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HOMEBREW Digest #0335
HOMEBREW Digest #335 Thu 04 January 1990
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
reusable bottles (Jon Rodin)
three gallon carboy (usage questions) (tony g)
Chill Haze (Douglas J Roberts)
kegging and time (JEEPSRUS)
recycling sparge water (Douglas J Roberts)
A mashing question (Douglas J Roberts)
Re: Wyeast Problems? (Crawford.WBST129)
blackberry/honey beer (Joe)
Re: Stinky Wyeast Bavarian Lager Yeast (John Polstra)
Thomas Hardy Ale (A Recipe?) (Tim Weil)
Sparging and Chilling (Norm Hardy)
FYI (rdg)
In search of..... (jamesb)
In search of.....
Too Much Foam Revisited (Pete Soper)
Re: Premier Malt and mail order house (florianb)
Re: CO2 keg system (Ken Ellinwood)
Kegging System ("2645 RUTH, GUY R.")
Please Post!
Recycling Bottles (John DeCarlo )
re: Too much foam ("2645 RUTH, GUY R.")
``The Beer Hunter'' sighted again. (Chris Shenton)
Samichlaus Bier and wheat conversion (Marc Davidson)
Rice varieties (Enders)
Rice varieties (Enders)
I have to worry! I can't relax! (Brian Glendenning)
Rice varieties (Enders)
Oatmeal Stout (iwtio!korz)
CO2 keg system (a.e.mossberg)
'Strewth! It's FLAT! (Martin A. Lodahl)
Send submissions to homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Send requests to homebrew-request%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Archives available from netlib@mthvax.cs.miami.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 7:44:15 MST
From: Jon Rodin <jar@hpcndpc.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: reusable bottles
A fellow homebrewer recently mentioned to me that one has to be careful to use
*re-usable* bottles. But he wasn't sure how to tell if bottles were reusable
or not. He did not think that refundable bottles were necessarilly reusable.
I've got several cases worth of mostly long neck Rainier, Sam Adams and Bud
bottles. Is it safe to use these? I've got another case or so of miscellaneous
bottles, how can I tell whether I should use those?
I've also discovered that my capper works just fine on Red Hook and Sierra
twist off bottles. Is there any problem with reusing twist off bottles?
Jon Rodin
jar%hpcndpc@hplabs.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 9:54:14 EST
From: tony g <giannone@BBN.COM>
Subject: three gallon carboy (usage questions)
I just purchased a 3 gallon carboy. I figured it would give me a chance to
experiment (with different recipes) more often. Before I use it though, I
thought I'd ask a few questions.
When brewing a 5 gallon batch I usually boil 1 1/2 to 2 gallons of water
and then cool the wort with ~3 1/2 gallons of ice-water. This usually gets
the wort down to about 80 degrees. When I brew the 3 gallon batch how much
water should I use for the wort? Will 3/4 to 1 gallon be ok? If so, will
the remaining 2 gallons (or so) of ice-water be sufficient to cool the wort
to yeast-pitching temperature?
I've been using WY liquid yeast which is made for a 5 gallon batch. Is it
ok to use the entire package on a 3 gallon batch?
I know what your saying 'why doesn't he just relax...' but if you have any
input on this subject I would greatly appreciate it as I am anxious to get
started with the new carboy.
A. Homer Brewer
aka: tony g (giannone@bbn.com)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 10:14:30 MST
From: dzzr%beta@LANL.GOV (Douglas J Roberts)
Subject: Chill Haze
> From: Mike Charlton <umcharl3@ccu.umanitoba.ca>
>
> Hi all. I recently made a beer based on Dave Line's Theakston's Bitter
> recipe which seems to have chill haze. I found this rather strange since
> this recipe contains only pale malt, flaked maize, and molasses.
My holiday ale, which has 1 1/2 cups molasses in it also has a chill
haze. It was a mashed ale, and other similar recipes have always
clarified beautifully. The only other ingredient in this batch which
may be a culprit is the grated peel of four oranges. The batch tastes
great, but hasn't cleared yet after a month.
- --Doug
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 09:15 PST
From: JEEPSRUS <ROBERTN%FM1@sc.intel.com>
Subject: kegging and time
As the subject of kegging has been floating around the net lately,
I was wondering how long kegged beer will stay fresh?
