Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Lambic Digest #0954
Return-Path: postmaster at engr.colostate.edu
Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA29746 for <spencer at srvr5.engin.umich.edu>; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:07:53 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA08587 for <spencer at engin.umich.edu>; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:07:51 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with X.500 id DAA12432; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:07:50 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from longs.lance.colostate.edu by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with SMTP id DAA12422; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 03:07:49 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (daemon at localhost) by longs.lance.colostate.edu (8.6.12/8.6.5a (LANCE Revision: 1.3)) id AAA06286 for reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu; Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:30:07 -0600
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 1996 00:30:07 -0600
Message-Id: <199610030630.AAA06286 at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
From: lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Reply-to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here)
Errors-to: lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #954 (October 03, 1996)
Lambic Digest #954 Thu 03 October 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
RE: Lambic Digest #952 (October 01, 1996) (trvl2u)
Lambic Digest #952 (October 01, 1996)
Re: Lambic Digest #951 (September 30, 1996) (Allison Hemming)
Whatcha Makin'? Another pLambic? (Russell Mast)
Re: Cranberries (Scott Bickham)
pseudo-science (Jim Liddil)
Re: Culturing Multiple yeast strains (Richard F. Ransom)
RE: Lambic Digest #932 (September 08, 1996) ("T.Matera")
unsubscribe (BGABBOTT)
Send article submissions only to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu
Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at engr.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at engr.colostate.edu).
A new FAQ is under construction at:
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/lambic/lambic.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 1996 21:10:45 -0700
From: trvl2u <trvl2u at ix.netcom.com>
Subject: RE: Lambic Digest #952 (October 01, 1996)
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAFE3.191D2CC0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
- ----------
From: subscription requests only - do not post here[SMTP:lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 1996 11:30 PM
To: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #952 (October 01, 1996)
Lambic Digest #952 Tue 01 October 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Lambic Digest #951 (September 30, 1996) (Allison Hemming)
Whatcha Makin'? Another pLambic? (Russell Mast)
Send article submissions only to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu
Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at engr.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at engr.colostate.edu).
A new FAQ is under construction at:
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/lambic/lambic.html
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 12:35:08 -0400
From: Allison Hemming <ally at flatiron.org>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #951 (September 30, 1996)
Hello everyone. I am running a micro-brew event for charity in the
following cities.
NYC -- Upper West Side
Minneapolis -- Uptown
Chicago -- Lincoln Park
Denver - Lodo
Philly - Center city
Atlanta - Buckhead
Boston - Back Bay
San Fran - The Marina
LA - Santa Monica
If you are interested in receiving info, please e-mail me:
ally at flatiron.org
> Lambic Digest #951 Mon 30 September 1996
>
> Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
> Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
>
> Contents:
> Re: Ambiorix (Conn Copas)
> Re: Brewing a Single (Conn Copas)
>
> Send article submissions only to: lambic at engr.colostate.edu
> Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
> lambic-request at engr.colostate.edu
> Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
> to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
> Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
>
> Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
> netlib at engr.colostate.edu
> Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
> from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
> Start with the help message above then request the index.
> A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
> subject or body of your message (to netlib at engr.colostate.edu).
> A new FAQ is under construction at:
> http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/lambic/lambic.html
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 29 Sep 1996 16:44:09 +0930 (CST)
> From: Conn Copas <Conn.Copas at dsto.defence.GOV.AU>
> Subject: Re: Ambiorix
>
> Ron Raike writes:
>
> >Ambiorix Dubbel from Slaghmuylder Brewery in Nivone 8.0% abv
> >Brewery founded in 1860. Currently produce 6,500 hl per year. Strong
> >double. Great dubbel, some hop in nose, no direct candi or malt flavors,
> >well balanced, real rocky head that just hangs - good lace. another
> >must do
>
> Also one of my favourites in that style. The label says something about not
> being bitter (?) like other dark (?) beers (tentativeness here due my lack of
> Flemish!) I've always wondered whether they were comparing themselves to other
> dubbels, or even to stouts. Personally, I would have been inclined to say that
> Ambiorix had a tad more caramel malt presence than some others. That is, until
> my recent Belgian trip. I dropped into Bieres Artisanales in Brussels and
> noticed that all their Ambiorix was dated to sell by '92. The proprietor
> assured me that the labels were irrelevant and had something to with the
> brewery changing hands or moving, or something like that. Anyway, what I wound
> up with will delight lambic afficionados: a sour dubbel full of horse and goat!
> (It didn't really delight me, because it was over-attenuated and thin and,
> plus, if I wanted Brett, all I had to do was walk into a Delhaize supermarket
> and pull a bottle of Cantillon gueze off the shelf).
>
> Bieres Artisanales has had some good previous reviews, so it is with regret
> that I add a negative one. The Ambiorix incident aroused my suspicions, and
> these were subsequently confirmed when I enquired about good brews for yeast
> foraging. The proprietor pulled some anonymous bottle down and suggested it
> was the best choice. Why? 'Cause it always has a thicker deposit than all the
> others!
