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Lambic Digest V1 #025
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lambic-digest Wednesday, 15 October 1997 Volume 01 : Number 025
GABF "Lambics"
wyeast 3278
Re: lambic-digest V1 #24
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Stephen Beaumont <beaumont at netcom.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 09:12:48 -0400
Subject: GABF "Lambics"
I'd like to add two cents worth to the debate over the GABF "lambic"
category; not my own, mind you, but those of someone eminently more
qualified: Jean-Pierre Van Roy of Brasserie Cantillon.
It is Jean-Pierre's position, as related to me during a most animated
discussion this past summer, that the geographic location where the
spontaneous fermentation takes place is irrelevant to the beer's merits as
a lambic. A true lambic, Jean-Pierre told me, could just as easily be made
in Boston as in Brussels.
What is important to Jean-Pierre is the high percentage of unmalted wheat
(I'm afraid that I forget what he said should be the lowest threshold), the
natural and spontaneous fermentation, the use of aged hops and the aging of
the beer in wooden casks. If those qualities are present, he says, it
matters not where the beer is produced.
Incidentally, on the subject of Cantillon, Jean-Pierre is releasing a
commercial version of his St. Emilion cabernet sauvignon-merlot lambic this
fall in Belgium, called St. Lamvinus. I was led to believe that some of it
might make it over to North American shores, but as I know that the Shelton
Broers monitor this digest, perhaps I can leave that matter out for them to
address.
Cheers,
S.
_________________________________________
Visit Stephen Beaumont's World of Beer at
http://www.WorldOfBeer.com
Find Out What's Brewing Around the Globe!
Exclusively on the Internet!
------------------------------
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 7:46:22 -0700 (MST)
Subject: wyeast 3278
Paul aks:
>
> What is in the Wyeast 3278 (Belgian Lambic Blend)? Is it Brettanomyces
> and Pediococcus cultures mixed (the pamplet seems to allude to this)?
> Does it have any Saccharomyces cerevisiae?
>
Some saccharomyces, some brett and a bacteria. Not pediococcus. A motile rod
of some sort. I have it archived for further study when time and curiosity
allow.
Jim
------------------------------
From: user at fenland.source.co.uk (Rob & Liz Thomas)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 18:40:25 +0100
Subject: Re: lambic-digest V1 #24
hello all,
Conn Copas <conn.copas at dsto.defence.GOV.AU>wrote some more about
head retention, that I'm not going to quote. This being purely that
I'm getting out of this bit of discussion until I have more facts
(experimental).
Jim wrote:
>Well maybe not for the vast majority of their beer. But Until I see otherwise
>I think the mythical wood vats at St James Gate have more in the wood than
>lactic acid bacteria.
I'm waiting till they get a new archivist (the current one is on
long leave.
>After having reviewed some literature I'm not convinced that B. anomalus is the
>only brett strain of importance. In a historical context what was call B.
>claussenii Custers is likely one of the strains. It seems strains that ferment
>cellobiose are a good candidate since this is a component of oak.
In an uncontroled (ie acceidental, or not innoculated) use of secondary yeasts
there must have been many strains with the potential to be discovered. Whether
we need them all is debatable.
Cellobiose is a component of wood like sucrose is a component of starch. Many
bretts ferment / assimilate sucrose, but not many get to grips with starch
(soluble, let alone insoluble)
>Brettanomyces genus. Also it would appear that lactic acid bacteria are
>another important component.
>
>And I'm going to agree that for at least a few beers brett is still important.
The biggest point at the moment is perhaps whether we should be randomly
grouping Guiness with Stock ales, and confering the character of one onto
the other.
>> to using non Sacch bugs in English beers is the secondary fermentation
>> and condition which is induced (by B. anomalus). I'm still checking back
>> on some obscure literature which may tell me what the overall effect was.
>>
>
>"they produced a pleasant flavour in beers of orignal gravity about 1075"
I may have found a brewer that remembers them!!
>So it would seem that As many have mentioned a real relationship between
>English beers and Rodenbach. Make a 1075 beer and ferment it and add some
>lactic bacteria and brett. Make sure it is not over attneuated when you do
>this. I guess a low innoculum of ale yeast might ensure this along wiht no
>oxygenation. Another experiment> :-)
don't start this yet. I'll be typing up mark one review of what I found
at the weekend. But to go on with: the beer should be fully attenuated proir
to pitching the brett.
cheers
rob
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End of lambic-digest V1 #25
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