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Lambic Digest V1 #055
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lambic-digest Thursday, 9 April 1998 Volume 01 : Number 055
Re: hard winter wheat, lagering
Re: cold ale conditioning
Cardboardy Belgian Pale Ales / Cold vs. warm maturation
Witbier Yeast Sources
Trip Report
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Hodge" <jdhodge at worldnet.att.net>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 18:05:47 -0500
Subject: Re: hard winter wheat, lagering
For what it's worth, my experience matches Rick Garvin's. A substantial
protein rest is absolutely necessary with this much raw wheat, but boiling
isn't. I typically do 45 minutes to an hour in the 117 to 125 F range.
This is enough to keep your mash nice and fluid and it is almost magical to
watch your mash turn from a cream-of-wheat-from-hell to a manageable loose
mash. With this much wheat, I always add a generous handful of rice hulls
at mash out to help form the filter bed and get a good run-off.
In principal, a too of a long protein rest will result insufficient protein
being left to give your wit the characteristic opalescent haze it should
have. However, I always opt for a long protein rest and make up for the
protein loss by throwing a handful of wheat flour into the boil (this is a
Randy Mosher trick, by the way).
Jim
===================================
And what is good, Phaedrus,
And what is not good......
Need we have anyone to tell us these things?
===================================
------------------------------
From: Conn Copas <conn.copas at dsto.defence.gov.au>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 22:22:38 +0930 (CST)
Subject: Re: cold ale conditioning
Scott Bickham <srb at t4.lanl.gov> writes about cold ale conditioning:
>I think the main reason to stabilize the different compounds. Esterification
>will take place without the yeast being active, and there are also redox
>reactions which stabilize the various oxidizing and reducing agents,
>reduce diacetyl and acetaldehyde, etc.
>
>The best analogy is looking at what happens when lactic acid is added
>to a wit at bottling. This throws the acid/ester/alcohol balance out
>of whack and maturation takes much longer than when the lactic acid
>is produced during the fermentation.
So we are using the cold to slow some (yeast uncatalysed) reactions down in
favour of others which are less sensitive to temperature? That provokes
the question of which of these purely physical reactions like which
conditions.
and Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com> asks:
>> (c) whether
>>the maturation occurs soon after fermentation or, instead, closer to the time
>>of consumption
>I don't think I understand this... do you mean months of warm-conditioning
>followed by months of cold-conditioning VS. all cold-conditioning?
A common pro method is to conduct a cold secondary (or maybe tertiary, depending
how you define it), drop yeast out, bottle (either with or without yeast),
then maintain the bottles at something like room temperature until these go
off to the distributors. An alternative, home-brewed, methodology is to
conduct both the secondary and the bottle conditioning at room temperature,
mature the brew until it has rounded off (in the order of 3 months), then opt
for a cold, chill-haze reduction step.
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 09:35:34 -0700
Subject: Cardboardy Belgian Pale Ales / Cold vs. warm maturation
Hi all,
First, a question:
Why is it that all of the Belgian (style) Pale Ales I have tried (to
date) taste very papery?
I have had Celis pale ale, Staffe Hendrik, and most recently De
Koninck. They all tasted like paper. I even insulted the brewer of
Straffe Hendrik by asking him about this when I met him at a bar in
NYC. Call me Mr. Faux Pas.
Just last night I got a bottle of De Konick pale ale (and the Grand
Cru) right from the distributor (I'm teaching a class at the Brooklyn
Brewery for their sales force; the De Koninck beers are not yet
licensed for sale in the US). While the Grand Cru was quite
wonderful, the pale ale was quite papery. Another educated palate
confirmed this, so it isn't just me.
I'm starting to think it's supposed to taste this way! Some of you
have been to Belgium (or are their now). Are these beers papery
there, too, or is it that they get air into the beer post-fermentation
(which greatly reduced the shelf life)? But what of the Celis? I
would think that should be fresh, although it seems to be tough to
find...maybe the bottles I have found have been old?
--------------------------------
Conn Copas asked:
> Nothing definitive to add, just some musings. I am yet to hear a >
comprehensive
> account of what cold conditioning does for ales, and would
appreciate any > thoughts. The main uncertainty of course is that the
yeast cannot be
> expected to
> be working at cold temperatures, so what is going on?
Wow! Finally something I can babble about on this digest!
Cold conditioning of any beer (lager or ale) will serve the purpose of
colloidal stabilization (chill-proofing). That is desirable in many
styles. Chill haze will become permanent with time, and it isn't very
pretty.
