Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Lambic Digest #0861
Return-Path: postmaster at lance.colostate.edu
Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA09124 for <spencer at srvr5.engin.umich.edu>; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA10783 for <spencer at engin.umich.edu>; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:14:37 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with X.500 id DAA26983; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:14:36 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from longs.lance.colostate.edu by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with SMTP id DAA26978; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 03:14:34 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (daemon at localhost) by longs.lance.colostate.edu (8.6.12/8.6.5a (LANCE Revision: 1.3)) id AAA09272 for reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 00:30:07 -0600
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 1996 00:30:07 -0600
Message-Id: <199606040630.AAA09272 at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Reply-to: lambic at lance.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here)
Errors-to: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #861 (June 04, 1996)
Lambic Digest #861 Tue 04 June 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Yeast from Bell-vue Kriek (christopher tweedy)
Fermenting with Brettanomyces (John A. DeCarlo)
La Chaouffe Recipes (mstickle)
Who's laughing? I'm driving! (Russell Mast)
cherry, cheri' (DAVE SAPSIS)
spelling of Shaarbeek ?? ("Rodney L. Boleyn")
Send article submissions only to: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 08:34:42 -0400
From: tweedy at mail.med.upenn.edu (christopher tweedy)
Subject: Yeast from Bell-vue Kriek
Is it possible to get yeast from bottles of Bell-vue Kriek? What strain is it?
TIA,
chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 96 07:45:49 -0400
From: jdecarlo at mail04.mitre.org (John A. DeCarlo)
Subject: Fermenting with Brettanomyces
I participated in a *very* interesting class put on by the ATCC--a Yeast
Propagation Workshop. At the end of the workshop, we tasted various beers made
from the same wort, fermented at the same temperature, just using different
yeasts. The most interesting one was fermented with *only* Brettanomyces
(bruxullensis, I believe--misplaced the description they gave us, though I
propagated some onto a slant and brought it home).
It tasted really good, with an intense up-front fruity nose, and lots of Brett.
character in the aroma and flavor. Gutter, horse blanket, old socks, etc.
All it needed to be a very decent p-lambic was some sourness from Pedio or the
like.
Now this was from a wort that was 8 lbs. Pilsener malt, 2 lbs. rice extract, 3
oz. Biscuit. No wheat, malted or unmalted, no hops. No Saccharomyces!!
Very interesting, though I don't think myself knowledgeable enough to come to
any conclusions, except that I may well experiment with some Brett.-only brews.
John DeCarlo, jdecarlo at burp.org
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 96 09:06 EDT
From: mstickle at fast.net
Subject: La Chaouffe Recipes
Has anyone attempted to duplicate La Chaouffe (sp?)? Do any
of the yeast culture suppliers offer the yeast used to ferment
this beer? The second yeast used at bottling, is it rather bland
or does it contribute to the character? Answers to any of these
questions would be greatly appreciated. I think this is one of
the best beer I ever tasted.
Mark Stickler
mstickle at fast.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:15:36 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Who's laughing? I'm driving!
> Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:04:34 -0400
> From: PivoPrince at aol.com
> Subject: A Belgian beer laugh
>
> I'm not quitev sure how to describe this, but for a laugh about Belgian
> Abbey-style beers brewed in Kokimo, Indiana (!) call, toll-free
> 1-800-954-0064. It's an automated message and they're not selling anything,
> but boy is it strange..........
It's Kokomo, three O's. I just called it. It's strange, but they are
selling something, it sounds like. They call themselves a brewpub. I'm
pretty sure Kokomo is about 2 hrs. from Chicago, and I'm pretty sure I'll
get out there before the end of the summer, and I'll definately post my
opinions about the beer, bread, and cheese. (I won't be able to get out
there until late July or later, but I'll probably go unless someone else
does and says it stinks, which seems somewhat unlikely.)
I have driven through Kokomo, and, well, it's pretty much what you'd expect.
(Or at least it was a few years ago...)
-R
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:13:42 -0700
From: DAVE_SAPSIS at fire.ca.gov (DAVE SAPSIS)
Subject: cherry, cheri'
After a two week search since my original post regarding how to source
fruit for krieks, we have seen a surge of posts with little substance,
basically mirroring the paucity of product available to us Norte
Americanos. What I found:
1.