Now say I were to get a c02 kegging system. If I tapped a keg and had
a few beers tonite, how long would I have to use up the rest of the beer?
If I don't drink any more for a week, how will it taste? How about a few
weeks? Will the c02 affect the flavor, or the aroma of the beer?
What about sediment? If my bottles have sediment in them, won't the
keg have some too? How do you keep this from being kicked up?
Thanx in advance, and have a real nice day!
RobertN.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 10:16:57 MST
From: dzzr%beta@LANL.GOV (Douglas J Roberts)
Subject: recycling sparge water
> From: kipps@etoile.ICS.UCI.EDU
>
> I'm going to be mashing again in a few weeks and I have a question. I've
> noticed several references in the recent past to "recycling sparge water
> until it runs clear." Now my experience in the past has been that the
> sparge water comes out cloudy and after recycling it's still cloudy.
> I've always assumed this was OK, thinking cloudy water in--cloudy water
> out. Will it really get clear if I recycle enough? or is my idea of
> clear a little cloudy?
I don't recycle sparge water. My experience has been that the hot
break removes all protiens quite nicely. My mashed beers all clarify
beautifully with just a straight sparge.
- --Doug
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 10:27:33 MST
From: dzzr%beta@LANL.GOV (Douglas J Roberts)
Subject: A mashing question
Ok, you mashers, I have a question about mashing Klages two-row: which
technique is preferred, the infusion (one temperature) or the
temperature-controlled step-mash procedure? I've now made several
batches by mashing ~8# Klages using Papazian's temperature-controlled
mash procedure, with excellent results. The initial specific gravities
weren't as high (~1.045) as I would have expected, but the quality of
the resulting beers was wonderful.
Is Klages highly modified, or do different batches of Klages vary? I'm
interested in hearing from others' experiences.
- --Doug
------------------------------
Date: 27 Dec 89 07:13:28 PST (Wednesday)
From: Crawford.WBST129@Xerox.COM
Subject: Re: Wyeast Problems?
>It was a very serious bacterial infection which produced a strong
>sulphery oder, much like 2-tube epoxy glue. (Yuck!)
I recently had a similar problem with MeV Research German Lager yeast. The
starter had a VERY strong sulphery odor. I looked though various books on
brewing (including the Trouble Shooting edition of Zymurgy). Some strains
do naturally produce a lot of the sulphery odor (I forget the specifics of
what the odor is) but it is stripped out with the CO2 during the ferment.
I went ahead and pitched the starter and the beer turned out OK, no sign of
a bacterial infection.
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Dec 89 14:05:18 EST
From: Joe <UKNALIS@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: blackberry/honey beer
I recently cooked up a batch of beer that contained 3lb of frozen black
berries and 1 lb of light honey. A can of light syrup and 2 oz of
williamette hops for good measure. I was borrowing technique from a recipie
in CJOH near Cherries in the snow (I can't remember the exact title). Well
everything is going ok, but the stuff is bubbling so slowly... It's been in
the secondary fermenter for a week now and is no slower/faster than when it
first went in. CJOH says 10-14 days in the secondary and to bottle when
the stuff shows signs of "clarity"(??). How do you see into a plastic bucket?
Anyway, anyone got any hints on how to deal with this bubbling baby of the
new year??
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 89 14:31:02 PST
From: polstra!jdp@hplabs.HP.COM (John Polstra)
Subject: Re: Stinky Wyeast Bavarian Lager Yeast
In HBD #334, Steve Conklin <uunet!ingr!b11!conk!steve> replied to my
earlier posting about a yeast starter infection that I experienced using
Wyeast #2206:
> My experience using this yeast at warmer temperatures is that it always
> stinks while fermenting, but that the beer does not retain any of the
> sulfer aroma. This is pretty typical for a number of strains of lager
> yeast, and the mechanisms are documented in brewing literature . . .
Steve, thanks for the reply. This was definitely an infection, though.
I had used #2206 several times before, and the oder this time was
entirely different. It was *bad*. I didn't even want the stuff in my
house!
- John Polstra jdp@polstra.UUCP
Polstra & Co., Inc. ...{uunet,sun}!practic!polstra!jdp
Seattle, WA (206) 932-6482
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 90 13:24:53 EST
From: hpda!uunet!f419.n109.z1.fidonet.org!Tim.Weil (Tim Weil)
Subject: Thomas Hardy Ale (A Recipe?)