Beyond that, there is debate. The following is taken from a 2
month-old Homebrew Digest post of mine. Sorry about the repetition,
but it seems relevant. Keep in mind, that while it does talk about
lager brewing, the maturation of ales can be (and often is) handled in
the same way. It is the primary fermentation that will be warmer:
-----------------------------
In some ways warmer maturation makes a lot of sense: we are expecting
chemical and biological reactions to occur that "smooth and mellow"
the beer. These things all occur more rapidly at higher temperature.
Cold maturation will give the beer colloidal stability (chill
proofing), but that doesn't require months.
There are several different schemes for lager fermentation that can be
used. Some of them are discussed below:
1. Cold fermentation/cold maturation: pitching at ~6C with
fermentation at ~8-9C (47-48F), maturation at near freezing.
Advantages: slower yeast growth resulting in fewer fermentation
by-products. Improved foam stability is claimed.
Disadvantages: It takes a really long time! Both fermentation and
maturation take a long while. Precise temperature control is
desirable so that the temperature can be reduced from 8-9C to near 0C
very gradually.
This is a time-proven method, though, and I have made wonderful beers
this way. Maturation can be sped up by adding kraeusen beer to the
young, fermented beer. The dose of active yeast will help clean up
some of the less desirable metabolites.
Another variant of this program calls for keeping the beer at 8-9C for
about two weeks. After the first week or so, the beer is moved off
the primary yeast and about 10% Kraeusen beer is added. Once diacetyl
is no longer detected (see yesterday's post) the beer is quickly
chilled to near freezing and lagered for 1 week.
As you can see, this speeds things up a bit without the disadvantages
of warmer fermentation (see below).
2. Warm fermentation/cold maturation: pitching at ~8C (47F) and the
temp of the ferment is then allowed to rise to 12-14C (54-57F).
The beer is only cooled to near freezing once the diacetyl test is
negative. This has the advantage of taking only 17-20 days. Final
attenuation is quickly reached and diacetyl reduction is fast and
reliable.
Of course, at warmer temperatures there is more rapid yeast growth.
This can lead to higher levels of fermentation by-products, such as
esters and diacetyl. Still, it is a popular commercial option.
3. Warm fermentation under pressure/ cold maturation:
In this scheme, fermentation takes place at relatively high
temperatures (up to 20C (68F)). Normally, the high rate of yeast
growth at this temperature would produce a plethora of unwanted
fermentation by-products. This is controlled by applying pressure on
the fermenting beer (1.7 atm max) after the initial growth phase (at
~50% attenuation). The high pressure subdues yeast growth, but
fermentation still occurs at a more rapid rate than at cold
temperatures.
After about 9 or 10 days the temperature is reduced quickly to near
freezing (as long as the diacetyl is gone) where it is kept for a
week.
4. Cold fermentation/warm maturation: This process takes advantage
of the fact that fewer by-products are produced at cooler
temperatures, and that the by-products that are produced are more
quickly removed at warmer temperatures.
Pitching occurs at ~6C (43F), and fermentation is held at ~9C (48F)
until ~50% attenuation. At this point the temp is allowed to rise to
~12C (54F) to complete fermentation. Maturation is done at this
temperature until diacetyl has been removed, then temp is reduced to
near freezing and the beer lagered for a week (for colloidal
stability).
Well, there you have it. All of this stuff was taken from my Siebel
notes and Kunze (I'll be getting a lot of mileage out of this book).
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist) <walter at lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 11:13:08 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Witbier Yeast Sources
Howdy,
Lots of wit talk lately. Must be the season...
Anyway, what started as just brewing a witbier may have turned into a
somewhat larger experiment including testing several yeast strains. So I
have a couple of questions for the general belgian beer crowd:
Does anyone know the supposed origins of:
Wyeast 3942 Wit yeast?
Wyeast 3944 Wit yeast?
White Labs Belgian Wit yeats?
(I am getting all my yeast from the YCKC, just wanted to be able to
cross-reference the Wyeast/White Labs strains if applicable)
Thanks,
- --bjw
Brian J Walter | walter at lamar.colostate.edu
Chem Graduate Student | Homebrewer | RUSH Rocks Best!
Colorado State Univ | BJCP National Beer Judge | Green Bay Packers #1
------------------------------
From: jsturm at cccis.com
Date: Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:47:49 -0500
Subject: Trip Report
Hey all, My name is John and I just joined the lambic-digest. I have not
homebrewed in over 4 years so I am hoping that reading the list inspires me
to start up again. I am a devoted fan of Belgian Ales particularly the
lambic family. I am including in this mail my recollections of my recent 9
day Belgian excursion. Look forward to hearing from many of you.
