strangers, what would it be? I'm open to suggestions/ideas/etc.
BTW: The consensus was that my IPA was *real* close to Bass, although
a touch more bitter (fine by me :-).
Todd Enders arpa: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center uucp: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University Bitnet: enders@plains
Minot, ND 58701
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:48:01 mdt
From: Glenn Colon-Bonet <gcb@hpfigcb.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Oatmeal Stout (recipe)
Full-Name: Glenn Colon-Bonet
- --------
In Homebrew Digest #411, Kevin McBride asks for Oatmeal Stout recipes.
This is my attempt to duplicate the flavor of Watneys Cream Stout.
It came out a little on the thin side, but the flavor is almost
right on the money! The recipe calls for using both oatmeal and
lactose. Lactose is used in sweet stouts to give it a creamy sweet
taste, while the oatmeal adds a silky smoothness to the palate/flavor.
You can adjust the amounts of lactose and oatmeal in the recipe to
taste. The recommended amounts of lactose from various books seems
to be around 8 oz. One pound of oatmeal seems to be about right, but
you may want to be careful about increasing it very much because of its
oil/protein content. The beer from this recipe came out great!
I can't wait to go tap off a glass of this stuff tonite!
Enjoy!
-Glenn
============================================================
April 1, 1990 Batch #29
Stout All Grain Cream of Oats Stout
Ingredients
6 lbs Klages 2 row pale malt
1/2 lb Dextrin malt
1 1/8 lb rolled oats
1/2 lb Crystal malt
1/2 lb Chocolate malt
1/4 lb Roasted Barley
1 oz Cluster hops (boiling) alpha=7.4
1/2 oz. Cascade hops (finishing)
10 oz. Lactose
1/2 tsp Irish moss
German Ale yeast (wyeast #1007)
Recipe
Dough in with 3 qts cold water. Raise temp to 153
F, hold for 2 hours or until iodine test indicates
complete conversion. Rouse and transfer to
lauter-tun, sparge to yield 7 gallons wort, boil
for 1 hour adding boiling hops. Add finishing
hops and Irish moss at 10 minutes. Sparge, cool
and pitch.
Original Gravity: 1.040
- April 8, 1990 -
Gravity Reading: 1.018
- April 25, 1990 -
Gravity Reading: 1.015
- April 30, 1990 -
Finishing Gravity: 1.015
Kegging:
Pressure Carbonated.
Comments:
Very smooth, silky mouth feel. Great flavor, nice
sweetness with mild roasted malt flavors. Some-
what thin for style, use Ale malt next time, use
more dextrin and pale malts, and mash at higher
temp? Overall, a very nice beer!
============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:58:01 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Grain husks
<mason@habs11.enet.dec.com> writes:
>why not separate the husks prior to mashing?
The husks contribute to the filter bed that you need during sparging.
Al.
P.S. I believe Polyclar is food grade polyethylene powder. I personally
wouldn't mess with trying to get "something close" from a chemical
supplier. Remember, you are what you eat.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 14:55:03 PDT
From: greschm@Sun.COM (Greg Schmitz)
Subject: beer tasting
Seventh Annual Beer Tasting
May 5 7:00-11:00pm
Fort Mason Building A, San Francisco
415-421-5271
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 00:11:25 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper@maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: lactose,PVPP,aluminum,hops,Fix book,and lots of etc.
>$
>$ I'm planning to add some lactose in the next batch, to get a little
>$ more sweetness in the beer. I'm not sure, however, of the orders
>$ of magnitude to use. Is it in spoonfuls, cupfuls or pounds :-)?
>$ For example, is one cup a reasonable amount? Thanks.
>I too, am interested in various ways of sweetening beer. The Lactose
>idea doesn't really thrill me though. I think what I would really
>like to do is mash a small amount of grain at a higher temperature
>to produce some unfermentables. The question is "How Much?"