>
> And, while I'm feeling negative, I would advise regarding Westmalle dubbel with
> suspicion. Both the bottled and draught brews came across to me like raw,
> naively made kit brews, nothing like what I remembered from 3 years ago. Maybe
> their production has become overstretched? The dubbel that impressed me this
> time was Huyghe's, featuring their marvellous house yeast character in
> conjunction with Muscatel grape-like aromas from the coriander. Note that this
> is the brewery responsible for the kitschy Delerium Tremens, and marketing the
> same beer under several different labels. I can forgive them...
>
> Conn V Copas
> e-mail: Conn.Copas at dsto.defence.gov.au
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 13:51:29 +0930 (CST)
> From: Conn Copas <Conn.Copas at dsto.defence.GOV.AU>
> Subject: Re: Brewing a Single
>
> Steve Troud writes:
>
> "I have tasted both the Witkap pater and La Trappe's Enkel. Both are pale,
> somewhat delicate (well, in a Belgian ale sense) top fermented beers. I found
> both quite aromatic, with lots of yeast derived aromas, perhaps some spicing as
> well. Hopping was low.
>
> As a first guess, I would essentially brew a tripel, but cut all ingredients
> back to give an OG in the 1050 or so range; hopping and spicing should be
> reduced also.
>
> Here is a guess, comments and criticisms welcome:
>
> A 10 gallon batch might look something like:
>
> 14 lb Belgian pilsner malt
> 2 lb corn sugar
> 1.6 oz Saaz leaf hops (alpha ~ 3)
> 1.25 oz EK Goldings (alpha ~4.5)
> 8 grams coriander seed
> 5 grams dried orange peel"
>
> Haven't tried the Witkap pater Tripel, but I'm fairly certain the Witkap pater
> Stimulo uses honey, which might be worth considering. Otherwise, if you want
> a delicate brew, I would second the use of glucose (as opposed to sucrose).
> At the risk of bringing the wrath of Belgo-philes down upon my head, I would
> question the use of orange peel here. Many of the Wallonian brews are way
> over-stated in the spice department IMHO, and that includes favourites like La
> Chouffe. If you are heavy handed with the coriander then it is not a big
> problem, because it will blend in with maturity. The citrus nose, however, just
> stays there forever, and often dominates the yeast as far as I am concerned.
>
> Conn V Copas
> e-mail: Conn.Copas at dsto.defence.gov.au
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Lambic Digest
> ************************
> -------
- ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1996 17:33:30 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Whatcha Makin'? Another pLambic?
Just wanted to emphasize a recent thread that ran through here a couple
weeks back. Designate one set of racking equipment "Lambics only" and
another set as "not for Lambics". Otherwise, you'll find yourself making
a few more lambic-style beers than you might think.
So, is this latest batch a bad pLambic, or a _really_ bad brown ale? You
be the judge....
-R
- ------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
- -------
PLease unsubscribe, thank you....
- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAFE3.191D2CC0
Content-Type: application/ms-tnef
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64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- ------ =_NextPart_000_01BBAFE3.191D2CC0--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 09:59:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: Re: Cranberries
Francois asked:
> BTW, has anyone tried a cranberry pLambic? (assides from a
> questionable product from a local brewer) Cranberries are just about
> to be harvested here in SE Mass. and I am going to try that
> combination. Any tips on lb of berries per gallon of pLambic? I am
> planning to briefly cook the berries since flavor is not really
> expressed in raw cranberries. Any tips appreciated.
I made a nice one last year with 2# cooked cranberries per gallon of
base lambic. Some judges though it was artifically colored, so needless
to say, it looks pretty intense when fermenting.
Scott
- --
========================================================================
Naval Research Laboratory, Code 6691 E-mail: bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil
Complex Systems Theory Branch Home or BJCP: 7507 Swan Point Way
Washington, D.C 20375 Columbia, MD 21045
(202) 404-8632 FAX: (202) 404-7546 (410) 290-7721
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 7:49:52 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: pseudo-science
Anthony Asks:
>
> Is there a standard practice for culturing multiple yeast strains as opposed
> to pure cultures? How can you be sure that the cultured strains are in the
> same proportion as the mother? Will each yeast strain grow to its ideal
> number when pitched? I'm concerned with keeping a rodenbach strain viable,
> which reportedly is made up of 5 different yeasts. Does a mixed culture end
> up even close to where it started as far as proportions? I've seen some of
> these questions posted recently but never read an answer. I'd love some
> input.
Boy you ask alot of questions. :-) It is quit likely that a mixed culture will
not maintain the same proportions of yeast strains over time when cultured out
side the brewery environment. The unique microecology of the brewery has an
effect on how the strains interact and grow. There is more to Rodenbach than
just some mixed strain of yeast. Personally I don't try to continuously
culture anything that looks to be a mix. I either freeze it as is or try to
isolate the individual strains and find which one give me the characteristics
I want. I am not sure what you are asking about wrt style. Are you asking
about all mixed cultures, lambics, Rodenbach?