Beers:
Rochefort 8 - The Rochefort Trappist ales are extremely scarce (read:
virtually unavailable) in the US and somewhat rare in Belgium except for
in the Specialist beer cafes and the area around the monastery. A Tasty
Brew that is a definitely lighter that the Rochefort 10. I didn't have
any of the 10 on this trip as I was still holding on to 2 bottles of
Rochefort 10 that I purchased last year in San Francisco.
Cantillon Geuze - Very acidic and sour gueze from the Cantillon Brewery
in the Anderlecht area of Brussels just outside of the Petit Ring in the
area of Gare Du Midi. The practically open door policy of this brewery
demands a visit from all who find themselves in the area of Brussels.
Zatte Bie - This strong Belgian ale is from the De Bie microbrewery in
the area of Watou in the south of Belgium. Enjoyed this one at 'The
Fox' in Aalst where we were taken by our gracious hosts for the evening,
Marc and Luc. Also enjoyed some excellent food at this pub/restaurant.
Mort Subite Geuze - Tried to order the Belle-Vue Selection Lambic but it
was out of stock. The MS is fairly available in the US, but I was just
in the mood for a geuze. Although not a traditional product it seemed
less sweet than when I had sampled it in Belgium in years past. Also
had this one at The Fox.
Cantillon Kriek - The superbly acidic kriek/gueze from Cantillon. This
was at De Babbelaar in Aalst. A very nice special beer cafe that, as so
many others in Belgium, houses a small puppet theater.
Drie Fontainen Lambik - Old lambic from the vat at the famous 3
Fountains restaurant in Beersel. I had 2 of these. Beersel is a mecca
for all lovers of traditional lamic beers. It is located about 8k from
Brussels. The 3 Fountains is an excellent restaurant as well as on of
the largest of the last traditional lambic blenders. The purchase
lambic from Boon, Girardin, and Lindemanns.
Oud Beersel Oud Lambik - An excellent draft lambic from the Oud
Beersel Brewery/Cafe located on the outskirts of Beersel. An excellent
country style cafe.
Oud Beersel Kriek - Shared a 750ml bottle of this with Dan. It was not
overly acidic which leads me to believe it was quite young for a blended
kriek geuze. One of the best Krieks I have ever had.
Oud Beersel Geuze - Also shared a 750ml bottle of this with Dan. What
an incredible geuze. Sour, yet not overly so. A more drinkable example
for the uninitiated that the Cantillon product.
Rochefortoise - A new tripel style beer in Belgium. This is one is from
the same folks who make Kwak. Truly a tasty, excellent brew.
Het Kappitel Abt - This strong Abbey style tripel had an aftertaste I
did not care for at all. I set it aside, had another Rochefortoise and
went back to it later and it was somewhat better. With the exception of
Zatte Bie I noticed this aftertaste in other beers from the Watou area.
Perhaps it is something in the water. Not that it is bad it just did
not agree with my tastes.
Hommelbier - A hoppy, bitter ale also from the Watou area brewery. Had
the same aftertaste but improved with increased consumption.
Straffe Hendrik - Reasonably strong and bitter ale from De Halve Maan
brewery in Brugge. Always reliable and somewhat available in the US.
Westvleteren 12 - A holy grail this trip, the Westvleteren is extremely
rare even in Belgium as they do not distribute thier beers. The pubs
must travel to the monastery to buy whatever is available (of the 3
styles, 6, 8, 12). The beers are available from the monastery only on
certain days. Finally got this one at T'Brugges Beertje in Brugge.
Very tasty dark trappist ale. One of the best.
Oud Beersel Kriek - I know I already included the one I had at the Oud
Beersel Cafe. This was a much older sample from the cellar at T'
Brugges Beertje. Much more dry and acidic like the Cantillon.
Excellent. This was also a 750ml I split w/Dan.
Westmalle Triple - The classic tripel, I ordered this one at a
Koffiehuis / restaurant in Ghent that was not a specialist beer cafe at
all.
Tripel Karmeliet - This new tripel, based on the Westmalle original is
bold tasting and full of flavor. One of Danny's favorites of the week.
Rodenbach Alexander - This "krieked" version of Rodenbach was most
unimpressive. Way to sweet for the moment.
Boon Geuze - Widely available in the US. Danny had 1 in Ghent and I
tried it. It was so good I ordered one on the next round. I have heard
of reports of some inconsistency in the Boon products. I also had a
bottle at the pub at Hotel Du Centrum in Beersel. At the wonderful
little pub the 37,5cl Geuze was served laid down in it's own little
basket.
Westvleteren 8 - Again from the St Sixtus Abbey, I was able to sample
the 8 degree version at de Garre in Brugge. Unfortunately my taste buds
were not fresh enough to be able to really appreciate this rare brew.
