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Lambic Digest #1048
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Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 00:30:08 -0700
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Subject: Lambic Digest #1048 (March 22, 1997)
Lambic Digest #1048 Sat 22 March 1997
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Hannsen's & Oerbier (P. Edwards)
Bottle culturing (Francois Espourteille)
pedio's and culturing (Eric Urquhart)
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Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 07:08:02 -0500
From: pedwards at nospiquest.net (P. Edwards)
Subject: Hannsen's & Oerbier
Martin Wilde wrote:
>In the last issue of BarleyCorn is saw a notice from I believe B. United that
>there is 75 cases of Hansons Kriek now available as well as kegs of Oerbier and
>Ghent Tripel.
>Could this be? Can we directly order from B. United?
Wasn't B.United the same company that "prematurely" announced that it would
be importing Cantillon, and then it turned out somebody else had the deal?
Just a data point, I visited both Hanssen's and De Dolle Brouwer in 1995.
If what you say is true, B.United must be doing the labelling for Hannsen's
or thing have changed radically, because Jean Hanssen was still just using
red (for kriek) or white (for gueze) whitewash on corked (but not capped)
bottles when I visted with him.
Also, at De Dolle Brower in 1995, I saw no evidence of any kegs or kegging
equipment. Oerbier, as with all the other beers Kris Herteleer makes,
spend something like 6 weeks in a temperature-controlled room for bottle
conditioning before the beer is released (much like what Orval does).
Now, on the other hand, I know that Vanberg & Dewulf import Boon Kriek in a
"keg" (some sort of disposable thing), and I heard that from Wendy
Littlefield last fall when she was at a distributor for a tasting.
Unfortunately, Vanberg & Dewulf and this particular distributor have
severed ties for some reason. (Might be because the local dist. was also
the Miller/Coors/Sam Adams outlet, and didn't give a crap about quality
beer anymore, but I'm only speculating). I'm hoping somebody else in
Indiana picks up the V&D line.
As for ordering directly from an importer, that would be nice, but I would
hazard a guess that your state laws would not allow that. But, a friendly
local distibutor & retailer might help you out.
- --Paul
(To send private e-mail, remove the "nosp" from the return address)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 22:58:55 -0500
From: fespourteille at mmt.com (Francois Espourteille)
Subject: Bottle culturing
Jeremy wrote:
>I have recently plated out the dregs of a '94 Cuve
>Rene, '96 Cantillon Gueuze, and '96 Cantillon Rose de
>Gambrinus. The CR was dead, but both Cantillons have
>lots of stuff alive, mostly cycloheximide resistant.
>The RdG also has the fastest growing ugly green mold
>I've ever seen. (The mold is cycloheximide
>sensitive.)
For those of us that haven't reviewed our college microbiology (1982
or 83?)notes recently, what does the resistance/sensitivity to
cycloheximide mean? Can you determine (very generally) what some of
the bugs are in your cultures? I have recently cultured Cantillion
dregs along with Oud Beersel dregs with good results. The microflora
cultures smelled so good I was tempted to drink some, but it would
have been like killing the goose that lays the plambic. So I
refrained. I would be interested in knowing more about the specific
composition of the Cantillion dregs (i.e. what is alive after 1 or 2
years that will actually start up again). I somewhat assume that the
early inhabitants of the wort (enterobacteriacea and the like) do not
survive in any significant amounts in an alcoholic solution. But what
is really left, since that is what I use to make my plambics?
Cheers,
Francois.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 10:53:08 -0700
From: eurquhar at sfu.ca (Eric Urquhart)
Subject: pedio's and culturing
In reply to Jeremy's question about pedio's selection does require some
chemical selection be used. The oxyrase sounds like a good idea and MRS is
quite good for growing all lacto's. The lactic bacteria don't like oxygen
and are usually stimulated by CO2. To grow lacto's the best place to grow
them is in a rapidly fermenting malt solution ( hint think beer). Wort has
worked better for me than extracts for what it is worth.
I didn't like the idea of adding Tween ( a strong surfactant) used in MRS
as a fatty acid source to my beer so have used this trick to grow lacto's
for pitching. You could take a portion of the dregs and pitch it into a
just starting to ferment culture and keep it very warm 30C or better for a
couple of weeks. Then get rid of the yeast with cycloheximide ( up to 100
mg/L) which won't kill the pedio or other lactic bacteria. You may also
have brettanomyces growing in your culture as well but slimy bacteria
colonies are easy to spot after diluting or restreaking to reduce the
number of Brett. colonies. If you need more info let me know.
Eric Urquhart, Centre for Pest Management,
Dept. of Biological Sciences, Simon Fraser University,
Burnaby, B.C. V5A 1S6
lab phone #: (604) 291-3090 fax # : (604) 291-3496
e-mail: eurquhar at sfu.ca
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End of Lambic Digest
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