BREWNET BBS is searching for recipe variations on
THOMAS HARDY's ALE. We don't know if this brew can
be approximated with HomeBrew technique, but we'd
like to give it a try.
Our preference would be for an all-grain, step-infusion
mash type of recipe but we welcome any and all references.
'Hoppy New Beer' (hic), 'Happy New Year'
BREWNET BBS can be reached via this conference or,
DIRECT - 301 891-SUDS
FIDONET - 1:109/419
USENET - Tim.Weil@f419.n109.z1.FIDONET.ORG
- --
Tim Weil at The Black Cat's Shack (Fidonet 1:109/401)
Internet: Tim.Weil@f419.n109.z1.fidonet.org
UUCP: ...!uunet!hadron!blkcat!419!Tim.Weil
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 89 15:00:40 PST
From: polstra!norm@hplabs.HP.COM (Norm Hardy)
Subject: Sparging and Chilling
Jim Kipps asks about a continual cloudy sparge.
I assume you have a standard sparging system with a small false bottom below
the screen (or nylon sparge bag or drilled bucket). You may find that you have
to recirculate up to 4 gallons of sparge. Check the speed of the sparge: the
best speed seems to be at least 8-12 minutes per gallon. It may seem slow, but
the yields are higher. You might drain a little wort at each gallon re-
circulated to check the clarity in a wine or brandy curved glass.
Todd Enders asks about a chilling system.
The counter-flow chillers have the highest efficiency I'm sure, until you
have to clean them. With great success I use an immersion chiller of copper
that my dad fabricated from 3/8 inch tubing. About 30 feet did the trick.
A couple of clamps tie the hoses on: one to the faucet with garden hose
coupling, the other to drain into the sick (or when drought time hits into a
bucket to then put into the wash machine for the next load). NOT sick, sink!
I'll get this editor down sometime. The immersion cooler works great and is
easy to clean and sanitize.
Norm in Seattle
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jan 90 11:00:16 MST
From: rdg@hpfcmi
Subject: FYI
Full-Name: Rob Gardner
There were no digests over the New Year's weekend, and none was mailed
out on Tuesday the 2nd or Wednesday the 3rd.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Tue Jan 2 10:21:00 1990
From: microsoft!jamesb@uunet.uu.net
Subject: In search of.....
>From jamesb Tue Jan 2 07:23:58 1990
To: uunet!homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
Subject: In search of.....
Date: Tue Jan 2 07:23:58 1990
I have just aquired an extra refridgerator, for free even.
Now I need some spiffy Lager recipes, I am not into the mash stage
as of yet so please take trhis into account.
Something along the lines of a St. Paulie Girl or even a Becks
would be just ducky.
Thanx
Jim Broglio
Microsoft
PS - Mr. Polstra
Could you give me a call, I have misplaced the add
ress and such for the club meeting
487-5165 or 355-8289
Thanx again
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Jan 90 15:27:43 EST
From: Pete Soper <soper@maxzilla.encore.com>
Subject: Too Much Foam Revisited
In HBD #330 hplabs!rutgers!maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca!rob (Rob McDonald) says:
> Having nothing else on hand I decided to give it a
> try. I transfered it from the carboy to a keg and put it under
> pressure to carbonate about five days ago @ 35 psi. The last
> batch was done in a similar manner. When I tapped off a glass of
> the last batch, I had to tap very slowly to avoid getting a glass
> of foam. This batch seems to be impossible to tap. All I get is
> foam. Can anybody suggest where I might have gone wrong? Any
> suggestions would be appreciated.
In HBD #331 dzzr%beta@LANL.GOV (Douglas J Roberts) replies:
>I do believe you ran the pressure up about 3.5 times too high. All you
>really want to have on a Cornelius-type keg is ~10 psi. Go much
>higher, and it'll be foam city every time.
By coincidence I recently had a batch of beer that was "foam city"
down to the last glass. I think there is more to Rob's situation if we
can assume that he wasn't really trying to dispense at 35psi. In any
case here is my sad tale with the hope that somebody can help.