Girardin Gueze - the rare black label unfiltered version Girardin 1882
Gueze. Excellent.
Hanssen's Geuze - Only available in the tradition style. The experts
say it has a rhubarbish flavor. I don't know about that but it is a
little different and it's excellent.
Belle-Vue Geuze - A poor commercial example of the style. Forgive me, I
was in Amsterdam at a non-specialist cafe. The idiot didn't know what
brand it was so I took a chance, hoping for a Mort Subite.
Duvel - Same bar. I didn't see it on the menu originally. Dan did.
Duvel was the best they had.
Westvleteren 6 - The extremely rare 6 degree version. Found in in
Amsterdam at In De Wildeman, an excellent specialist cafe. I was told
they had just made a trip to the abbey two weeks prior so it was a
fairly fresh example. Very flavorful thanks to clean taste buds.
Rocherfort 6 - Another extremely rare find, the 6 degree version of
Rocherfort. Excellent as well.
T'Ij Paasbier - The Easter beer from the T'IJ microbrewery in Amsterdam.
Full o'flavor.
TIj Columbus - Their most potent regular brew. Very good but I should
of had it before the Paasbier.
De Konink - bottle version. OK. THE beer of Antwerp.
De Konink - draft version. Much better than the bottled version. A
classic pale ale.
De Neve Geuze - This was the unfiltered version in the 750 ml bottle
w/no label, just a white sash mark. This was at Aux Armes de Tirlemont
in Antwerp. This place must be visited to be believed. A 400 year old
locals pub on the verge of crashing into the street.
De Troch Geuze Chapeau - Again the unfiltered version from a 37,5 cl
bottle. Not particularly traditional tasting.
Westvleteren 12 (1988) - A ten year old bottle of this rare classic.
Must be tasted to be believed. Excellent.
Oerbier (1980) - Not really Oerbier for those of you who know. This
particular bottle was, I believe, the first brewed by De Dolle Brouwers
in Esen, Belgium. It was brewed in 1980 and only 210 cases were bottled
in 1982. One of the best and most interesting beers I have ever tasted.
Girardin Lambik - availabe at In De Oud Pruim in Beersel. Tasty old
lambic.
Drie Bronnen Kriek Lambic - A home made kriek lambic, available on
draft, at the 3 Springs in Beersel. Very nice. Not to sweet, not to
sour.
Well those are the beers. Here are some of the better cafes/pubs we
visited.
Brussels Toone - Classic puppet theater just off Rue da la Bouchers which
is not far from the Grand Place.
La Porte Noir - Between Halleport and the center. 16th c. cellar
cafe. Young crowd. Good beer list
Aalst The Fox - Nice cafe / restaurant. I had heard of it
somewhere and asked Marc to take us there. Very good food.
De Babbelaar - Excellent specialist cafe in Aalst. Also a puppet
theater. Drie Fontainen on the menu.
Beersel Drie Fontainen - Incredible restaurant and lambic blender in
Beersel. Excellent food and beer.
In't Bierhuis Oud Beersel - Classic bar attached to the lambic
brewery. Older locals crowd. One of my faves.
Hotel Du Center - Great tavern and restaurant. Also a very nice
hotel. I stayed there solo my last night in Belgium
In De Oud Pruim - Also a great tavern /restaurant. Same family
for over 120 years.
Drie Bronnen - Classic Beersel cafe w/homemade kriek lambic (not
geuze) and Hansenns Gueze
Brugge T'Brugges Beertje - Absolutely one of the best specialist
cafes in the world. Can be a few too many tourists but worth it.
de Garre - Nice place, Chicks dig it.
Ghent Dulle Griet - Excellent specialist bar for beer tourists and
business men. Have read reports of poor service but I've always enjoyed
myself here.
De Spijker - In English "The Nail." Nice tavern/restaurant in an
ancient building on the Graslei with moder fixtures.
Het Waterhuis en Bierkant - Great specialist cafe near the
Gravensteen.
Antwerp Aux Armes de Tirlemont - on the Eiermarkt near the Grote Markt.
Locals pub. De Neve unfiltered geueze.
Kulminator - Also on the the best specialist cafes in the World
Amsterdam In De Wildeman - great specialist cafe in the old center. Much
care is taken in the stocking and serving of Belgian beers.
Zotte - In the Liedsplein area. As is to be expected a little
noisy but a great list.
Also visited and drank at about 6 other non specialist cafes and
restaurants that are really not worth mentioning for there beer selection.
------------------------------
End of lambic-digest V1 #55
***************************
