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Subject: Lambic: The Lambic Digest V1 #98
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Lambic: The Lambic Digest Thursday, June 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 098
Re: Lambic: The Lambic Digest V1 #97
RE: Lambic: The Lambic Digest V1 #97
Re: Shultheiss / Rodenbach / where am I
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 07:36:32 -0500
From: Nathan Kanous <nlkanous at pharmacy.wisc.edu>
Subject: Re: Lambic: The Lambic Digest V1 #97
Steve Parfitt questions my use of Kolsch Yeast in my Berliner Weisse
(academically questions it's use, he's not flaming me):
At 01:10 AM 06/20/2001 -0400, you wrote:
>glass was really Nasty with yeast. Second was pretty good. But Kolsch is no
>Hefe. Which is the point of this.. Why use 2565 for a Hefe?? Kolsch produces
>a clean, fairly ester free beer. It would seem a poor choice for a hefe.
I don't necessarily consider a berliner weisse to be the same as a hefe
weisse. I don't know how the esters and phenols from a traditional hefe
would meld with the acidity of a berliner weisse.
Berliner weisse is an assertively sour beer similar to Lambic /
gueuze. Again, Kindl only uses Lactobacillus which is homofermentative
(lactic acid only...in terms of acids) while the Lambic's have lactic anc
acetic, and probably some others.
Bottom line is, a berliner weisse is a pretty sour beer......I don't know
that the esters and phenols characteristic of a hefe are a part of the
profile of a berliner weisse, but I'm not so anal about style guidelines as
to make you dump yours out......I just wanted a relatively low ester beer
to see how the lactobacillus capsules worked.
nathan in madison, wi
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 08:54:36 -0400
From: "Parfitt, Steven" <Steven.Parfitt at sea.siemens.com>
Subject: RE: Lambic: The Lambic Digest V1 #97
Nathan,
Is there a way to measure sourness, other than subjectively?
pH would be a way of detecting acid if the pH were measured before and after
the sour took place. Is there a way to correlate pH to sourness in these
beers?
One issue for me is how sour are we talking about here? Is there a way to
use lemon juice with specified dilutions to make a "standard Sourness range"
for comparison? Would Lemmon juice be comparable to lactic acid for
sourness?
I saved the sour beer because I like it, and wanted to save whatever caused
it so that I can sour other beer with it. Best candidate for souring it will
be (1) Hefe Weissen [already happened], (2)adding it to my pLambic [whenever
I get around to making one], (3) maybe some American Wheat Beer [ one in
secondary now].
My plan is to drink most of what I have in the corny, then add whatever I
want to sour, with the exception of the pLambic, there I will agitate the
corny and remove a pint to add to the pLambic. This would be in addition to
the Lambic Blend, not by itself as it would be too one dimensional for a
pLambic.
Steven
>Steve Parfitt questions my use of Kolsch Yeast in my Berliner Weisse
>(academically questions it's use, he's not flaming me):
Snip....
>>Why use 2565 for a Hefe?? Kolsch produces
>>a clean, fairly ester free beer. It would seem a poor choice for a hefe.
>I don't necessarily consider a berliner weisse to be the same as a hefe
>weisse. I don't know how the esters and phenols from a traditional hefe
>would meld with the acidity of a berliner weisse.
>Berliner weisse is an assertively sour beer similar to Lambic /
>gueuze.
snip.....
>berliner weisse is a pretty sour beer......I don't know
>that the esters and phenols characteristic of a hefe are a part of the
>profile of a berliner weisse, but I'm not so anal about style guidelines as
>to make you dump yours out......I just wanted a relatively low ester beer
>to see how the lactobacillus capsules worked.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2001 06:49:41 -0700
From: Mike Sharp <mike_sharp at pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Shultheiss / Rodenbach / where am I
Spencer Thomas writes:
> I have no question that there is some brett in Schultheiss. The brett character is
> immediately evident in the nose and flavor. I am totally bummed that we can only
> get Kindl in this country, as it is flat and one-dimensional next to Schultheiss.
Hmmm. We're talking about aromas that could be described as horsey/mousey
and 'barnyard' here?
It wasn't until last week that I'd heard someone claim that a 'Berliner Weiss'
could have these characteristics. I was a little surprised since I'd only ever
had Kindl and I remember that being very clean (biologically :) and quite sour.
A few days back Steven Parfitt asks:
>Thee are several of us (myself included) who are new to lambic.
> I'm hoping to kick off my first batch this week (Rodenbach Gran Cru clone).
minor nit. This is an excellent beer but not a lambic.
Quite some time ago it was possible to get quarts of slurry from
the brewery. Thats definately the way to go for fermenting this.
There was a thesis published around '93 or '94? by a student at the
university in Leuven about the fermentation of Rodenbach's beers.
I'm pretty sure Jim Liddil's web site has this listed in the references
section.
...and about bottling 30+ gallons of old lambic...
>I'll be a fair amount that you aren't anywhere near me...
SF bay area. Who else is around here?
> Whats you recipe?
I honestly haven't a clue at this point in time.
I believe the wort was part of a multi-barrel batch made at a microbrewery
somewhere down towards Gilroy, CA. It was a group effort with everyone
taking X many gallons and going off to make some lambic. I honestly don't
remember much more than this. I do remember that I'd grown up about
25 starts of different (appropriate) bugs to go into this batch. Its been
sitting in both French and American oak since. An even older batch has
been sitting in sankey kegs -- I needed the barrels for the new batch...
I haven't been rushed to bottle anything because I'm still drinking my '93
framboise. I've been setting aside batches so I can blend. Its probably
time to start actually blending...
--Mike
------------------------------
End of Lambic: The Lambic Digest V1 #98
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