My problem batch had also been carbonated with top pressure. I was
in a big hurry, so don't tell CAMRA on me, OK? I used 40psi for about
60 hours at 22 F ambient, then raised the ambient to 48 degrees over 24
hours time. The beer did not freeze, although I established that its
freezing point was just 3 degrees below the 22 degree temperature
I was using. On Christmas day we had a good lager with proper carbonation,
with one caveat.
After I determined the beer was carbonated I reset the regulator to
4psi, bled the top pressure down to the same and then let everything sit
for half a day before dispensing. Foam city. Buckets of foam. Foam like
the Three Stooges never created in their worst washing machine disaster.
The only way to deal with it was to fill a large pitcher and then pour
mostly-beer from the pitcher to glasses after the foam had subsided.
This continued with no improvement until the keg was empty nearly empty.
The last two glasses came out normally! I did experiment with pressures
down to 1psi but this just made the foam come out very slowly. The keg
involved had been used before with no problems. The liquid line was also
known to be secure and the tap (expensive metal kind) had been cleaned prior
to this episode.
Sitting next to the lager keg, at the same 48 degree temperature,
were two other kegs (both ales, both carbonated via priming sugar).
Dispensing pressure was 4psi in all cases. The ales dispensed perfectly,
slow but steady with just the right amount of foam to give each glass a
proper head. Each time the liquid line was switched back to the lager,
foam city.
This lager was made from 2 row klages lager malt, CFJ90 hops,
Wyeast #2308 and water. Aside from some irish moss and polyclar nothing
else touched the wort and no priming sugar or dry hopping was used.
Everything smelled and tasted very clean all along the way and at age 11
days the beer was crystal clear and remained clear until it was gone.
I'm new to kegging too and hope one of you can shed light on this
foaming problem. It got a lot of laughs on Christmas day but the joke
soon grew tiresome.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Soper +1 919 481 3730
internet: soper@encore.com uucp: {bu-cs,decvax,gould}!encore!soper
Encore Computer Corp, 901 Kildaire Farm Rd, bldg D, Cary, NC 27511 USA
------------------------------
Date: 02 Jan 90 13:08:06 PST (Tue)
From: florianb@tekred.cna.tek.com
Subject: Re: Premier Malt and mail order house
Some comments have appeared lately about Premier Malt Extract. I can
offer a word of support for it. I have made a "pretty good" summer
ale by using 3# 2-row, 1 can Premier, and 2 Oz Cascade leaf. I use
Papazain's partial mash method. The brew comes out light, low body,
but with the addition of 1/2 # of wheat malt, it pours up with a
bodacious head. I've even had good luck using Red Star Ale yeast
with this recipe. Can't knock it for a hot afternoon!
There was also a call for mail order houses. I use Steinbart's. Their
address is:
F. H. Steinbart Co.
602 SE Salmon
Portland, OR 97214
503-232-8793
Florian.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Dec 89 17:06:12 PST
From: aimla!serpentine!ken@suntzu.West.Sun.COM (Ken Ellinwood)
Subject: Re: CO2 keg system
> I've been interested in implementing a CO2 keg system, rather than
> going through the tediusness of bottling. I'm soliciting advice from
> ANYBODY out there who has experience with these things.
My brewing partners and I have been kegging in 5 gal Cornelious soda
kegs for about six months now. Our early efforts were plagued by
mistakes and faulty equipment, so it gives me great pleasure to help
other brewers from falling into the same traps.
Our setup consists of the kegs, a small "5 pound" CO2 tank, a regulator, and
manifold that splits the regulated gas into four hoses each of which has
a quick disconnect for attatching the gas to the kegs. Four 8 foot, 3/16
inner diameter hoses with quick disconnects at one end and standard
dispensing valves at the other end. Four kegs, the tank, regulator,
manifold and taps all fit into a large refrigerator dedicated to hosting
this equiptment and our beer. The disconnects that attatch to the kegs
come in two types, so like us, you must make sure that anytime you
purchase kegs or disconnects the keg valves and disconnects are the same
type as those you already own.