I'm told that some makers of sweet stout add lactose to the boil. For that
matter a lot of breweries use various kinds of sugars as adjuncts. We should
get over our automatic reflex about the use of sugars or at least make the
distinction between various types and relative amounts. After all the major
constituent of barley malt extract is the sugar maltose.
I think that for certain beer styles lactose may be the right
thing to use to add sweetness. Here are some numbers from Line's "The Big Book
of Brewing": In "Dark Ale", a brown ale, 12 oz. In "McKinlay", a sweet stout,
one pound. In "Baltic Black Stout", 8 ounces. All these are for 4 imperial
gallons (5 US gallons).
>It finally happened little hop buds have erupted from the soil
>in my garden. Now I need to make somthing for them to climb on.
For two plants next to my house I drove nails into the side of the roof
and strung green nylon string down to stakes next to the plants. They are
winding their way up the strings nicely. For three plants in the back yard I
strung a string between two trees and about 12 feet above the bed, then
strung additional strings down from the horizontal one to stakes next to each
plant. This is what "real beds" look like in the pictures I've seen but I
think the cross pieces are wire instead of string and they are more like 18
feet up (and between poles, not trees).
My tallest Cascade grew 10 inches in the past 24 hours and is now 6 feet
tall. (Planted about 6 weeks ago)
> Just wondering, does anybody know what is the chemical name of Polyclar?
PVPP is the other name I've seen for Polyclar AT. Powdered Nylon 66 was also
used by breweries before Polyclar was developed. PVPP stands for
polyvinylpolypyrrolidone.
>stopped. The only truly reliable way to determine when fermentation is
>done (and avoid making glass grenades) is to get a stable final gravity
>(same reading over 24 hours) in the expected ballpark.
It is that "in the expected ballpark" that is the sticky bit. Use dark malts,
maltodextrin or lactose (see above) and the original/final gravity ratio
gets thrown off. With all-grain or partial mash recipes the effect is just
not deterministic until you get the hang of mashing. While I was thrashing
around exploring sugar rest limits last year I made beer that started at 1.050
and ended at 1.019 one time and that started at 1.050 and ended at 1.006
another time. I would have been up the creek either way if I expected the
usual 1/4 gravity end point. Certain yeasts can produce significantly
different ending gravities too.
I've found that "Dextrocheck", "Clinitest" or a similar diabetes test is
*the* trivial way to diagnose how much sugar is really left in the beer.
> 2. The amount of aluminum that you get from using aluminum cookware
> is negligible. You get far more aluminum from a single Tums (or
> other antacid tablet) than you get from a year of using nothing but
> aluminum cookware.
Seeing as how you've gone out on a limb, I'll join you and we can try out
this saw I brought. You have forgotten the drastic difference in pH between
normal foods and wort. What does the inside of your pot look like above and
below the high water mark? Is it shiny below and the usual dull color of
oxidized aluminum above? Have you thought about weighing it from time to
time? (big big :-)
And I suppose that the aluminum compound you get from cooking with aluminum
is the same compound as found in Tums (with very tight chemical bonds)? Not
bloody likely.
But it is interesting to read that you taste no difference. Others have said
the impact on beer flavor is drastic.
Now where did I put that PET bottle of homebrew :-)
>I have been reading up on all-grain brewing, and one constant seems to be that
>you don't want to powder the grain husks. Their main contribution seems to be
>unwanted tannins. There is never any mention of good contributions from the
>husks. If that is true (if not, can someone enlighten me?), why not separate
>the husks prior to mashing? A picture of winnowing wheat comes to mind.
The husks are needed to create a filter bed for sparging. With a proper grind,
if you keep the pH down below 6, don't use too much sparge water and keep it
under 74 degrees C and DON'T AERATE THE HOT WORT you won't have problems with
tannins. If the husks are powdered a faulty filter bed is created and powdered
husk (called draff) will get into the wort and end up being boiled, more or
less guaranteeing a load of tannins and all their associated haze and staling
hazards.