After numerous inquiries to commercial stone fruit tree nurseries for
sour cherry varieties, I can only concur with Jim's assessment of
Montmorency monoculture. This is the only available sour cherry scion
in the nurseries; all questions regarding Schaarbeek were replied with
Sharwhut? Now as it seems there are no particular cultivars going by
this name, it remains to be seen what species/variety(ies) are
actually being used in and around the river Senne.
In Northern California, there are very limited sources of fresh
Montmorecies, and the going rate I found appeared prohibitive ($1 per
pound by the hundred). Incidentally, the ones I sampled were not
particularly sour.
2.
Jim Liddil reports on having used Oregon Fruit Products tar erry
puree, an aseptic, unsweetened product derrived from the eponymous
Montmorency, available in 42 lb. minimum lots. He used 15 pounds in 5
gallons, and was left wanting more assertive flavors. He will be
using this beer in his AHA demonstration, so those partaking can post
their impressions. This stuff is available from OFP at 50 cents a
pound (21 bucks per lot) plus postage, which was going to run about 10
bucks per lot to here in NorCal. They are at PO Box 5283, Salem,
Oregon. 97304-0283. Phone: (503)581-6211.
3. Jim also mentions that native wild cherries might be a good
source. Having done a fair amount of fieldwork in the Sierra on
plants, I am familiar with three species of _Prunus_ that have
(somewhat) edible fruit:
_P. ilicifolia_: Hollyleaf Cherry; drupe 1/2 inch diam., pulp very
thin, sweet when ripe. Native to coast range foothills, Napa Co. to
Baja. Cultivated as a hedge shrub due to its desirable foliage. I've
had these and they are quite strong and moderately sweet when fully
ripe. The is almost *no* pulp on the damn things, though.
_P. emarginata_: Bitter Cherry; drupe 1/3 to 1/2 inch diam. Almost
black when fully mature/ripe. Moist slopes in transition zone, coast
range, So. Cal mountains and Sierra Nevada. Pretty common in the 3-4
K elevation belt of the Yellow pine zone. I've had these, after
remarking how much the local fauna go for them. Mistake! These are
so bitter and astringent as to be completely inedible (to me at
least). Probably perfect for lambics. Dont know how long it would
take to get a sufficient quantity though.
_P. virginiata_: Western Choke Cherry; drupe 1/4 to 1/3 inch diam.
Roughly the same distribution as bitter cherry. Drupe is smaller, but
less bitter, +- sour, flowers approx. 1 month later than the two
previous species (early summer). Edibility increases late in the
season. These are very small sour cherries, that would be a good
candidate for kriek if they were available in quantity. Again, I've
had these, and despite being small and slim picking, are good if you
like really tart things.
The species from which the cultivated sweet cherry is derrived, _P.
avium_ has been bred into innumerable varieties, a number ofd which
are reffered to as bing. There are also the mottled yelow/red cherry
called Ranier, and the "tart" montmorency that was bred for pie fruit.
Interestingly, a number of varieties have been bred for increased
pollination success. Some of these may lend themselves to our current
desires. A grower in the lower Santa Clara Valley uses a variety
called "van" in this regard. It is a moderately tart, somewhat
smaller variety of P. avium. This particular growing region is having
a horrible cherry crop this year due to a particularly warm winter.
Fruit production is very low. However, being a kind sort, he has
agreed to provide me and my fellow coop laambikers a hundred pounds of
these at a most reasonable price (two or three quality cigars). We
plan to add these to a clean barrel, then rack up to fill it (yes,
yes, I know, quite unconventional, but we have other reasons for
racking out of the primary barrel). We have made some rough and
tumble calculations that estimate the volume of 100 lbs. of cherries
to be about 16 gallons. We will rack about 40 gallons on top of them.
This will end up giving a rate of 290 g/L cherry to young lambic.
We are going to recieve these cherries later this week, and I will
post of my initial taste observations. Sure hope it works out.
Good luck to the rest of you, let us know what you find works.
--dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 17:20:03 -0400
From: "Rodney L. Boleyn" <boleyn at scr.siemens.com>
Subject: spelling of Shaarbeek ??
Just looking in my Hammond World Atlas, and found a "Schaerbeek"
just north of Brussels. Is this the same as "Shaarbeek" region
where the cherries come from? Which is the correct spelling?
-Rodney
P.S. What is the -beek ending? Same map shows Molenbeek, Dilbeek,
Wezembeek, Linkebeek, Etterbeek and so on...
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
-------
