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lambic-digest Tuesday, 24 February 1998 Volume 01 : Number 045
Goudenband
Harvesting Yeast from Boon Geuze, etc.
Re: De Konick
Liefman's/L. delbrueckii/
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 07:49:46 -0800
Subject: Goudenband
Hi all,
I just thought I'd make you all a bit envious:
This past Saturday the brewer's from both Liefman's and the place that
makes Straffe Hendrik and Lucifer (the name escapes me; I'm poor with
names) were at a local bar here in NY City. They were kind enough to
share some bottles of Goudenband with us. Not just any Goudenband:
one bottle was from 1970, the other was from 1987. Rumour has it that
a few days earlier they opened a bottle of 1959 Goudenband.
The 1970 Goudenband was very sherry like in the nose, with a
surprisingly high level of alcohol (remember, Goudenband was only
recently developed into a relatively big beer). The carbonation had
long since left the bottle. The sour tang in the finish balanced the
sherry notes quite nicely. The body was pretty watery, and there
wasn't much in the way of malt flavor left. The alcohol was not as
noticeable in the palate as it was in the nose.
The 1987 was really good: it was still carbonated, and the oxidation
lent the beer a very nice, sweet character that was balanced by the
sour finish. I would highly recommend cellaring Goudenband for 10
years (assuming that this bottle wasn't a freak of nature).
This wonderful beer experience cost ZILCH. The wonderful bar that
hosted the event is called DBA and is located at 41 1st Avenue in
Manhattan. I am in no way affiliated, blah, blah...
If you are ever in NYC, I highly recommend it. Probably my favorite
bar in town.
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Wayne_Kozun at otpp.com
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:36:37 -0500
Subject: Harvesting Yeast from Boon Geuze, etc.
I know many of these topics are covered in the FAQ but I want to get
feedback from people who have tried different methodologies.
I plan to try brewing my first p-Lambic in the near future and I have a few
questions which I hope the braintrust here may be able to help me with.
I have a few bottles of Boon Geuze. What is the likelihood of successfully
making a yeast starter from the dregs of my bottles of Boon (they have a
year of 1995-96). The Lambic FAQ page (by Jeremy Bergsman) contains the
following quote: "those of us who have looked at what is in the sediment of
a Boon lambic have discovered that the only yeast generally recoverable is
indeed non-cyloheximide resistant yeast, most likely Saccharomyces"
Even if I do make a successful starter what is the probability of having
viable strains of Pediococcus, Brettanomyces, etc. Should I pitch some
regular ale yeast into the yeast starter as well.
Would I be better off using the Wyeast Lambic blend? Or should I make a
starter with both the Wyeast lambic blend plus the sediment from Boon
Geuze?
Another question is what should I use as a fermentation vessel. Is a HDPE
plastic bucket okay (this is what many people typically use as primaries
for beer or winemkaing. Or should I stick to a glass carboy or a plastic
carboy? Could I use a plastic water cooler jug (a plastic see through
carboy)? Is it okay to have headspace in the fermentation vessel? Should
I use an airlock? If I shouldn't have headspace then do you have to top up
after the initial fermentation slows down?
Should I add oak chips while my lambic is fermenting to give it oak
flavour.
------------------------------
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 10:35:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: De Konick
Paul Larson asked:
>
> I want to brew a de Koninck clone using a recipe from Wheeler and Protz's
> book. Any ideas on what yeast would work? What does de Koninck do for
> primary vs. later fermentations? I've read that they've a special house
> yeast that must be obtained for an accurate match. Apologies if this
> material is in previous digests...not sure where to search.
You can get the (a?) De Koninck yeast from the Yeast Culture Kit Co.
(http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco/). I've used it, but the resulting
beer is much more estery than the real stuff, even when I fermented at
60 F. I'd be interested in knowing if they use more than one strain
or cold-condition.
Scott
------------------------------
From: Al Korzonas <korz at xnet.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 13:36:50 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Liefman's/L. delbrueckii/
Someone (oop! sorry) writes:
>> Our local Ontario liquour monopoly the LCBO is getting in some beers from
>> Liefmans. The beer they will have are: Frambozenbier at $5.35, Kriekbier
>> at $4.90
>> and Goudenband at $4.45 all come in 375-ml bottles. Does anyone have any
>> opinions on these beers? How do Liefmans products compare to Boon's
>> products.
As others have noted, these are fruit beers based upon a Flanders Brown Ale
and a Flanders Brown Ale. Incidentally, Rodenbach calls itself a "Belgian
Brown Ale" for marketing reasons... they don't wan't to associate their
beer with only one "half" of the country.
I'd like to point out that Goudenband has been changed. It used to be
somewhere between 5 and 6% ABV, but that maybe two years ago, they changed
the recipe to make it an 8% ABV beer. I have not tried the new beer, but
I did buy all the old Goudenband that my local store had.
I *loved* the old Goudenband. It tasted to me like *liquid continental
pastry* (like German strudel or French butter pastries). Yum!
***
Nathan writes:
>I think this has been raised on the LD before, but I was thinking of doing
>a fermentation with Lactobacillus delbrukii (?spelling). I've received
>some feedback that once it's in my brewery (home brewery, that is) that
>I'll never get it out. I thougth this had come up before here, but what's
>the concensus? Can I effectively sanitize my equipment after using Lacto.
>d.? Thanks.
Of course you can, but L. delbrueckii (I'm not sure of the spelling either!)
is a rather weak lactic bacteria... I believe that even high hopping rates
will kill it. Pediococcus cerevisiae (aka P. damnosus)... ahh, now there's
a worthy adversary! Even so, I've made beers with it and then plenty of
uninfected beers afterwords. I do keep separate hoses and stoppers and
plastic fermenters for it, but I don't worry about the glass or stainless
at all.
***
Paul writes:
>I want to brew a de Koninck clone using a recipe from Wheeler and Protz's
>book. Any ideas on what yeast would work? What does de Koninck do for
>primary vs. later fermentations? I've read that they've a special house
>yeast that must be obtained for an accurate match. Apologies if this
>material is in previous digests...not sure where to search.
You will need the yeast to get it perfect, but the DeKoninck yeast is
not extremely assertive. You can get it by the bucket (no kidding)
at many bars in Antwerpen, but I'm nearly 100% sure Dan McConnell has
it (The Yeast Culture Kit Company). I think what you want is A72.
Dan is online, has a website and runs ads in the back of at least Brewing
Techniques.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at xnet.com
My new website (still under construction, but up-and-running):
http://www.brewinfo.com/brewinfo/
------------------------------
End of lambic-digest V1 #45
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