One last item. You fiends out there need to rush to your supplier and buy
a copy of "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix. Actually, stop and ask
yourself "Do I understand basic chemistry principles or am I willing to learn
them?". If the answer is "yes", buy this book. If you aren't sure but after
reading the hard chapters in Noonan's book you said "I want more!", then buy
this book. Here is the table of contents:
Acknowledgements:
Introduction:
I. Compounds Relevant to Brewing
A. Water
B. Malt and Grains
C. Hops
D. Beer Constituents
II. Chemical Recations in Brewing
A. Enzymatic Breakdown of Starch
B. Enzymatic Breakdown of Proteins
C. Hop Transformations
D. Browning Reactions
E. Phenol-Protein Reactions
F. Redox Reactions
G. Production of Dimethyl Sulfide
III. Biochemical Reactions in Brewing
A. Yeast and Bacteria
B. An Overview of the Fermentation
C. The Initial Period
D. Respiration
E. Fermentation
F. Other Metabolic Pathways
G. Bacterial Metabolism
Appendix: Basics of Bonding and Structure
Index
Sorry for the crummy spelling, folks. It's just too darn late to run the
spelling checker. ZZZZZZ
- ----------
Pete Soper (soper@encore.com) +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #412, 05/04/90
*************************************
-------
This file received at Mthvax.CS.Miami.EDU 90/05/22 19:44:59
HOMEBREW Digest #412 Fri 04 May 1990
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Boulder gets a brewery (Dick Dunn)
Al & grain husks (S_KOZA)
re: Grain Husks (Enders)
RE: John Polstra's comments on aluminum kettles (D_KRUS)
Hops Growing (Paul Emerson)
Brewing to Share!!! (Enders)
Re: Oatmeal Stout (recipe) (Glenn Colon-Bonet)
Re: Grain husks (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
beer tasting (Greg Schmitz)
lactose,PVPP,aluminum,hops,Fix book,and lots of etc. (Pete Soper)
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3 May 90 02:10:40 MDT (Thu)
From: hplabs!gatech!ico.isc.com!raven!rcd (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Boulder gets a brewery
It would appear that Boulder--which is certainly the center of the universe
for homebrewing--finally has a real brewery. I've complained far too much
about the Boulder Brewery and their underhopped, overcarbonated, funky-
tasting beers (always overchilled at the brewery, to add injury to insult).
But now we have the Walnut Brewery in downtown Boulder. I doubt they'll be
selling anything off-premises for a while, if ever, but in the meantime
it looks like it's worth a visit if you're ever here in Homebrew Central.
I braved the opening-day crowds at the new brewery and tried to find a
spot momentarily quiet enough to contemplate a taster's flight of four
beers. (I didn't go for all six; I didn't have the time or concentration.)
The beers are all well made, generously hopped, in good balance, and clean.
The beers I tasted:
Buffalo Gold - about MoR in what's become a typical west-coast style
pale ale, with just the right amount of the obligatory Cascades in
the finish.
Big Horn Bitter - serious bitter amber ale. Nice body, drier than
the Gold but still an interesting finish.
Old Elk Brown Ale - light brown, reminiscent of a dark Munich lager
with ale character laid on top.
Devil's Thumb Stout - very dry, substantial stout. May have a bit too
much dark roast; I'll have to retaste this one but I'm looking
forward to it.
The beers I didn't taste: Swiss Trail Wheat Ale and The James Irish Red Ale.
(The names all refer to local stuff.)
Coming out of the gate, six beers is good. I think they can expand to
eight.
They're off to a good start. I hope they make it...Boulder has too many
people serious about good beer not to have a good local brewpub.
- ---
Dick Dunn {ncar;ico;stcvax}!raven!rcd (303)494-0965
or rcd@raven.uucp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 09:42 EST
From: <S_KOZA%UNHH.BITNET@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Subject: Al & grain husks
Hi,
Just a few comments: Three Cheers to John for coming to the defense
of aluminum( hip,hip, hooray!) One of my brewing associates has brewed lots
of batches in an aluminum stock pot( about 5 yrs. worth) and I see no evidence
of pitting, which would indicate dissolution of the metal. I have recently
invested in a 6 gal heavy walled Al pot and have not noticed any of the
dreaded off flavors either.
