Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Lambic Digest #1032
Return-Path: postmaster at engr.colostate.edu
Received: from srvr7.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr7.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.69]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA15189 for <spencer at srvr5.engin.umich.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:01:49 -0500 (EST)
Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (0 at redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36])
by srvr7.engin.umich.edu (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP
id DAA00246 for <spencer at engin.umich.edu>; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:01:48 -0500 (EST)
Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with X.500 id DAA02659; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:01:47 -0500 (EST)
Received: from longs.engr.colostate.edu by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with SMTP id DAA02655; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 03:01:46 -0500 (EST)
Received: (daemon at localhost) by longs.engr.colostate.edu (8.6.12/8.6.5a (LANCE Revision: 1.3)) id AAA13506 for reallambic at longs.engr.colostate.edu; Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:30:07 -0700
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 00:30:07 -0700
Message-Id: <199702130730.AAA13506 at longs.engr.colostate.edu>
From: lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Reply-to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here)
Errors-to: lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #1032 (February 13, 1997)
Lambic Digest #1032 Thu 13 February 1997
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Stille Nacht and casks (Francois Espourteille)
Bacterial growth in wort (Clostridium) (George De Piro)
Re: Lambic Digest #1031 (February 12, 1997) (Thomas Wolak)
tripel yeast choice (Martin Wilde)
Re: Stille Nacht and Barrel rinsing (Mark Gryska)
Re: tripel yeast (Conn Copas)
Send article submissions only to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu
Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
All commercially related announcements should be sent to lambic-request
for approval prior to posting. Unapproved commercial announcements
are prohibited.
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at engr.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at engr.colostate.edu).
A new FAQ is under construction at:
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/lambic/lambic.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 08:26:54 -0500
From: fespourteille at mmt.com (Francois Espourteille)
Subject: Stille Nacht and casks
Aaron Corday asks about Still(e) Nacht:
The beer is made by the Mad Brewers (De Dolle Brouwer
(sp?)) from Belgium, and the location of the brewery
escapes me. Three brothers and their mother (the Herteleer
familly (sp)) bought and restarted a dying brewery; they
were homebrewers and had unrelated careers (one was an
architect I believe) and decided to brew commercially.
Most (all?) of their beers are category S (special).
Stille Nacht is their holiday beer and as you noticed is a
spiced beer (coriander, maybe sweet orange peel, among
other). They used Brett also, I think. Great stuff. It's
good when young, and if you have the patience to age it
it's even better. My X-mass '95 stock is really getting
good; the sweetness drops a bit and spices are better
blended. If you like that beer, then try the rest of their
production, if available (Bos Keun, an Easter beer, also
spiced; Arabier, more of a summery brew, bitter and hoppy;
Oeral (or Oerbier), a lighter version of Arabier; there
are a couple of others, but I haven't seen them this side
of the Atlantic yet and they only brew them once in a great
while. An excellent product line.
On a different topic, Michael Cullen asks:
>My question is what about he rest of us who are not
>fortunate to have barrels and are using HDPE or glass?
>Should we just rack onto the year old sludge? siphon off a
>portion of it and use the rest?
You probably could, but that would add a lot of unwanted
flavors over time. The other solution is to replace oak
barrels by oak chips. After a year in the carboy (with
chips), rack the pLambic, remove the chips and rince them in
some sort of container with warm/hot water, them put them in
a clean carboy and rack your next batch of pLambic on top.
You will get most of the advantages of the wood without some
of the hassle (drying casks, leaks, ...). The bugs will
colonize the chips just as they would the walls of a barrel.
You could use one or two cups of chips. Keep in mind that
they will contribute woodiness to the beer for the first
couple of years, just as a barrel would. Too much woodiness
will adversely affect the taste of your pLambic. You may
want to soak the chips in a sterile, tasteless liquid (Bud,
Mich., and others come to mind) for a couple of months to
remove most of the flavor before using them. Good luck.
Cheers,
Francois.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 09:58:28 -0800
From: George_De_Piro at berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Bacterial growth in wort (Clostridium)
Hi all,
Sorry to drag an HBD thread over this way, but it's starting to bug
the heck out of me. Can Clostridium botulinum grow in wort?
If it can, why are spontaneously fermented beers not endangered?
According to that Scientific American article a few months back,
bacteria are the dominant microbe in lambic wort for the beginning of
the ferment, being replaced by yeasts after they die off.
