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Lambic Digest V1 #023
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lambic-digest Friday, 10 October 1997 Volume 01 : Number 023
GABF Lambics
GABF lambics
Belgium Brewery Tour
Re: lambic-digest V1 #22
Re: lambic-digest V1 #22
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brewboy1 at aol.com
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 01:02:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: GABF Lambics
As I wandered the floor of the GABF this year I was on a mission to taste the
various "Belgian Style" offerings that were on display. I must say that I
was rather disappointed but many of the so called Belgian Style ales. First,
I must state for the record that I like many of you revere the Belgians and
their artistic endeavors. With this prejudice in mind I will also say that
the best Belgian Style ale in the building did win. The New Belgium Abbey
ale continues to be the cream of the crop. I was also pleased to see New
Glarus continues its march into the history books.
In the other Belgian Style ales category we found a few Lambics(p) and Wit
beers. I too found many of the Wit beers to be fairly tasteless and some
utterly insipid. The big question that was posed which prompted my response
was the question regarding the Lambics(p) that one the two medals. I tasted
both of them. I personally believe that the gueze which was awarded the
silver medal was a "better" beer than the gold medal lambic. And, I must
also state for the record that the organizers did injustice to all of the
Belgian style ales by placing the Wit beers in the same category with the
Lambics and Sour Red and Brown ales. I guess we should be relieved that they
are actually attempting to broaden the amount of subcategories to include
many of the lesser brewed Belgian Style beers.
I can only hope that after this years flight of Belgian Style ales, next
years class will be better.
My pocket full of change...
Tomme Arthur
------------------------------
From: Dave Sapsis <DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov>
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 10:16:21 -0700
Subject: GABF lambics
I was fortunate enough not to try all the (p)lambics at GABF, but I have
somewhat of a different take on the winners than Phil. The gold from
Cleveland had approriate brett character but to mew was woefully lacking
in acidity, and had almost no complexity of cheese/goat/funk. There was
a distinct tannic oakiness in the late palte that I found disagreeable.
I would have socred this beer in the high 20's. Struck me as in severe
need of aging to get good. The silver from Fremont (Mike: you giving
these guys bugs?) was pretty flat in character, with almost no sourness
and only a faint dusty/metalic taste that was probably from the Brett.
While the nose hinted horsey, it wads very faint in the flavor. Also,
it had a noticeable bitterness. For me a mid 20's. The only other
lambic I had was some raspberry soda pop crap that had no perceptable
"infection" whatsoever.
By far and away the best lambic I had last weekend was proctoring the
BJCP exam, where Scott
Bickham brought one of his (gueze) for one of the test beers. Rock
solid, but could have used a more funky/enteric complexity for my
tastes. Most folks (including three Europeans) scored it mid/high
30's. Nonetheless, it made the commercial examples look pathetic.
Interestingly, I had a couple wits at GABF that I thought were quite
good. So take my comments with a grain of salt. They are offered only
as opinion. That,after all, is all beer evaluation is.
David Sapsis
Fire and Fuels Specialist
CDF Fire and Resource Assessment Program
916.227.1338 dave_sapsis at fire.ca.gov
------------------------------
From: Dirk Houser <houser at nfs.aisf.com>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 8:02:56 PDT
Subject: Belgium Brewery Tour
I was fortunate enough to be one of the few that took advantage of a Belgium
Brewery Tour that Global Beer Network organized. The trip was the first
two weeks of September and we got to visit Brasserie de Silenrieux,
Brasserie de Silly, Brouwerij Van Steenberg, and Brouwerij De Keersmaeker.
For more interesting reading about this, check out www.globalbeer.com.
I understand they will be doing this trip next year only with a slightly
different itinerary. I highly recommend it, especially if you have never
been to Belgium.
- --
Enjoy,
Dirk Houser
------------------------------
From: "Michael J. Docy" <mikedocy at apk.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 12:37:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: lambic-digest V1 #22
> From: Michael.Nemier at ipaper.com
> Subject: The Dreaded Wyeast Lambic Blend
>
> The characteristic lambic acidity and "horsey-ness" was
> not present (obvious lack of acid-producing bacteria and
> Brettanomyces), with the flavor profile completely dominated by an
> intense clovey-ness with some banana. I feel like I could have spared
> myself the trouble (and worry of unleashing these nasties in the
> brewhouse) and just pitched a Wyeast Weinhestephan Wheat.
>
> Question - is my experience typical with this culture, and why?
>
> Mike Nemier
> ------------------------------
I wonder if it was a mislabled Wyeast pack?
In my one time experience using Wyeast 3278, in a cherry/wheat, I
fermented warm, 78F, and have too much horseyness, no clove, no banana.
After 1 month in the primary and 2 months in the secondary there is a
slight but noticeable sourness and a film on the surface , (lacto?).
I'll probably let it age another 6 months then blend it with a
cherry/wheat using Wyeast 3942 Belgian Wheat to reduce the horseyness.
>From the taste so far I think the 3278 would make an acceptable Orval
clone with the horseyness and lactic souring, but it is too
one-dimensional tasting for a plambic.
Mike Docy
------------------------------
From: user at fenland.source.co.uk (Rob & Liz Thomas)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:20:56 +0100
Subject: Re: lambic-digest V1 #22
Hello All
Jim wrote:
>I have never read about brettanomyces of any type producing lactic acid. Ac=
etic
>yes, lactic no. Baloney is my impolite response.
see Van Oevelen's thesis, Agricultura (Heverlee) 26,(4),353-505
>I'll have to do some bottle conditioning wiht this yeast. But again brett =
has
>the enyzmatic ability to degrade all the dextrins in the beer. And how doe=
s
>what a yeast does have anything to do with a lingering head. I thought the
>beer foam was related to proteins. Historically silliness?
well, actually, any source of colloids. Do bretts have proteases?
>Again this is from one set of data. If you combine all the Phd.s that have
>ever sampled lambic casks it still would not be that many and the sampling
>techniques a fraught with all kinds of error. and this data is for anomala
>and it may or may not be the same as the strain you are interested in. And =
the
>classification is based on the fermentation and assimlation data you alread=
y
>poo pooed. :-)
exactly ;)
>> the action of brettanomyces is absoluteley neccesary to bring English sto=
ck
>> beers into proper cask and bottle condition, and to impart to them that
>> peculier and remarkably fine flavour which in a great measure determines
>> their value.
>>
>
>This sounds like michael jackson waxing poetically. Science? Objective?
written separately by three separate authors including this one. Surely
you're being paranoid!
>> ... to pasturised beer ...added a slight portion of Brettanomyces, .. sto=
re
>> at 75-85 F for 14 days, a slight deposit will be observable and at the sa=
me
>> time the beer will assume an unmistakable English character, both in rega=
rd
>> to its content of carbonic gas and to its taste and flavour
>
>Oh yea that quantitative measure called "Englsih character" ugh. Some peo=
ple
>might call the character "infected".
so now who's poo pooing! I'll let you know in a few weeks
>Much of this is in jest.
what?! at =A3! I thought you were serious
>I deleted a dsicussion of taxonomy until I get some genetic info
>together. Real science.
morphology? that's my real point.
>
>Jim
Cheers,
Rob.
p.s. if anyone else wants to stick their oar in, feel free, after all, only
Jim knows what he's talking about anyway 8)
------------------------------
End of lambic-digest V1 #23
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