On the question Gary had about grain husks; the first,and probably foremost,
reason for not getting rid of the husks is there essentiality in your sparging
filtration bed.(wait, is that a word?)
Happy Fermentations,
Stephan M. Koza
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 09:29:28 -0500
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: re: Grain Husks
There is a logical reason for leaving the husks on the malted barley:
Namely, they provide bulk to the mash, which facilitates sparging. If they
weren't in there, sparging the mash would probably resemble sparging Cream of
(insert the name of your favorite hot cereal here :-). So, the husks do
serve a purpose, and after all, people have been brewing for thousands of years
and if there were no need to utilize the husks, they would have been left
behind long ago.
Todd Enders arpa: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Minot State University uucp: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot, ND 58701 Bitnet: enders@plains
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:05 EST
From: <D_KRUS%UNHH.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject: RE: John Polstra's comments on aluminum kettles
Distribution-File:
homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
To all:
John Polstra's comments on aluminum kettles was right on the
money. To look at this qualitatively, the pH of tomato juice is ca. 4.
Now, lets make spaghetti sauce. Add all of your spices and boil (simmer)
for a while. The pH is going to be less than 4 (i.e., more acidic).
According to Papazian, mashing enzymes work best around a pH of 5.4.
Even after boiling for an hour the pH isn't going to change munch. So already
I have presented a pH difference relative to time of exposure to the "acid"
(pH of 4 vs ca. 5.4 with respect to days of exposure to hours exposure,
respectively). Even after years of making spaghetti sauce in the same
aluminum pot, one does not see pitting therefore one should not see pitting
after years of boiling wort. For your beer to have a noticeably matallic
flavor you would have to actually see significant pitting of the pot since
pot pitting is indicative of the act of dissolving the pot.
Just another point: I work with trace metals in environmental samples and
when I want to keep metals in solution I have to use extremely harsh pH's
(ca. -2 to +3). This means keeping the metals dissolved.
When I get the time I will do an Atomic Absorption Spectrometric workup
for the presence of aluminum in the wort due to being boiled in an aluminum
kettle.
Dan
|--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*|
| Bitnet: D_KRUS@unhh | Daniel L. Krus |
| Internet: D_KRUS%unhh.bitnet@mitvma.mit.edu| Parsons Hall |
| Compuserve: 71601,365 | Department of Chemistry |
|-----------------------------------------------| U of New Hampshire |
| "Think as men/women of action, | Durham, New Hampshire 03824 |
| act as men/women of thought. | (603) 862-2521 |
|--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*|
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 10:48:46 EST
From: hplabs!gatech!mailrus!uflorida!ucf-cs!sdgsun!paul (Paul Emerson)
Subject: Hops Growing
In regards to the recent hops growning questions, I thought I would share
my growing experiences.
I live in Orlando Florida and I have been growing hops for the past
3 years. I've only grown Cascade, which seems to have done quite well
here despite the high temperatures in the summer.
Hops rihzomes (roots) are usually sold and planted in the
spring. I bought 5 rihzomes and planted them in various locations around my
property. Only one survived. The sun was just a little too hot and direct
for my other locations. My survivor is on the shaded West side of my house,
so it isn't baked 12 hours a day. I try to keep the soil moist by
flooding the growing area when needed (every other day here in the summer).
The first year I the vine got about 15' and the yield was about 1/2 oz. The
cones were ok, but not of the density and size I have seen from commercial
growers. The vine dies back in the winter. I cover up the exposed root
clump until spring when I expose it a bit and start to water. The second
year the growth was about 40' and could have been longer but I pruned the
vine so it would branch out and I could get a greater yield. Like most
plants the growth near the growing tip gets more of the good stuff. So
the cones tended to get smaller and less dense in proportion to the distance
from the growing tip.