If Clostridium could survive in wort, then why isn't it a concern
early in lambic fermentation?
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:56:26 -0500
From: Thomas Wolak <tjwo at lubrizol.com>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #1031 (February 12, 1997)
> Date: Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:35:58 -0600
> From: "Babinec, Tony" <tony at spss.com>
> Subject: tripel yeast
>
>> Dave Sapsis loves Westmalle triple and asks about yeast.
> Anyone out there brew a good triple using 3787 or
> anything else?
Over the holidays, we had a friend bring us back a couple of bottles of
Westmalle Tripel from Belgium. After drinking a few, we designed a brew
that we thought would get us close to the Westmalle target. We know that
this particular beer is bottle conditioned, so we started up a yeast
starter from the sediment.
Our SG was 1.094 using Pils as our base malt with 20% wheat (we used a
little wheat because we couldn't explain the whispy, lacy head any other
way). Also used was 1 lb of Belgian candy sugar and noble hops (20-25
IBUs). We also detected a little coriander so we threw in about 1 oz.
The primary fermentation was done at 66C and lasted 12 days. We
fermented an additional 7 days in the secondary. I must say the
Westmalle yeast is low flocculating. Anyhow, our final gravity was 1.022
and while not a duplicate of the Westmalle Tripel, it was very clean and
definately had the Westmalle flavor profiles. Very gratifying.
Happy brewing!
- ---Tom Wolak
Mentor, OH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 97 14:02:00 PST
From: Martin Wilde <Martin_Wilde at ccm.jf.intel.com>
Subject: tripel yeast choice
Text item: Text Item
I have used the Wyeast 3787 yeast in a tripel before and had good results. This
yeast is very aggressive and you have to watch it. For a 5 gallon batch of 1082
tripel I used the slurry from a 3 gallon batch of 1050 beer. The yeast took off
like gang busters and it must of blown off a gallon. The ferment temperature
hit 80F. Others have had the same experience. The beer fermented down to
1012. My mash temperature was too low at 148F. I would suggest 154-158 with
this yeast. The reason for such a low mash temperature was that I was tired of
having tripels not ferment out and decided to experiment...
The beer was initially estery - but that faded quickly over time, which matches
the Westmalle profile.
I have used the Wyeast 3944, but did not like the breadiness (IMHO) it produces
- others may disagree...
Good Luck!
Martin Wilde
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 1997 17:21:30 -0500
From: Mark Gryska <mgryska at aai.com>
Subject: Re: Stille Nacht and Barrel rinsing
Aaron Corday asks about Stille Nacht from De Dolle Brouwers
> Can somebody give me information on this belgian beer. It reminded
> me of a geuze mixed with rodenbach. Sour. Wonderfull taste.
The reason this beer may remind you of Rodenbach is because the use
the same yeast. There are no oak barrels here but they do have square
copper fermenters similar to the old fermenters at Rodenbach. I do not
know what composition the grist has but they do use candy sugar in this
beer. All of the beers from this brewery are wonderful.
With regard to barrel rinsing... While at Cantillion I noticed that not
only do they rinse the barrel but they do so using low pressure steam! They
also burn sulfur candles in the barrel before filling them with a new wort.
- mg
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 10:28:36 +1030 (CST)
From: Conn Copas <conn.copas at dsto.defence.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: tripel yeast
Tony Babinec writes about tripels:
"You might use enough
pilsner malt to get you 62 - 65 points of gravity, and rely
on sugar for the rest... Don't overdo the sugar,
as the beer might be unbalanced towards alcohol hotness
if the gravity is too high."
Westmalle tripel may be promoted as a strong blonde ale possessing a
deceptively low fermentation by-product character, but I tend to regard
Duvel as the yardstick in this area. I know, its not the same as it used to
be, but the fact remains that most of its imitators still don't get there. In
my never-ceasing quest to get there, I have developed a couple of principles:
(a) use glucose in preference to sucrose (b) add it a couple of days into the
ferment (could be superstition here, but I am trying to reduce brew gravity
during the yeast growth phase) (c) avoid the temptation to use maize (the
extra sweetness is generally not appropriate, and compounds the alcoholic
sensation) (d) be extremely serious about yeast selection and fermentation
conditions/procedures. No extraordinary advice to offer here, except to say
that there is something slightly weird lurking in the background of Duvel,
which none of its imitators seem to achieve. Not really relevant to cloning
Westmalle, of course.
PS: why are we talking about this on LD?
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
-------