We purchased some of this equiptment used and some new. Beware that
used equiptment can be hard to find, but if you can find it used you
will save lots of money. The tank and regulator we bought used for a
grand total of $35. The regulator had to be overhauled ($20) and the
tank inspected and tested (a procedure that all pressurised tanks must
to through every 5 years - $12). A new tank and regulator set would
probably come to about $180. Some of the kegs we got used for about
$15 each. The ones that we bought new came for $65 each at a beverage
supply house. I can't rember exactly how much the manifold with hoses
and connectors cost (we purchased these new). I'd be surprised if it
was much more than about $50. Each "tap" (quick disconnect, 8 foot
hose, and dispensing valve) came to about $12 each new). The
refrigerator was a gift, and therefore cost us nothing. All of this
equipment was obtained from three different vendors - one homebrew
shop, one beverage dispensing equipment company, and one draught
specialist company ( a company that specializes in equipment for
dispensing beer - most of thier customers are bars and restaurants).
When all the dust had settled, the bill was probably between $350 and
$400.
Be sure to purchase new o-rings for any used kegs that you buy. Word
on the street has it that old o-rings can sour the tast of your beer.
We took this advice right from the start and have never had any beers
that came out tasting like old Pepsi syrup.
Make sure that the system does not leak CO2. Even the smallest leak
can cause your tank to go dry in a matter of days. Submerging the hoses
and connections under water while the pressure is on will reveal any leaks
in the form of streams of bubbles rising to the surface.
When the beer is ready to be kegged, sanitize the keg and rack the beer
into it. If you are naturally carbonating the beer, add 1/4 the priming
ingredient (corn sugar or malt) than what you would add when bottling.
To much primer will cause the beer to be overcarbonated. Moisten the
seal of the keg, close it and add a small amount of pressure from the
tank to ensure that the seal is closed. Some kegs will not hold pressure
if the pressure is built up slowly (i.e. from natural carbonation) but
will if you put a little in (5 psi) from the tank when you first close
the seal.
The beer may be artificially carbonated by holding the keg under
pressure of 12 to 15 psi while the keg is kept cold (40F) for a week or
two. Do not be tempted to increase the pressure to carbonate faster -
this will result in overcarbonated beer and you will dispense pure
foam. The 8 foot 3/16" hose that we dispense through restricts the
pressure enough that the keg pressure does not need to be dropped
before dispensing the beer. In other words we carbonate and dispense
at the same pressure. Before we had the 8 foot hoses, we were forced
to cut off the gas to the keg, release gas to reduce the pressure in
the keg, pour a glass or two of beer, and the re-pressurize the keg to
maintain carbonation. This was wasting an incredible amount of CO2.
It is important that the beer does not flow to quickly from the tap or
the beer foams to much and that the pressure inside the keg is
maintained at around 12 to 15 psi in order to have carbonated beer.
All in all, with the cost of the equipment and the problems that we
encountered early on, kegging is the only way to go and I highly
recommend it.
Ken Ellinwood
American Interactive Media
11050 Santa Monica Blvd, Suite 300
Los Angeles, CA 90025
(213) 444-6554
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jan 90 06:19:00 MDT
From: "2645 RUTH, GUY R." <grruth@sandia.gov>
Subject: Kegging System
From: SAV55::WINS%"<DTG@UMD2.UMD.EDU>" 26-DEC-1989 18:02
To: GRRUTH
Subj: Please Post!
Return-Path: <DTG@UMD2.UMD.EDU>
Received: from UMD2.UMD.EDU by sandia.gov with SMTP ;
Tue, 26 Dec 89 17:01:44 MDT
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 89 18:20:21 EST
From: shoeless joe <DTG@UMD2.UMD.EDU>
To: grruth <grruth@sandia.gov>
Subject: Please Post!
Message-ID: <M1989$087649.208139.DTG@UMD2.UMD.EDU>
I've been interested in implementing a CO2 keg system, rather than
going through the tediusness of bottling. I'm soliciting advice from
ANYBODY out there who has experience with these things. I'm particular-
ly interested in the following:
1. How difficult is it for a complete incompetant (like myself--
who isn't worrying, by the way...) to implement one of these
systems?
2. How EXPENSIVE is it to implement one of these systems, and what
should I expect to pay for each component of the system?
3. Are there any tricks or suggestions that I should be aware of?
For example, is it practical--financially or in terms of
keeping my beer drinkable--to buy extra containers (cannisters?)
and then switch the tap to whatever beer I feel like drinking
that evening?
