Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Lambic Digest #0834
Return-Path: postmaster at lance.colostate.edu
Received: from srvr8.engin.umich.edu (root at srvr8.engin.umich.edu [141.212.2.81]) by srvr5.engin.umich.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA17562 for <spencer at srvr5.engin.umich.edu>; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.36]) by srvr8.engin.umich.edu (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA13896 for <spencer at engin.umich.edu>; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:08:13 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with X.500 id EAA04717; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:08:13 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from longs.lance.colostate.edu by redheat.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.7.5/2.2)
with SMTP id EAA04712; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 04:08:10 -0400 (EDT)
Received: (daemon at localhost) by longs.lance.colostate.edu (8.6.12/8.6.5a (LANCE Revision: 1.3)) id AAA11722 for reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu; Wed, 24 Apr 1996 00:30:09 -0600
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 00:30:09 -0600
Message-Id: <199604240630.AAA11722 at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Reply-to: lambic at lance.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here)
Errors-to: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #834 (April 24, 1996)
Lambic Digest #834 Wed 24 April 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Orval (STROUDS)
Wild Fermentation, US style (Kinney Baughman)
Re: More on Orval (Conn Copas)
Lambic Defense League T-shirts II (Jim Liddil)
Send article submissions only to: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Note that the request address is not an automated server. It forwards
to a real person who may not be able to process the request immediately.
Subscription changes often take 2-5 days, sometimes more.
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 10:58:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: STROUDS at cliffy.polaroid.com
Subject: Re: Orval
Al sez:
>I do believe that Orval tends to dry out very nicely as it ages. Further
>evidence that there is significant fermentation in the bottle is the problem
>(?) of Orval increasing in alcohol while in the bottle. I don't recall
>where I read this, but it is definitely a problem for the brewery. I
>believe that the alcohol level rises from 6-point-something percent to
>over 7% after bottling!
Al, that was in the info that Paul posted:
"The label indicates that the beer's alcohol content is 6.2% by volume
which in accordance with the current regulations covers the full 5.2 to
7.2% range. Six weeks after bottling Orval leaves the storage rooms, where
it is kept at a controlled temperature of 15 deg C, for distribution. At
this stage, the beer has an alcohol content of approximately 6 percent by
volume, but refermentation in the bottle will continue for another 8 or 9
months. The yeasts exhaust the fermentation sugars which are turned into
CO2 and alcohol. Once the fermentation process has finished, the beer will
have reached 7.1 percent."
Sounds like voracious Brett activity to me, but whether it is from very slow
secondary activity or from Brett added at bottling (or both), I do not know.
We may never know. Paul's posting indicates 6 days primary fermentation, then
three weeks "lagering", then six weeks bottle conditioning before release for
distribution. Paul's post indicates that bottle conditioning occurs at 15C
(59F) but says nothing about the 'lagering' temperature. Is it possible that
the secondary is cold enough that there is little yeast activity and that the
Brett doesn't go to work until it is warmed up to 15C?
Al asks:
>Now that we all know how to make Orval, can someone tell me how to enter
>it in a competition? Which category? Which subcategory?
Al, glad you asked! Five New England homebrew competitions that count for the
New England Homebrewer of the Year competition agreed to a standard set of
categories/subcategories for 1995-1996.
(The full list of categories/subcategories is available for perusing on the web
at http://www.rsi.com/wort/style-guide.html#OBA and I encourage any interested
homebrew competitions to use this set instead of the AHA set if they would
like.)
We have two seperate Belgian categories, 'Strong' and 'Other.'
The 'Other Belgian Ale' category includes
the following subcategories:
A. Oud Bruin Ales and Flanders Red Ales
B. Lambic
C. Witbier
D. Saison
E. Belgian pale Ale
F. Specialty
The description of 'Specialty' is as follows:
"A category for the myriad of unusual and distinctive Belgian ales which don't
fit any of the above style descriptions. These beers run the
gamut of colors, flavors, aromas, and alcohol content, and are often fermented
with unusual and distinctive yeasts and ingredients.