As for a trellis, I used a rig illustrated below:
^
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
-------------
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
| | | | |
This consisted of a pole with strings hanging down and is suspend from
two others that meet at the top. At the apex I have another line that
runs through a pulley down to a stake at the ground. This whole thing
is attached to an eye screw attached near the top of my chimney. The
design allows me to raise the climbing trellis higher each year while
being able to lower the whole thing for harvesting. I have also sometimes
tied horizontal stings to form a net like arrangement for some lateral
growth.
Usually I harvest cones when they are full and are swollen with their
yellow sacks. I generally cut a vine off at a branching point allowing
other areas to get more nutrients. I continue this through the summer.
Last year I got about 6 oz from my single vine. I spread the cones out
on a screen in a raise frame and let them air dry for a few days. Then
I seal them in freezer wrap and foil; label them and into the freezer.
It's not a large quantity but there is the satisfaction of having done it
yourself.
A friend has informed me that Barley, Malt and Vine has a book on growning
hops.
- --
Paul J. Emerson SDG Division of SAIC
Senior Technical Manager 450 Lakemont Ave.
UUCP:{ucf-cs|tarpit}!sdgsun!paul Winter Park, FL 32792
CIS: 72355,171 (407) 657-1300
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:03:16 -0500
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Brewing to Share!!!
After my experience of this weekend, I'm facing a dilema. I took a
few bottles of my latest batch over to some friends, to introduce them to
the wonderful world of homebrew. However, these folks aren't "beer literate"
(i.e Coors & Bud fans all :^). The general consensus was that everything
I offered them to taste (my own IPA, Bass for comparison, and Anchor porter
for something a little bit different) was "way too bitter" (my brother made
some comment about being served brake fluid :^).
I have had good luck in the past serving Mckesson stout, most imported
lagers, etc. (although, I wouldn't lay Pilsner Urquel on them :-) But, sweet
stout and lager are a bit difficult to brew one's self, if you aren't set up
for it. So, I'm wondering what the collective feeling of the net is on
brewing an ale (or steam beer) that is drinkable by the BudCoorsMiller fans,
but is an example of something better, something different.
I think a plausable set of requirements would be as follows:
1. must be moderately hopped (prob. 6.5-10 AAU / 5gal.)
2. Should be *pale* in color (i.e. should "look like beer")
3. Should have good body, good aroma, good flavor (maybe with a hint
of sweetness?).
This is just a thought. How do YOU deal with introducing homebrew to
the *unwashed masses*? If YOU had to brew something to please total
strangers, what would it be? I'm open to suggestions/ideas/etc.
BTW: The consensus was that my IPA was *real* close to Bass, although
a touch more bitter (fine by me :-).
Todd Enders arpa: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center uucp: ...!uunet!plains!enders
Minot State University Bitnet: enders@plains
Minot, ND 58701
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:48:01 mdt
From: Glenn Colon-Bonet <gcb@hpfigcb.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Oatmeal Stout (recipe)
Full-Name: Glenn Colon-Bonet
- --------
In Homebrew Digest #411, Kevin McBride asks for Oatmeal Stout recipes.
This is my attempt to duplicate the flavor of Watneys Cream Stout.
It came out a little on the thin side, but the flavor is almost
right on the money! The recipe calls for using both oatmeal and
lactose. Lactose is used in sweet stouts to give it a creamy sweet
taste, while the oatmeal adds a silky smoothness to the palate/flavor.
You can adjust the amounts of lactose and oatmeal in the recipe to
taste. The recommended amounts of lactose from various books seems
to be around 8 oz. One pound of oatmeal seems to be about right, but
you may want to be careful about increasing it very much because of its
oil/protein content. The beer from this recipe came out great!
I can't wait to go tap off a glass of this stuff tonite!
Enjoy!