Also, while I have everybody's attention--and I know that this has been
discussed previously in the Digest--I'm interested in growing hops in my back
yard. Any ideas as to where to get hop plants? When should they be
harvested? How does one go about processing the flowers such that they
can be added to the wort? Do all varieties grow equally well in all
climates? And, again, how much to they cost? Finally, how many plants
would be sufficient to supply the flowers needed for somebody like
myself, who brews 15-20 batches a year?
Thanks in advance for everybody who responds!
------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, 3 Jan 1990 08:27:11 EST
From: m14051@mwvm.mitre.org (John DeCarlo )
Subject: Recycling Bottles
Has anyone ever gotten a bar/restaurant to save the ceramic-top bottles
(a la Grolsch) for you or a club? I have checked a few around DC and
found that they throw them all away. The managers are reluctant to
change their operations, thinking it will take up employee time or
valuable space to save bottles for recycling, although the idea of
recycling is appealing.
So, I am looking for anyone who might have some experience in this
area. Thanks.
ARPANET: M14051@mwvm.mitre.org (or M14051%mwvm@mitre.arpa)
Usenet: @...@!uunet!hadron!blkcat!109!131!John_Decarlo
Fidonet: 1:109/131
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jan 90 08:44:00 MDT
From: "2645 RUTH, GUY R." <grruth@sandia.gov>
Subject: re: Too much foam
Rob McDonald writes:
> I transfered it from the carboy to a keg and put it under pressure to
> carbonate about five days ago @ 35 psi. The last batch was done in a
> similar manner. When I tapped off a glass of the last batch, I had to tap
> very slowly to avoid getting a glass of foam. This batch seems to be
> impossible to tap. All I get is foam. Can anybody suggest where I might
> have gone wrong?
A member of the club I belong to stumbled across a neat trick to quickly car-
bonate a Cornelius keg (i.e. in about 10 minutes). Chill your keg of beer
to just above freezing. Apply ~10# of gas to the LIQUID side of the keg.
Gently rock the keg and as soon as you cannot hear any more bubbles the keg
is carbonated. Then drop the pressure down to 5#.
This process works great if you do not care about cloudy beer and have to
quickly prepare a keg for friends that drop by unexpectedly.
I perform this procedure as a general rule. This is also a good way to
"scrub" your beer of those nasty sulfury yeast esters that may appear
depending on the type of yeast used.
>> Guy <<
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 10:09:50 est
From: Chris Shenton <chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: ``The Beer Hunter'' sighted again.
I got another 3 episodes of Michael Jackson's ``The Beer Hunter'', bringing
the total so far up to six. Still trying to track down exactly when it will
air (er, `cable', really). Will let you know when I find out anything else.
_______________________________________________________________________________
``A kinder, gentler fermentation'' -- George Busch
Internet: chris@asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov (128.183.10.155) NASA/GSFC: Code 735
UUCP: ...!uunet!asylum.gsfc.nasa.gov!chris Greenbelt, MD 20771
SPAN: PITCH::CHRIS (DECNET) 301-286-6093
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 9:39:10 MST
From: Marc Davidson <hplsdrf!davidson@hp-lsd.cos.hp.com>
Subject: Samichlaus Bier and wheat conversion
Full-Name: Marc Davidson
I received as a Christmas present this year, a six pack of a
really interesting beer that I know nothing about - it's called
Samichlaus Bier. Apparently it's brewed once a year on December
6th and then aged for 11 months before being bottled. It's
really interesting stuff but extremely potent - it's also very
clear. The bottles say nothing more than the name, when it was
bottled, and a warning to pregnant people. The bottle cap does
say "Hurlimann FLORIDA swiss lager" but it sure tastes more like
a barley wine to me. Anyone know anything about this stuff?
The bottle actually says one more thing, "Guiness Book of Records".
Not having a book of records, I have no idea why it's in there.
Also, I have a question on converting wheat. I tried it once with
the Edme DMS without 100% success. I did a step mash with a conversion
at 155F for 2 hours before giving up - the iodine continued to indicate
starch. Now I did put the extract in from the start and maybe that
was the mistake. Anyway I want to go all grain next time but I
haven't seen any good tables or rules of thumb as to how much
barley it takes to convert a given amount of wheat. I was planning
on using a fair amount of 6-row to do the conversion but I was up
in Denver this past weekend talking with Jerry at the Wynkoop brewery
and he explained that their wheat beer is 43% wheat and they use only a
2-row and have no problem achieving complete conversion. Has anyone
done much testing with this or seen any good tables?
