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Subject: Lambic Digest #902 (July 23, 1996)
Lambic Digest #902 Tue 23 July 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: lactocapsules (Scott Bickham)
Articles, esters (Jim Liddil)
lactic bacteria (Jim Liddil)
Washing Soda? (Ted_Manahan)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 09:28:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: lactocapsules
Andrew writes:
> ...
> The idea here is to not have the Sacch and Lacto strains competing for the
> glucose and maltose, so they will each be able to do their respective jobs
> unincumbered.
One thing to keep in mind is that the lactobacillus will thrive in the
presence of CO2, so you might actually get more sourness, or at least
it will develop more rapidly if you pitch it in conjunction with the
saccharomyces. Boiling will kill the bacteria, but there will also
be some oxidation. I haven't tried this myself, but I have tasted
some low-alcohol homebrew which was produced by evaporating the EtOH
while simmering, and there was a substantial stale flavor from the
aldehydes. If your lactobacillus is homofermentative and you don't
pitch anything else, then presumably there won't be many alcohols to
oxidize. As a test, you might try boiling a pint or so and comparing
the flavor to an unboiled sample.
Scott
- --
========================================================================
Naval Research Laboratory, Code 6691 E-mail: bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil
Complex Systems Theory Branch Home or BJCP: 7507 Swan Point Way
Washington, D.C 20375 Columbia, MD 21045
(202) 404-8632 FAX: (202) 404-7546 (410) 290-7721
=========================================================================
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Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 8:06:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Articles, esters
Francois asks:
>
> I am new to this digest and I noticed references to literature that I
> am not familiar with. Does anyone have a list of relevant Lambic
> articles that could be posted, other than the traditional books
> available to homebrewers and the literature cited in J.X Guinard's
> book? Or perhaps scientific publications available in the U.S.
> dealing with the complex world of Lambic production or specific
> aspects of it? Any help appreciated.
There is an article with a pretty complete list of lambic related literature at
: http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/LmbicJL0696.html
If you want other references in french or flemish I can point you in the right
direction.
Steve Stroud asked about esters etc. I have not seen any mention of
experiments using isotopes in any of the stuff from Leuven. All the
experiments were done using whole cells or isolated cellular enzymes. They use
gc to then identify all the starting and ending products quite often. There is
one dissertation describing the esterase activity of the brett. There are a
number of other intersting looking papers but they are in flemish or french. I
unfortunately do not speak much less read these languages. There have been
isotope experiments done in wine yeast though. I'll have to dig that stuff up.
Rick ask:
> First, to follow up on the discussion of Wyeast Lambic Blend, does anyone
> know if they are still producing their Brett Brux culture? Although I
> would always add that culture in addition to lots of different bottle
> dregs, I thought their culture was actually more worthwhile for ales
> other than lambics and would be sorry to see it go.
What they make now is labeled as containing a blend including lactic bacteria.
You can buy brettanomyces alone from a number of sources. See web article
listed above for a list of venders. I don't know why they changed the label
and the ingredients? Also the saccharomyces in the lambic blend has been
isolated by at least one indiviudal.
>
> Second, I know that sacchromyces do not metabolize lactose, but what
> about brett strains? Are pedio able to metabolize it?
Brettanomyces do not assimilATE lactose. Neither do pedio.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 9:00:48 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: lactic bacteria
Andrew says:
> In Dr. Brian Nummer's Head Start Brewing Cultures catalog, he makes mention of
> the fact that Brettanomyces strains and Pediococcus ferment, glucose, maltose,
> and dextrins.
I do not think it is a "fact" that pediococcus can ferment dextrins. Some
lactobaccilus strains do secrete dextrinases that can break them down into
fermentable sugars. Pediococcus to my knowledge does not have that ability.
I'll have to check a Bergeys wrt this.
> My questions regards the boiling of a wort post-fermentation. What are the
> effects of this boiling? Will there still be maltose left for the Saccharomyces
> to ferment? Has anybody successfully tried this method?
If you use pediococcus or lactobaccilus then there will not be a great deal
of maltose left, but this is dependent on how long you let it go. There is
scientific data to suggest that once you have reached the desired lactic acid
level then all you need to do is add the saccharomyces and the further increase
in lactic acid will be largely inhibited. Then you do not need to boil. The
secret to all the great beers such as lambic and Rodenbach is a properly
infected brewery. It is that simple. This is aided by the use of a porous
fermenter (i.e. wood). Wood is all natural and it can't cut your had off if
you break it.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 10:44:38 -0700
From: Ted_Manahan <tedm at hpcvn2ax.cv.hp.com>
Subject: Washing Soda?
I read in the Lambic Digest that to prepare your new oak barrel, you
should fill it with a solution of washing soda and water. This will
strip the oak flavor from your barrel.
However, I haven't been able to figure out where to buy washing soda!
Does anybody have any idea where this stuff can be found?
e-mail answers prefered, as I suppose this is not of general interest.
Thanks for your help,
Ted Manahan
tedm at cv.hp.com
541/715-2856
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End of Lambic Digest
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