-Glenn
============================================================
April 1, 1990 Batch #29
Stout All Grain Cream of Oats Stout
Ingredients
6 lbs Klages 2 row pale malt
1/2 lb Dextrin malt
1 1/8 lb rolled oats
1/2 lb Crystal malt
1/2 lb Chocolate malt
1/4 lb Roasted Barley
1 oz Cluster hops (boiling) alpha=7.4
1/2 oz. Cascade hops (finishing)
10 oz. Lactose
1/2 tsp Irish moss
German Ale yeast (wyeast #1007)
Recipe
Dough in with 3 qts cold water. Raise temp to 153
F, hold for 2 hours or until iodine test indicates
complete conversion. Rouse and transfer to
lauter-tun, sparge to yield 7 gallons wort, boil
for 1 hour adding boiling hops. Add finishing
hops and Irish moss at 10 minutes. Sparge, cool
and pitch.
Original Gravity: 1.040
- April 8, 1990 -
Gravity Reading: 1.018
- April 25, 1990 -
Gravity Reading: 1.015
- April 30, 1990 -
Finishing Gravity: 1.015
Kegging:
Pressure Carbonated.
Comments:
Very smooth, silky mouth feel. Great flavor, nice
sweetness with mild roasted malt flavors. Some-
what thin for style, use Ale malt next time, use
more dextrin and pale malts, and mash at higher
temp? Overall, a very nice beer!
============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 11:58:01 mdt
From: hplabs!hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!ihlpl!korz (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Grain husks
<mason@habs11.enet.dec.com> writes:
>why not separate the husks prior to mashing?
The husks contribute to the filter bed that you need during sparging.
Al.
P.S. I believe Polyclar is food grade polyethylene powder. I personally
wouldn't mess with trying to get "something close" from a chemical
supplier. Remember, you are what you eat.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 90 14:55:03 PDT
From: greschm@Sun.COM (Greg Schmitz)
Subject: beer tasting
Seventh Annual Beer Tasting
May 5 7:00-11:00pm
Fort Mason Building A, San Francisco
415-421-5271
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 May 90 00:11:25 EDT
From: Pete Soper <soper@maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: lactose,PVPP,aluminum,hops,Fix book,and lots of etc.
>$
>$ I'm planning to add some lactose in the next batch, to get a little
>$ more sweetness in the beer. I'm not sure, however, of the orders
>$ of magnitude to use. Is it in spoonfuls, cupfuls or pounds :-)?
>$ For example, is one cup a reasonable amount? Thanks.
>I too, am interested in various ways of sweetening beer. The Lactose
>idea doesn't really thrill me though. I think what I would really
>like to do is mash a small amount of grain at a higher temperature
>to produce some unfermentables. The question is "How Much?"
I'm told that some makers of sweet stout add lactose to the boil. For that
matter a lot of breweries use various kinds of sugars as adjuncts. We should
get over our automatic reflex about the use of sugars or at least make the
distinction between various types and relative amounts. After all the major
constituent of barley malt extract is the sugar maltose.
I think that for certain beer styles lactose may be the right
thing to use to add sweetness. Here are some numbers from Line's "The Big Book
of Brewing": In "Dark Ale", a brown ale, 12 oz. In "McKinlay", a sweet stout,
one pound. In "Baltic Black Stout", 8 ounces. All these are for 4 imperial
gallons (5 US gallons).
>It finally happened little hop buds have erupted from the soil
>in my garden. Now I need to make somthing for them to climb on.
For two plants next to my house I drove nails into the side of the roof
and strung green nylon string down to stakes next to the plants. They are
winding their way up the strings nicely. For three plants in the back yard I
strung a string between two trees and about 12 feet above the bed, then
strung additional strings down from the horizontal one to stakes next to each
plant. This is what "real beds" look like in the pictures I've seen but I
think the cross pieces are wire instead of string and they are more like 18
feet up (and between poles, not trees).
My tallest Cascade grew 10 inches in the past 24 hours and is now 6 feet
tall. (Planted about 6 weeks ago)
> Just wondering, does anybody know what is the chemical name of Polyclar?