Anybody ever try Koji? Where do you get it?
Marc Davidson
hp-lsd.cos.hp.com!davidson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 14:16:41 -0600
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Rice varieties
Although I haven't got around to all grain brewing (yet!!!), I'm wonder-
ing if anyone has tried using sweet rice (glutenous) or some of the so-called
aromatic rices as adjuncts. It seems to me that there might be some
potential for experimentation here. It's just a thought...
Todd Enders ARPA: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center UUCP: ...!ihnp4!plains!enders
Minot State University BITNET: enders@ndsuvax.BITNET
Minot, ND 58701
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 14:12:43 -0600
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Rice varieties
Although I haven't got around to all grain brewing (yet!!!), I'm wonder-
ing if anyone has tried using sweet rice (glutenous) or some of the so-called
aromatic rices as adjuncts. It seems to me that there might be some
potential for experimentation here. It's just a thought...
Todd Enders ARPA: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center UUCP: ...!ihnp4!plains!enders
Minot State University BITNET: enders@ndsuvax.BITNET
Minot, ND 58701
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 15:20:32 EST
From: Brian Glendenning <brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca>
Subject: I have to worry! I can't relax!
Yes that's right, I can't relax and have a homebrew because something
has happened to my very first batch!
A friend and I made a pure extract batch following the instructions
given by the local brewstore. However, after 2.5 days (when I left
home this morning) no strong fermentation has started. There iss a
light layer of foam on top.
I think the relevant details are:
1. dry yeast
2. started in 1.5 cups of sterile wort
3. pitched into well aerated wort @78 F an hour or two later.
I think the yeast was alive going in (a little foam on top). My only
theory is that the wort had too much oxygen in it (the instructions
recommended pouring wort into the fermentor from about 2 feet above
the bucket which would be about 4-5 feet off the floor which seems
excessive?) so the critters are still reprodicing and not fermenting.
So, my questions are:
1. is this batch dead? time to chuck it and try again?
2. how long should it take fermentation to start?
3. how should I initially get oxygen into the wort?
Thanks!
- --
Brian Glendenning - Radio astronomy, University of Toronto
brian@radio.astro.utoronto.ca uunet!utai!radio!brian glendenn@utorphys.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 15:28:33 -0600
From: Enders <enders@plains.NoDak.edu>
Subject: Rice varieties
(my appologies if this shows up more than once, but I've been having
trouble hitting the list )
Although I haven't got around to all grain brewing (yet!!!), I'm wonder-
ing if anyone has tried using sweet rice (glutenous) or some of the so-called
aromatic rices as adjuncts. It seems to me that there might be some
potential for experimentation here. It's just a thought...
Todd Enders ARPA: enders@plains.nodak.edu
Computer Center UUCP: ...!ihnp4!plains!enders
Minot State University BITNET: enders@ndsuvax.BITNET
Minot, ND 58701
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 15:05:51 mst
From: att!iwtio!korz@hp-lsd.cos.hp.com
Subject: Oatmeal Stout
This recipe:
Broglio's Quaker Stout
6# Dry Amber Malt
1# Crystal Malt
.5# Roasted Barley
1# Quaker Oats
1oz. Eroica Hops (Boiling)
1oz. Kent Goldings (Finishing)
2pks. EDME dry yeast
as mentioned in an earlier digest, contains no enzymes to convert the
starches in the oats into sugar. Extracts (except for Edme DMS, to the
best of my knowledge) have no enzymes and Crystal Malt and Roasted Barley
have (due to the temperatures involved in production) had their enzymes
denatured. The question remains, though, is there a benefit from having
some starch in the brew - i.e. do the oats add to the flavor of the final
product? In general, how soluble are the grain starches that we come
across in our brewing? What are the effects of excess dissolved starches
in our beers?
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 18:49:25 EST
From: aem@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (a.e.mossberg)
Subject: CO2 keg system
In HOMEBREW Digest #334, shoeless joe asks about CO2 keg systems:
>I've been interested in implementing a CO2 keg system, rather than
>going through the tediusness of bottling. I'm soliciting advice from
>ANYBODY out there who has experience with these things. I'm particular-
>ly interested in the following:
> 1. How difficult is it for a complete incompetant (like myself--
> who isn't worrying, by the way...) to implement one of these
> systems?