Brewer should specify commercial equivalent for entry.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
COMMERCIAL EXAMPLES: ORVAL, BOKRIJKS KRUIKENBIER, KASTEEL BIER, OERBIER"
You might be interested to know that an Orval clone won this category at the
Boston Homebrew Competition back in February.
There are two upcoming competitions that will be using this set of guidelines,
they are the Green Mountain Mashers competition in Burlington, VT on May 11th
and the MALT competition in Portland, ME on June 8th. I am sure that they
would both love to get an entry from you!
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 12:35:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR at conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: Wild Fermentation, US style
Greetings all,
I thought I'd post my latest experiment at "Cottonwood Labs" and invite
some feedback.
Some of you know that the tart, Belgian style ales I've been brewing at
Cottonwood (formerly Tumbleweed) are innoculated with a Pediococcus culture
I discovered in a 5 year old keg of homebrew that was stuck in a dark
corner of my basement. I've never scoped or streaked this critter out so I
have no idea what it really is. All I know is it imparts a crisp tartness
to the beer. Compared to a lambic, it's one dimensional. But it stands
well on its on, just as it is.
It works better with stouts (the base beer for our Black Framboise) than
it does with an amber or a gold for some reason. But it was the amber
that got us a medal at the GABF. If you let it go long enough, it'll get
as tart as you can stand! I always have to blend it with a newer beer to
get the tartness level down to an "accessible" range for the palates of
our customers. I now fully appreciate the art of blending new beers with
old. While we don't do it for exactly the same reasons the Belgians do,
we both are blending in order to create a product that will be accessible
to the "average" palate.
The other day, at the end of a brew, we had about 5 gallons of wort left
over. We decided to put it in a bucket, leave it open, and see what we'd
get. A pellicle started forming in 2 days. It was actively fermenting in
four. I suspect we have plenty of yeast floating in the air at Cottonwood
but I must admit I was surprised it started fermenting *that* quickly.
I know a couple of people in this forum have tried similar experiments. I,
for one, would like to hear how these wild beers developed. I'll be
tasting this batch when we keg and will report back at that time. I'm
hoping to achieve a more complex tartness with this method. How would
some of you describe the beers that were fermented in like manner?
Cheers!
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
baughmankr at conrad.appstate.edu | I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 11:02:28 +0930 (CST)
From: Conn Copas <Conn.Copas at dsto.defence.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: More on Orval
Paul Edwards writes:
"Brett is such a slow working critter, that I believe that it could indeed
be only added in the secondary. I think that the next eight or nine weeks
that the beer spends in the brewery in secondary and in bottle conditioning
at 15 deg C might be insufficient for the brett character to be noticeable.
I believe that it takes a few months at warmer temps for the brett to
predominate, and for the hop character to fade."
Well, I said it once before a long time ago, but here goes again. I have
cultured Orval dregs (from a British import, FWIW) and had an unmistakable
goaty Brett character at the end of the primary. Didn't record whether the
bottle was old or young. On a related note, Warner goes on about L. delbruecki
manifesting itself by the end of the primary in Berliner Weisse breweries.
That's something I haven't been able to achieve yet, and may have something to
do with the development of hop tolerant strains. The theory says bacteria
should work a lot faster than yeasts, no? Another speculation is that there
may be more to the set-up conditions than just temperature; in particular, if
there is some symbiotic relationship between all the various bugs.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 19:10:12 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Lambic Defense League T-shirts II
This is a note to let people know that I have had tha Moen cartoon scanned
(with Alan's permission) and have it at:
http://radon.gas.uug.arizona.edu:80/~jliddil/brewwld3.gif
For all to view so you can see before you buy etc.
The colors and price are still to be decided.
Also Sandra Cockerham <java at dorite> Please contact me with a real e-mail
address as the one listed bounces or does not exist.
Jim
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
-------
