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Lambic Digest V1 #058
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lambic-digest Monday, 4 May 1998 Volume 01 : Number 058
Hanssen's
Permanent Haze
Re: Hannsens - the next generation
Beerpubs serving traditional Geuze
Is Chimay culturable?
autoclaving query and cheap agar source
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Volker <ebbelw01 at clark.net>
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 12:58:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hanssen's
Peter writes about Hanssen's:
>I include some more information about Hanssens, because for people from
>abroad, the only way to get the Hanssens Geuze and Kriek is probably to
>get it in Belgium:
Well, thos of us fortunate to live in a state where B. United does
business are able to get at least the Hanssen's Gueuze. You may want to
investigate if there is a liquor distributor in your area that deals with
B. United (an importer who brings in lots of fun stuff).
Cheers,
Volker
Brewer's Art
Baltimore, MD
ebbelw01 at clark.net
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:36:09 -0700
Subject: Permanent Haze
Hi all,
Conn Copas writes about my comments on chill haze becoming permanent:
"Interesting. I've made numerous brews that exhibited haze when
chilled, but I've never had one that transformed itself into permanent
haze, even two years down the track. I'm wondering here whether this
phenomenon is in practice
most relevant to pro brewing methods, particularly the avoidance of
bottle conditioning."
The avoidance of bottle conditioning may be key to this. It has been
postulated that the enzymes released by yeast during autolysis can
break down protein. Aside from giving the beer a thinner body and
hurting head retention, this will also eliminate chill haze. You need
both protein and tannin to make haze; get rid of one and the beer is
clear.
A paper presented by Prof. Back at a recent (Feb. 98) technical
conference at Weihenstephan talks about this. It is quite relevant to
Weizen beer, because the yeasts that are used to ferment them seem to
be more prone to autolysis than some other strains. Clear, headless
Weizen is a concern!
Oxidation is also key to the process of chill haze becoming permanent.
In Lambic, with a wide variety of microbes in residence throughout the
fermentation, it would not be surprising to find that one (or more) of
the little critters could cleave haze-causing protein. This would
effectively chill-proof the beer.
I've noticed that bottled commercial lagers will develop flocs over
time. This is probably the most extreme form of permanent haze. It
does settle to the bottom, but is easily roused.
Conn also wonders why the term "colloidal stability" is used, rather
than "precipitate." Heck, I don't know! I guess somebody thought it
sounds better.
You are indeed causing the chill haze to precipitate by lagering at
cold temperatures. Removing it (by fining, filtration, time, etc.)
makes the beer stable, from a haze perspective.
At least i did use the word "Lambic" in this post...
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Mark Gryska <mgryska at javanet.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 22:52:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Hannsens - the next generation
Peter writes:
> Recently the news came out that the Geuze-blender Jean Hanssens has given
> over his business to his daughter Cindy Hanssens and her husband John. The
> future of one of the last remaining Geuze-blenders seems secured this way.
> Hanssens, 3 fonteinen and De Cam are the last remaining independent
> Geuze-blenders at this moment.
There are the folks at Oud Beersel as well? My understanding is that
the other producers of lambic are helping each other where they can. The
production is a long tradition that spans time out of mind; No doubt
there are industry forces that manufacture what some consider an
inferior product, after all they are bound by a market that prefers a
softer flavor (my observation); In that sense it is a matter of taste. I
prefer the traditional product and I believe that more than anything it
is an issue of labelling. Basically the consumer should be aware of what
it is they are getting.
> I include some more information about Hanssens, because for people from
> abroad, the only way to get the Hanssens Geuze and Kriek is probably to get
> it in Belgium:
I have seen Hanssens in the states but it is rare. Cantillon, Giardin
and Frank Boon breweries produce traditional but very different
products. Cantillon & Boon are fairly well distributed in Massachusetts
and Lindemans Cuvee Renee (whatever its production method) is tasty on a
hot summer day. I hope this isn't interpreted as a rant, I really enjoy
this style of beer and hope that the consumer is not mislead (the
biggest offender being that cranberry stuff) as to what they are
drinking. Lambic is not for everyone and quite frankly I'm glad because
otherwise I fear that the only place in which it could be purchased is
at the source. Thanks for the address, hopefully the next time I visit
Belgium I will be able to visit Dworp (and while there purchase some ;)
- mg
------------------------------
From: Peter <73671.1554 at compuserve.com>
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 10:38:31 -0400
Subject: Beerpubs serving traditional Geuze
Hi,
I have created a new Webpage about beerpubs that serve traditional Geuze
and other Lambic-style beers in Flanders, Belgium. It is still very much a
work in progress (as the other pages) and I will update the page as I find
more information.
location (URL):
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pvosta/pcrbier5.htm
Greetings,
Peter
------------------------------
From: Michael Pullmann <psu14860 at odin.cc.pdx.edu>
Date: Sat, 2 May 1998 19:58:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Is Chimay culturable?
Is the yeast in the dregs of chimay comparable to the yeast used for
fermentation? Anyone been happy with the results of using this yeast?
Sorry, as this is off-topic from lambic, but the digest has been rather
slow lately, so...
thanks
mike
------------------------------
From: blacksab at midwest.net (Harlan Bauer)
Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 20:10:07 -0500
Subject: autoclaving query and cheap agar source
After fighting with the big chunks of agar sold in oriental grocery stores
(very hard to dissolve), I stumbled across some really nice granulated agar
at a Vietnamese grocery in Chicago--25g./$1.15. It's sold under the name
*Telephone Brand Agar-Agar Powder* and is packaged in Thailand. It dissolves
beautifully and makes a nice, firm plate at 15g/L. One caveat: there are a
bunch of agar powders that contain sugar and/or flavoring, so read the
package carefully.
After reading George Fix's description for making up tubes of HLP (Hsu's
Lactobacillus and Pediococcus) media in *Analysis of Brewing Techniques*, I
got to wondering whether the powdered variety can be autoclaved. I gather
that the cyclohexamide breaks down with heat, but to what degree? Without
autoclaving, how can one be assured of sterility?
TIA,
Harlan.
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
Carbondale, IL To justify God's ways to man.
<blacksab at midwest.net> --A.E. Houseman
------------------------------
End of lambic-digest V1 #58
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