Very very easy.
> 2. How EXPENSIVE is it to implement one of these systems, and what
> should I expect to pay for each component of the system?
Kegs are basically free, if you go with the soda keg system. Figure
about $70 or so for the CO2 tank and regulator. I recommend a double
regulator (pressure gauges for both CO2 tank and keg). Maybe another
$30 or so for hoses, faucet, connectors. Your prices may vary, but
figure around $100 all told to get set up.
> 3. Are there any tricks or suggestions that I should be aware of?
> For example, is it practical--financially or in terms of
> keeping my beer drinkable--to buy extra containers (cannisters?)
> and then switch the tap to whatever beer I feel like drinking
> that evening?
If you're going to have them all in a refrigerator, sure. Don't count on
a keg getting cold in less than 6 hours. By all means, though, have
extra kegs on hand.
BTW, I want to stress using soda kegs, and not attempting to use beer
kegs. And use Coca Cola type kegs, as parts are much easier to come by.
If you can get Pepsi kegs easier, go ahead, but don't mix. You may want
to consider converting the soda kegs specifically for homebrew. This
consists of removing the tube to the bottom and replacing it with a
float system. The advantage is that beer is always taken from just below
the top, resulting in less potential sediment. If you don't, you'll have
to dump (or grin and chew) the first couple mugs worth.
aem
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 90 15:38:24 PST
From: Martin A. Lodahl <pbmoss!mal@hplabs.HP.COM>
Subject: 'Strewth! It's FLAT!
Yes, I'm afraid it's true: I have .. <snif!> .. flat stout! I've
sampled three bottles so far, and all are utterly without
carbonation. The recipe was fairly straightforward, involving pale
lager malt, roast unmalted barley, barley flakes, and Edme yeast;
the OG was as high as one would expect, fermentation was extremely
active, and there were even still a few bubbles on the surface when
I bottled, but no other sign of activity. I use single-stage
fermentation, and this batch spent 3 weeks in the primary followed
by a week of clarification (assisted by a teaspoon of gelatin) in
another carboy. Same process I always use. Flavor is outstanding:
a chewy roastiness, with an indefinable something reminiscent of
Thomas Hardy ale; if it had some carbonation I'd be thrilled with
it. I do have some guesses:
1. Terminal yeast dormancy. Just before racking to the secondary,
it got truly cold in the kitchen and cellar, as it has remained to
the present. Could it be they just didn't wake up when presented
with more goodies?
2. High alcohol content. I don't know how much Edme yeast can
stand, but this stuff is STRONG. Perhaps I should have wort-primed
from my fermenting batch of barleywine, which was pitched with
champagne yeast.
3. Stratified prime. To bottle, I rack from the secondary to my
lauter tun, then mix in the priming syrup, stir, and rack to
bottles. I have a clear recollection of adding the priming syrup
(1/2 cup corn sugar dissolved in 1 1/2 cups boiled water) to the tun
about halfway into the racking. I stirred at the time, but I don't
remember stirring again after racking was complete. If this
hypothesis is correct, some bottles should be flat, some should be
CHARGED, and some should be in-between. So far, I've only seen flat
ones.
I tend to think it's not a matter of bottles or caps, since one of
the bottles sampled was a heavy-duty screw-cap bottle, and the
others were standard crown-cap bottles. Do any of these theories
sound plausible? Does anyone have any tips to offer?
By the way, it tastes quite good when mixed with other beers. It's
been tried so far mixed with Corona (which adds fizz at the cost of
a certain refinement) and with my own porter (a winning
combination), so there's no question of dumping it. I'd just like
to avoid making the same mistake twice.
- Martin
= Martin A. Lodahl Pac*Bell Minicomputer Operations Support Staff =
= pacbell!pbmoss!mal -or- mal@pbmoss.Pacbell.COM 916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids, runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! 8-) =
[NB: I first heard the above couplet (by Pete Seeger, to the tune of
"Gimme That Ol' Time Religion") at the New Year's party where I first
tasted good homebrew. I always think of that, this time of year]
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #335, 01/04/90
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