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Lambic Digest #1050
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Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 00:30:09 -0700
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Subject: Lambic Digest #1050 (March 24, 1997)
Lambic Digest #1050 Mon 24 March 1997
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Flanders Golden Ale: 3 Monts, Brasserie de St. Sylvestre (RockConsul)
Lambic Digest #1049 (March 23, 1997) (MR FRANK E PATINO)
3787 data point (David Reynolds)
RE: Lambic Digest #1049 (March 23, 1997) (Jim Liddil)
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Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 10:55:56 -0500 (EST)
From: RockConsul at aol.com
Subject: Flanders Golden Ale: 3 Monts, Brasserie de St. Sylvestre
I realize this is actually a French biere from extreme N. France. I trust
you will allow me this short trip across the border.
I am in the process of formulating the recipe for approximating this fine
product. I know that a blend of Belgian and, of all things, English pilsner
is used along with Belgian candy sugar. Apparently and according to Michael
Jackson, three yeasts are used. The biere is put through primary
fermentation then bottled and lain down for three months to bottle age. The
product is cork finished rather than capped.
Is anyone familiar with this biere? Has anyone successfully approximated it?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Next, I would like to obtain the 25.4 ounce amber bottles into which this and
many other bieres of the region are bottled. Since the bottles have a
rounded crown, they are not cappable and are made exclusively for cork
finishing. Does anyone know of a source for these? RSVP
Thanks,
Michael Rocchio
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:21:48, -0500
From: RYND41A at prodigy.com (MR FRANK E PATINO)
Subject: Lambic Digest #1049 (March 23, 1997)
Please take me off of your mailing list.
Thank you. Frank Patino
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 22:54:27 -0500
From: David Reynolds <dreynolds at cyburban.com>
Subject: 3787 data point
In LD #1047 Norman wrote:
> I never saw so much yeast in my life!
> 5 gallons in a 7 gal. acid bottle still managed to spew
> out of the top of the bottle for a couple of days.
You're not kidding, I made a 1 gallon starter of this
Westmalle/Rochefort (does anyone know which?) strain in 2 one gallon
bottles. After an inch or two of krausen for 24 hours, both cultures
overcame the half-gallon head space overnight. There was about 40ml of
solid yeast (the foam had dried out) that had dripped over the foil
covered rim to the tabletop. What a waste of fresh, healthy, active
yeast! Make sure you have a lot of head space in the starter vessels
for this strain.
This strain is a good candidate for top cropping from open fermentors.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 1997 21:48:23 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: RE: Lambic Digest #1049 (March 23, 1997)
Jeremy wrote:
>
> In private email Jim Liddil added that he uses amphotericin B in
> addition to oxyrase. I believe this is a broad spectrum inhibitor
> of fungi. Can anyone suggest a concentration? Sigma suggests
> 0.3-1 microgram/ml. (It cannot be autoclaved or filtered in
> aqueous media. They suggest filtering in DMSO.)
>
I use 1 microgram/ml. We use two forms in the lab one is a water soluble
preparation from Sigma that is presterilized and the other is a liposomal
formulation which we evaluated for use against leishmania (sp?). Both of these
preparations come lyopholized and we prepare them with sterile water for
injection. We were essentially given a lifetime supply of Amph B by the drug
comapny that made the liposomal form. Various other antifunagla agents like
micinazole can also be used. This is the stuff in athletes foot treatment
sprays and creams. When I was going through the "isolate all stuff in every
lambic phase" I found as jeremy did that you can get some pretty weird molds
and such out of lambics. So when all I wanted was bacteria I used a broad
spectrum antifungal agent.
>
> Cycloheximide prevents the growth of most Eukaryotes (e.g. fungi),
> but spares many "wild" yeast. In particular, it spares Brett and
> Candida but prevents Saccharomyces growth. In other words, if
> it grows on cycloheximide (also known as actidione) it isn't
> Sac. and if it came from lambic it is probably brett (or bacterial,
> which is easy to tell under a microscope). An easy test that
> adds to the certainty that you have brett in this case is to test
> for acid production, usually by streaking on plates containing
> supersaturated CaCO3 which is milky until it is dissolved by
> any secreted acid. Brett will therefore form a clear area around
> itself on such plates.
Specifically cycloheximide is a protien synthesis inhibitor and has antifungal
properties. It is fairly specific for saccahromyces, with most other yeast
being resistant. I have found no decrease in acitivty when used in cac03 agar.
For those who want to view the "zone of clearing" I have a photo on my web
page. (blatant plug). Various other yeast can produce acid but the only thing
surviving ina bottle of lambic that is also chx-resistant is going to be a
brett (or dekkera).
>
More notes about cycloheximide while we're at it: you can autoclave
> it, and fairly concentrated stocks can be made in EtOH. It is pretty
> nasty stuff, so handle carefully. I have read that it is inactivated
> in dilute alkali, which would suggest that cyc/CaCO3 plates might
> not work. Anyone care to comment?
> - --
I prepared a 10 mg/ml stock in EtOH that I keep in the freezer. I have seen no
problems using it wiht caco3 agar.
Nasty is
relative but lets not get started about toxicology lest Mike start spewing
again :-) Let's just say that anyone who has been able to follow the
discusion to this point knows what they are doing. Of course you can always go
to Home Depot and by a gallon of malathion to drink.
Jim
Toxicologist in real life
www.u.arizona.edu/~jliddil
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End of Lambic Digest
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