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Lambic Digest #0833
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Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 00:30:08 -0600
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Subject: Lambic Digest #833 (April 23, 1996)
Lambic Digest #833 Tue 23 April 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
More on Orval (P. Edwards)
Orval (Algis R Korzonas)
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 08:01:42 -0500
From: pedwards at iquest.net (P. Edwards)
Subject: More on Orval
Steve Stroud wrote in LD 831
"About a month ago, Paul Edwards led an interesting dicussion on Orval. Paul
indicated that, according to information he received at the brewery, Orval
pitches one yeast strain for the primary (open fermentation in climate
controlled rooms for one week), a blend of "several" strains in the secondary
(closed fermentation in 100 hectoliter tanks for three weeks), and then adds
more of the primary strain at bottling along with liquid candi sugar.
The implication here was that the Brett went into the secondary and that a
strain of S.c. was the primary/bottling strain."
Well, I can only tell y'all what I was told at the brewery. Nothing was
said or implied about the primary strain being Brett or S.c, but based on
my own breweing with brett, what I saw on the TV monitor of the primary
ferm room at Orval, it was a top fermenting S.c yeast
None of the various strains identities were revealed to me. However, they
did verbally tell me and it is backed up the technical data sheet that I
was given that the bottling yeast is the single strain primary yeast.
I'd agree that fresh Orval does taste like an "aromatic, dry hopped Belgian
pale ale" [Steve quoting Pat Baker]. Matter of fact, most all the Orval I
drank in Belgium, including some that was over a year old, stored at 15 deg
C in the Orval marketing director's personal beer fridge, still had that
wonderful hoppy aroma and flavor. Only in really old bottles that I've had
in the US did I find the brett character to be really noticeable.
Brett is such a slow working critter, that I believe that it could indeed
be only added in the secondary. I think that the next eight or nine weeks
that the beer spends in the brewery in secondary and in bottle conditioning
at 15 deg C might be insufficient for the brett character to be noticeable.
I believe that it takes a few months at warmer temps for the brett to
predominate, and for the hop character to fade.
Now, I know that some Belgian brewers are known for their coyness, and
perhaps they even engage in a bit of "disinformation", so I can't be sure I
was being told the truth. But I have not reason to believe otherwise, even
tho it conflicts w/ what MJ has written and what M. Perpete said at SoB.
The pursuit of the the whole story continues...
- --Paul E.
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 96 10:19:49 CDT
From: korz at pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Orval
Todd writes:
>What is the final gravity of the Orval primary? Anybody? I would guess
>1010-1012. Maybe higher, but I can't remember how much sugar they use
>(do they add sugar?). Anyway 1010-1012 is a fairly conservative guess. Add
>priming sugar and a yeast mix. What happens when the Brett drops
>the gravity to say 1004-06? Realistically the Brett could drop it down
>to 1000-02 - I am certain. Now, the Orval bottle is very heavy. Anybody
>ever witnessed an exploding bottle of Orval or a gusher for that matter?
Gushers for sure. When you take a two-year-old Orval and serve it anything
but cold, it creeps out of the bottle.
>Neither is associated with Orval. They seem to have it under control. I
>think that a good Brett secondary attenuates the beer to the point that
>it can be safely bottled and still allow continued fermentation.
I do believe that Orval tends to dry out very nicely as it ages. Further
evidence that there is significant fermentation in the bottle is the problem
(?) of Orval increasing in alcohol while in the bottle. I don't recall
where I read this, but it is definitely a problem for the brewery. I
believe that the alcohol level rises from 6-point-something percent to
over 7% after bottling!
Now that we all know how to make Orval, can someone tell me how to enter
it in a competition? Which category? Which subcategory?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz at pubs.att.com
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End of Lambic Digest
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