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Lambic Digest V1 #048
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lambic-digest Thursday, 12 March 1998 Volume 01 : Number 048
vieux!
Tasting Wastewater
Wow
Re: Teaching How To Judge Lambics
Yeast
odd esters
Last Call for the 1998 World Cup of Beer!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gary Rich" <garyrich at smartlink.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 13:11:09 +0000
Subject: vieux!
I've been patient. I've now got a 3+ year old
lambic sitting behind me here in the computer
room. 3 years ago last Oct. it was made from
a general 'wheat beer' wort. malted wheat, amer.
barley malt and a bit of carapils for dextrins.
It was fermented with 1056 for a week or two and
then innoculated with 2 bretts and a pedio.
About 1-2 times a year I crack open my case of '94 cuvee
rene (still 4 left!) and when the bottle is empty I flame it and dump
the dregs in the carboy. Other than that is has sat calmly
in the primary on its own lees the entire time. The bubbler
once ran dry for a couple of weeks (hey, 3+ years is a long time)
so it hasn't been particularly O2 deprived...
My question is, now what? I have no clue what it tastes or
even smells like. Ok, I just cracked it for the first time
in 1998 and it smells... lambicy. sharp, somewhat sour, not
"goat like" but a sharp scent that I've noted before with
lambics. I don't want to disturb it enough to steal a taste.
under the dust on the carboy I can see that it has a thin
pellicle that I don't want to break.
I'd like to make a gueuze out of it. I could put it in a keg
and force carbonate it, but no. I don't really want to make
a "priming ale" at this point and let it age another year and then
mix them as would be really 'traditional' (my patience is running
out...). Can I kreuzen it with a quart or so of active starter and
bottle? should I kreuzen with fresh brett as well as fresh
saccaromyces?
I'm open to suggestion.
- ----------------------------------
Gary Rich
http://www.smartlink.net/~garyrich
garyrich at smartlink.net
------------------------------
From: Paul Niebergall <pnieb at burnsmcd.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:21:48 -0600
Subject: Tasting Wastewater
Hi All,
I have a question concerning when to taste (or not to taste) your
fermenting pLambic.
I have always believed that the best way to evaluate things related to
brewing is to jump right in there and take a taste at every opportunity. I
have somewhat of a cast iron stomach so this hasn't been a bad policy
until I brewed my first batch of pLambic last November. I pried the lid off
of the plastic bucket fermenter last week to check on the progress. It
had a thick, ropey, white scum on top that looked like a text book example
of pellicle. The smell was good (although a little sour or maybe a little
rotten, but definitely not putrid). I siphoned off a few ounces to have a
closer look. It looked great. I smelled it again and thought "what the
heck.......", that's when I downed the sample in one quick gulp. Wow,
talk about sour, but good. I am very impressed with the taste and flavor
profile that has developed so far. (It tasted much better (more mature??)
than the sample I tasted a few months ago). Anyway, that's not what
this story is about......
The next morning something very bad happened and it continued
throughout most of the day. The best way I can put it is, shall we say,
some very interesting effects on the old GI system (Belgian revenge?)
;-o
Anyway, should I not be tasting my pLambic at a stage when the micro
flora are in full blume? Maybe I should irradiate it first. I realize that
when the brewing is over, most of the bacteria will be dead. I had plenty
of time to contemplate the situation (on more than a few occasions) and
have drawn a parallel to wastewater treatment. Your surely wouldn't
want to drink a sample of active wastewater that came from an
anaerobic digester, but you can drink the same water (with no ill effects)
when treatment is finished. Does this make any sense here?
I really don't think the my pLambic has gone bad (how would one tell
anyway?). The smell, color, and taste were all fine (actually- pretty darn
good). Any thoughts on this?
Paul Niebergall
------------------------------
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at stanford.edu>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 00:29:46 -0800
Subject: Wow
Boy, ask a simple question....
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
------------------------------
From: "Andrew R. Ruggles" <arruggles at sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 18:09:10 -0800
Subject: Re: Teaching How To Judge Lambics
> From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:53:32 -0500
> Subject: Teaching How To Judge Lambics
>
> As part of a class in judging beer, I have volunteered to teach the class
> about lambics and oud bruins. Of course, I have my own opinions on what to
> emphasize on the history, style guidelines, etc. Not to mention what
> commercial beers to have them taste and judge.
>
> But, I would definitely appreciate any input or suggestions you have. I
> wager there are few on this mailing list with no opinions on this matter.
>
> For instance, I am seriously considering bringing a syrupy "lambic", such
> as DeTroch or the like. Just as contrast to a more traditional Boon,
> Cantillon, etc.
I avoid the "sweetened" varieties when I have led the BJCP class in the
Twin Cities the last two years. My philosophy is that we are
predominantly judging homemade plambics, which are very difficult to
sweeten (without filtering and/or pastuerization).
> Also, given the variation among bottles, how should I approach sampling a
> particular commercial example? If the Cantillon Gueuze isn't as "hard" as
> I lead them to expect, is that a good or a bad thing? Should I open some
> ahead of time to better describe a particular bottle?
Nothing wrong with kicking back a few lambics in the interest of your
palate!!
Explain why a Cantillon may not be hard, if it isn't hard. Aging is the
best way to mellow a Cantillon. I believe I've seen it written in the
digest and attributed to JP Van Roy that he seems to think his best
(read: painfully sour) lambics come from years with the hottest summers.
It ain't good or bad. It just is. That's the beauty of this product -
it's
invariably variable. Compare the Boon with the Mariage Parfait Boon with
Cantillon and a Hanssens and you'll be amazed at the spectrum.
Andrew
------------------------------
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:53:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Yeast
Thanks for typing all that in Jim... and on such short notice ;^).
"Hmmm... wheat malt, barley malt, Hallertauer... now what yeast
should I use? Gimmie a package of that Wyeast #4865 "Skin lesion, on
3-month-old girl" yeast. Yeah..."
Al.
------------------------------
From: Sean Richens <SRichens at apoferm.mb.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 16:51:31 -0600
Subject: odd esters
Regarding the pLambic with the tequila-like aroma, it's not too hard to
believe since the alcohol in tequila is produced from the agave by a
bacterium, not yeast. I'm afraid the library is a bit too far away for me to
go get the species name. Since some pLambic producers in N.America
like to allow fate to make its contribution with a little wild Pediococcus, I
suspect the presence of a close relative.
Would I drink it? Maybe, in small sips at first. I sure wouldn't want to get
drunk on it.
Sean Richens
srichens at apoferm.mb.ca
------------------------------
From: David Klein <dklein at wenet.net>
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:46:33 -0800
Subject: Last Call for the 1998 World Cup of Beer!
Heyall,
Just a quick note to remind you (and let you know if you didn't) that
the deadline for entering Beers in the World Cup of Beer is comming up
this Saturday.
Relevant here is the fact that we, as always, offer Lambic and Abbey
Ale categories which are judged by a top notch panel that includes your
favorate list moderator and mine, Mike Sharp and other
[much more --Mike] *highly experienced* Lambic and Trappest Judges.
The added bonus this year is that we are a qualifing event for the
MCAB, a new attempt at a national competition, and the winning Lambic
and Tripple go on to compete at a national level!
For more info, please email me (dklein at wenet.net) or the Competition
Organizer, Doug Ashcraft (Ashcraftmd at aol.com). Our web site is:
http://www.slip.net/~tcedit/worldcup.htm
Thanks,
David Klein
------------------------------
End of lambic-digest V1 #48
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