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Lambic Digest V1 #054
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lambic-digest Wednesday, 8 April 1998 Volume 01 : Number 054
Re: hard winter wheat, lagering
Re: Wit help
Re: lambic-digest V1 #53
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Scott Bickham <srb at t4.lanl.gov>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 08:45:09 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: hard winter wheat, lagering
Michael Fay wrote:
>
> I bought a 50lb sack of hard red winter wheat from the local co-op (good
> thing I have a corona mill) and am about to embark on a wit-making
> experience. My first question (and there will probably be more) is, can I
> get by with a single infusion mash with all that raw wheat? How necessary
> is a protein rest? I've only done a few step-infustion mashes and they are
> a big PIMA.
Hate to break it to you, but the best way to handle this stuff is to
do a double mash. That's essentially a decoction in which the
crushed wheat is boiled with 0.5 lb. or so of pils malt, and then
added to a main mash of pilsner malt. Bill Ridgely made an excellent
wit this way, and I think the boil time was around 45 minutes.
Conn Copas asked:
> Nothing definitive to add, just some musings. I am yet to hear a
> comprehensive
> account of what cold conditioning does for ales, and would appreciate any
> thoughts. The main uncertainty of course is that the yeast cannot be
> expected to
> be working at cold temperatures, so what is going on?
I think the main reason to stabilize the different compounds. Esterification
will take place without the yeast being active, and there are also redox
reactions which stabilize the various oxidizing and reducing agents,
reduce diacetyl and acetaldehyde, etc.
The best analogy is looking at what happens when lactic acid is added
to a wit at bottling. This throws the acid/ester/alcohol balance out
of whack and maturation takes much longer than when the lactic acid
is produced during the fermentation.
Scott
------------------------------
From: Rick Garvin <rgarvin at hypersysinc.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Apr 1998 13:32:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Wit help
Michael asked: "How necessary is a protein rest? I've only done a few
step-infustion mashes and they are a big PIMA."
HeHe. Blessed are the glue makers. Doing a step infusion or a decoction of
a mash that is 50% wheat will give you true belief in enzymes. Jim Busch
and Phil Seitz did a lot of work coming up with a good mash schedule for
this beer. The schedule I use is: Dough in at 117F. 20-minute rests at 117F
and 122F. 60 minute rest at 146F. Mash out to 160F.
The full recipe I use is at <http://hbd.org/brewery/cm3/recs/09_65.html>
Cheers, Rick
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------------------------------
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Date: Wed, 8 Apr 1998 13:20:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: lambic-digest V1 #53
Conn writes---
>There is a sentiment floating
>around in lager circles that cold maturation reduces esters, but I am yet to
>hear any real explanation of that mechanism and, particularly, any statement
>about whether active yeast is necessary to catalyse that process.
The mechanism (I'm told) is via esterases, but you need to have the right
enzyme for each ester... right? I didn't have room to cold-condition all
my Altbier, so I cold-conditioned half of it (40F) and the rest was between
60 and 68F. As it turns out, the cold-conditioned was fruitier than the
warm-conditioned. That would make sense if enzymatic pathways are at work...
enzymes work slower at colder temps, right?
But! You have to remember that there is some esterification that is going
on too (yeast combining acids and alcohols, making esters). So, these two
processes are working against each other, right?
>Lastly, if
>the brew enters the cold conditioning phase possessing a reasonable level of
>dissolved CO2, and the conditioning occurs in a closed system, then it may be
>speculated that a finer bead will eventually result.
Wild speculation, I'd call it... I don't see any reason that the carbonation
should be finer... dissolved CO2 is dissolved CO2. Perhaps some proteins
might break down, perhaps some foam-negative lipids may be consumed by the
yeast (this is all wild speculation on my part), but I haven't experienced
any changes in carbonation beyond a month or two except on some very high-
alcohol beers (few surviving yeast, I presume) or on a few fruit beers in
which I suspect superattenuative wild yeast from the fruit skins.
>
>As I see it, there are a couple of issues which need to be resolved before the
>average home brewer can be sure of benefitting from cold ale maturation. These
>issues include (a) whether the maturation occurs in bulk or in bottle
I think the difference here really is only on the amount of yeast in the
bottom of the bottle... longer bulk maturation means less yeast in the
bottle.
>(b) whether the maturation occurs in a closed pressure system
I have read that yeast act slightly differently when under pressure
(I know I do)... whether this also affects the products involved during
conditioning, I don't know.
> (c) whether
>the maturation occurs soon after fermentation or, instead, closer to the time
>of consumption
I don't think I understand this... do you mean months of warm-conditioning
followed by months of cold-conditioning VS. all cold-conditioning?
>(d) whether the maturation is indeed accompanied by conditioning,
>as in CO2 production (eg, through use of a lager yeast, or through artificial
>carbonation).
I think that yeast play an important role, however Anchor's Old Foghorn
improves with age and it is filtered and flash pasteurised, I believe.
Anyone?
Al.
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End of lambic-digest V1 #54
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