Francois says:
> While I have not performed a well planned, well run experiment to
> prove or disprove the presence of Lambic organisms on brewing
> equipment that has been properly sanitized, others have.
> Unfortunately, I don't have the reference in front of me, but I
> remember a paper published some time ago (2 to 5 years) where a rubber
> gasket infected with Pediococcus was subjected to 15 to 20 autoclave
> cyles and still harbored live bacteria, capable of reproducing. If
> this isn't a good reason to keep brewing equipment separate, I dont'
> know what is.
This is very difficult for me to believe and I think it is net lore. If the
autoclave is operating properly and the item in question reaches 121 C in
saturated steam then is has been sterilized if these conditons are
maintained for 20 minutes. So I won't even begin to consider this more than
ridiculous until I see the real data. So I see no reason not to brew all beer
with the same equipment. I've done it for years. See "Disinfection,
Sterilization and Preservation" 4th ed. for a complete discussion on how to
properly use an autoclave. I have been overseeing the operation of an
autoclave for a few years. With ever load we use an ampule with bacillus
stearothermophilis and bacillus subtilis globigi and we have never had
organisms survive. Being anal about this kind of stuff is my job. :-)
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 12:14:13 -0600
From: rransom at msu.edu (Richard F. Ransom)
Subject: Re: Culturing Multiple yeast strains
On Tue, 1 Oct 1996 08:18:17 Anthony Accardi <Greenrhino at aol.com> wrote (>):
>Is there a standard practice for culturing multiple yeast strains as
>opposed to pure cultures?
In a nutshell, no. Almost all microbiological techniques are oriented to
separating out and culturing single strains of organisms, not culturing a
mixed crop of yeast and bacteria.
>How can you be sure that the cultured strains are in the
>same proportion as the mother?
You can't. The Belgians do it by opening the windows during a certain time
of the year to inoculate with wild organisms, but it's simply impossible to
get the same proportions of organisms in your beer. You _could_ set up pure
cultures of each of the organisms, grow them up in until they're in log
phase growth in liquid culture, and spike your wort with them at various
times, but even then you'd get variations from batch to batch. And this
isn't the way the Belgians do it...they open the windows, "pitch" the wort,
and then ferment it for a while under conditions that favor Brettanomyces.
After that they cask it and let it sit through near-ambient temps, leading
to bacterial blooms in the summer and a funky series of different yeast and
bacterial fermentations. First the yeast hit it, then a couple bacteria,
then yeast, etc.
>Will each yeast strain grow to its ideal number when pitched?
No.
>I'm concerned with keeping a rodenbach strain viable,
>which reportedly is made up of 5 different yeasts. Does a mixed
>culture end up even close to where it started as far as proportions?
No, and that's part of the problem with working with a mixed culture, and
particularly with culturing from a bottle. Most Belgian beers are fermented
with a mixed culture, and are often pitched with a completely different
yeast for the in-bottle fermentation. The only yeast strain cultured from a
bottle that I ever found to be even vaguely like the yeast used to make the
beer was from a bottle of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
If you are really serious about keeping these strains going I would
recommend either the 1) intensive microbiological technique, which involves
trying to separate and separately propagate each strain, or the 2)
continuous culture method, in which you keep several small batches of wort
perking along with the culture, and use them to inoculate your big batches.
The second is probably the most sensible for the home brewer, but for
pLambics and such it requires you to have your propagation cultures in a
variety of growth states, i.e. you need to have one culture that is at log
growth phase, one that's at stationary phase, and a couple that are in
long-term growth, and then inoculate with a mix of them all. This is
necessary to keep from selecting out one or the other of the organisms in
the culture by propagating under a particular (and selective) set of growth
conditions. For example, if you always propagate your culture until it just
passes out of log growth and then transfer it to a new culture, you will
select for the fast-fermenting/growing yeasts and will lose the high-alcohol
tolerant strains, the flocculating yeasts that are often included to
precipitate the suspended yeast late in culture, and most of the bacteria.
In other words, it's a pain in the ass. I would suggest fermenting with it,
saving an occasional aliquot from the early fermentation and propagating it
fairly often so that you've got a good, viable sample of the early mix, and
then using a mix of this and the late fermentation organisms to start the
next batch. Or just use your current culture and watch it evolve and
develop for your specific conditions, and don't worry about trying to
replicate Rodenbach.
Luck.
Father Barleywine.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Richard F. Ransom (rransom at msu.edu)
D.O.E. Plant Research Laboratory, Michigan State University,
East Lansing, MI 48824-1312 (517) 353-4886
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 14:04:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: "T.Matera" <573125 at xavier.xu.edu>
Subject: RE: Lambic Digest #932 (September 08, 1996)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 17:31:44 -0400
From: BGABBOTT at aol.com
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
-------