PVPP is the other name I've seen for Polyclar AT. Powdered Nylon 66 was also
used by breweries before Polyclar was developed. PVPP stands for
polyvinylpolypyrrolidone.
>stopped. The only truly reliable way to determine when fermentation is
>done (and avoid making glass grenades) is to get a stable final gravity
>(same reading over 24 hours) in the expected ballpark.
It is that "in the expected ballpark" that is the sticky bit. Use dark malts,
maltodextrin or lactose (see above) and the original/final gravity ratio
gets thrown off. With all-grain or partial mash recipes the effect is just
not deterministic until you get the hang of mashing. While I was thrashing
around exploring sugar rest limits last year I made beer that started at 1.050
and ended at 1.019 one time and that started at 1.050 and ended at 1.006
another time. I would have been up the creek either way if I expected the
usual 1/4 gravity end point. Certain yeasts can produce significantly
different ending gravities too.
I've found that "Dextrocheck", "Clinitest" or a similar diabetes test is
*the* trivial way to diagnose how much sugar is really left in the beer.
> 2. The amount of aluminum that you get from using aluminum cookware
> is negligible. You get far more aluminum from a single Tums (or
> other antacid tablet) than you get from a year of using nothing but
> aluminum cookware.
Seeing as how you've gone out on a limb, I'll join you and we can try out
this saw I brought. You have forgotten the drastic difference in pH between
normal foods and wort. What does the inside of your pot look like above and
below the high water mark? Is it shiny below and the usual dull color of
oxidized aluminum above? Have you thought about weighing it from time to
time? (big big :-)
And I suppose that the aluminum compound you get from cooking with aluminum
is the same compound as found in Tums (with very tight chemical bonds)? Not
bloody likely.
But it is interesting to read that you taste no difference. Others have said
the impact on beer flavor is drastic.
Now where did I put that PET bottle of homebrew :-)
>I have been reading up on all-grain brewing, and one constant seems to be that
>you don't want to powder the grain husks. Their main contribution seems to be
>unwanted tannins. There is never any mention of good contributions from the
>husks. If that is true (if not, can someone enlighten me?), why not separate
>the husks prior to mashing? A picture of winnowing wheat comes to mind.
The husks are needed to create a filter bed for sparging. With a proper grind,
if you keep the pH down below 6, don't use too much sparge water and keep it
under 74 degrees C and DON'T AERATE THE HOT WORT you won't have problems with
tannins. If the husks are powdered a faulty filter bed is created and powdered
husk (called draff) will get into the wort and end up being boiled, more or
less guaranteeing a load of tannins and all their associated haze and staling
hazards.
One last item. You fiends out there need to rush to your supplier and buy
a copy of "Principles of Brewing Science" by George Fix. Actually, stop and ask
yourself "Do I understand basic chemistry principles or am I willing to learn
them?". If the answer is "yes", buy this book. If you aren't sure but after
reading the hard chapters in Noonan's book you said "I want more!", then buy
this book. Here is the table of contents:
Acknowledgements:
Introduction:
I. Compounds Relevant to Brewing
A. Water
B. Malt and Grains
C. Hops
D. Beer Constituents
II. Chemical Recations in Brewing
A. Enzymatic Breakdown of Starch
B. Enzymatic Breakdown of Proteins
C. Hop Transformations
D. Browning Reactions
E. Phenol-Protein Reactions
F. Redox Reactions
G. Production of Dimethyl Sulfide
III. Biochemical Reactions in Brewing
A. Yeast and Bacteria
B. An Overview of the Fermentation
C. The Initial Period
D. Respiration
E. Fermentation
F. Other Metabolic Pathways
G. Bacterial Metabolism
Appendix: Basics of Bonding and Structure
Index
Sorry for the crummy spelling, folks. It's just too darn late to run the
spelling checker. ZZZZZZ
- ----------
Pete Soper (soper@encore.com) +1 919 481 3730
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #412, 05/04/90
*************************************
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