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Lambic Digest #0806
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Subject: Lambic Digest #806 (March 05, 1996)
Lambic Digest #806 Tue 05 March 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
re:Barrels (Jim Liddil)
Lactic culture (Btalk)
bottling Lambic (Btalk)
Re:Falnders Red ("Mark E. Thompson")
- (Chuck R Hanning)
orval saccharomyces (Jeremy Bergsman)
- (Chuck R Hanning)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 9:40:20 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: re:Barrels
> 1. The barrels were discarded because they were producing
> phenolics in the wine. The winemaker said that the
> offending microflora can be killed off with an aggressive
> caustic cleaning but that this would strip the oak tannin
> flavors that they want. Any words of caution about this?
Sounds like the barrels might be infected with bret. :-) Based on the article
on cider and wood (which was mentioned in the current Zymurgy BrewNews) I don't
think caustic cleanign will kill all the "offending" microflora. Use 1/2 ounce
washing soda/gallon water. Let it soak for a day or two. Drain rinse and
add some water with some citric acid to drop the pH to about 3 to neutralize
any remaining washing soda. Who cares if you leach the tannins out. You are
making plambic not chardonay. Also be careful with the washing soda as it is
pretty aggressive on the skin and eyes etc. Then store them full fo water with
200 ppm metabisulfite until you brew.
> 2. These barrels appear to have some kind of sealer on the
> outside surfaces. I know that my old barrel which is full has
> evaporated 6 gallons since inception. Would I assume that
> these "sealed" barrels would not evaporate the contents
> (or at least not as much)? Any thoughts on how this might
> affect a plambic?
FWIW my tiny 10 gallon barrel has only lost a quart or so and I live in
Arizona. The barrel is unsealed. It is sealed with a silicone stopper. Don't
know why you have such evaporation rates.
> 3. I've read in the books available on Lambics that they are
> fermented in the oak barrel. Assuming either a low fill to
> contain foaming, or loss of volumn out the bung due to
> foaming, are they topped up after the beer settles down?
> Any thoughts on a primary ferment in glass and then
> racking into oak?
Look at he pictures in lambic and you see barrels with crust on the top from
primary fermentation. Some of the people who have been there, done it and got
the t-shirt may be able to tell us more. Me, I used a blow off tube because I
did not want a bunch of gunk flowing out of my cask into my chest freezer.
And unless these are tiny barrels you are going to be using alot of carboy
for primaries. :-) I really am against the idea of primaries and racking for
plambic though.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:48:16 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: Lactic culture
I have a Lactic culture that I'd like to use for a Berliner Weisse as well as
a Wit...and hopefully not everything else in my brewery;)
My question is when to use it. In the fermenter? At bottling?
Should I make a typical starter with it? How long can I expect it to take for
the Lactic character to develop? Can I control the level of, uh, Lacticity?
Is my beer ruined?...just kidding.
Any and all comments, suggestions and rude remarks are welcome.
Later,
Bob Talkiewicz, Binghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:47:22 -0500
From: Btalk at aol.com
Subject: bottling Lambic
Yeah, I know that I asked this about 6 months ago, but I want to see what the
response is this time!
A friend brewed a lambic 13 months ago, and fermented it with the Wyeast
Brett combo or whatever it is.
It has been in two fermenters: a 5 gal carboy and a 1 gal jug.
The pellicle in the carboy has disappeared, but remains on the jug portion.
He says it no longer smells like vomit!
His question is: How do you know when to bottle this stuff?
I thought i read somewhere recently that it is time to bottle when the
pellicle forms.
Does this aging in the carboy take the place of time spent in bottles?
Thanks,
Bob Talkiewicz, BInghamton, NY <btalk at aol.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 9:23:21 PST
From: "Mark E. Thompson" <markt at hptal04.cup.hp.com>
Subject: Re:Falnders Red
> Date: Sun, 3 Mar 1996 13:47:12 -0500
> From: WTSteele at aol.com
> Subject: Flanders Red
>
> I just racked my Flanders Red from the cask, I included sour cherrys
> ala,Alaxender Rodenbach. The beer is sour, and complex with notes of oak and
> bret (cask has been used for Lambics in the past). I used a split
> fermantation using Head Start culture #320 Flanders Red (actualy shipped as 2
> cultures AB320 wild yeasts and AB333 L. flanderii).
> After primary both batches were blended into the cask. Small samples were
> taken every few weeks to taste how the beer was progressing. The changes were
> dramitic around the 3rd or 4th month. The level of complexity increased 10
> fold, making this a multidemintial beer. It has now been 14 months since
> brewing this wonderful style, after bottling next weekend I'll set on it for
> 6 monts or so before serving. I recomend the Head Start yeast for those
> wishing to try this style.
>
> Todd Steele
> wtsteele at aol.com
I am very interested in this. I might have missed your first post. What
was the recipie like?
I too have used Head Start cultures and find them very easy to deal with.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark E. Thompson |Internet: markt at cup.hp.com |
| Hewlett-Packard Company |FAX: 408/447-4729 |
| Distributed Computing Program |Tel: 408/447-5185 |
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 96 14:26:25 EDT
From: Chuck R Hanning <Chuck_R_Hanning at sbphrd.com>
Subject: -
subscribe lambic Chuck_R_Hanning at sbphrd.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Mar 1996 12:39:51 -0800
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: orval saccharomyces
A friend and I recently had a very fresh-tasting bottle of
Orval so we threw the dregs into some malt medium. It showed
plenty of activity within two days and brett aroma in a week.
At this point I plated some on two plates, one with 20 ug/mL
cycloheximide. Both grew similar lawns in two days.
At this point I was wondering why there was so much cyc.-
resistant stuff in there. I did a negative control by
plating some 1056 on a cyc. plate--it didn't grow. In
order to get some of the saccharomyces that might be in
there I picked 15 colonies from the non-cyc. plate and
did replica streaks onto cyc.+ and - plates. They all
grew on both plates. Is there any saccharomyces in Orval?
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb at leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
------------------------------
Date: 4 Mar 96 17:04:24 EDT
From: Chuck R Hanning <Chuck_R_Hanning at sbphrd.com>
Subject: -
subscribe lambic(and other belgian styles) Chuck Hanning
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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