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Date: Sat, 15 Jun 1996 00:30:06 -0600
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Subject: Lambic Digest #871 (June 15, 1996)
Lambic Digest #871 Sat 15 June 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Kokomo (Stephen L. Beaumont)
My lack of judging ability (Jim Liddil)
unsubscribe (BRIETZKE)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 13:47:09 -0400
From: beaumont at netcom.ca (Stephen L. Beaumont)
Subject: Kokomo
A few more morsels to add to the delicious story of the Blessed
Sacrament:
I spoke to Bill Owens in Montreal yesterday and he denies all knowledge
of the "800" line. Someone out there is intent on taking this thing as
far as it will go, and they don't seem to mind paying for it!
The BS-Kokomo story also reportedly claimed beer's most famous
personage as its latest victim. Word is that Michael Jackson was
looking into the Trappist brewery's existance and was left a message
saying that he could meet Brother Bernard (or whoever) at a certain
place in Chicago at a given time. Turned out, I hear, that the place
was a strip joint and -- surprise -- Brother Bernard wasn't there.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 11:24:18 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: My lack of judging ability
> Chris asked:
>
> >I was wondering what the shelf life of a package of 3278B is. Any
> >comments? (I mean if it is properly stored).
>
I had a 5 month old package that had only saccharomyces in it. the brett as
dead or missing. And now that the package has lactic bacteria who knows. My
advice is to have your shop order it direct from Wyeast for you and use ASAP.
Then Scott said:
>
> > Some of you may find my judging comments and scores for the AHA conference a
> > bit harsh. In the words of someone who knows alot more about Belgium and
> > Belgian beers than nayone I know "Oh, Screw them". :-) X 10 for the humor
> > impaired. I'm ready to be crucified.
>
> What Jim is referring to is criticism by me and several others when
> we heard that he didn't want to award any medals in the lambic category,
> and then wandered over to the Belgium ale table and said that none
> of them deserved medals either. Yikes!
Let us get the situation straight. It was not that I did not want to give ANY
medals. I simply did not think we should have given a gold. Only a Silver and
bronze. See the AHA rule #7 below. I do not agree with the arguement that
just because a medal was already made that it should be given out. And I still
stand behind my belief that only two medals should be given out. None of the
beers was an outstanding example of the style.
I did not wander over to the Belgian Ale table until after I had been judging
the English pale ales. And I did not say none of them deserved medals. But I
did feel the quality of the entries was not very good. I'll let the people who
judged these beers comment further if they so wish.
>This was at the second round
> of the nationals, and while some dogs get through and some very good
> beers don't, the quality is generally very good. That aside, the
> judges are responsible for ranking the beers in each category, 1-2-3,
> and that's all. While organizers in small competitions often allow
> ribbons not to be awarded to beers that score lower than 25, judges
> are not given that authority to do that at the AHA Nationals, at least
> in the second round. Yes, it's true - we judges are not Gods.
>
>From the AHA rules:
7. At the discretion of Competition organizers and/or judges, awards may not
be given if the quality of an entry is not deemed deserving of an award.
I simply felt and still feel none of the beers deserved a gold medal. This
does not break the rules. It may rub some people the wrong way.
Then Scott makes what I call the leap of faith arguement:
> Another point is that if you make such a motion, you'd better be
> extremely confident about your judging abilities. My hat goes off
> to Jim as a lambic authority and brewer, but those do not guarantee
> that his palate is of the same caliber. In the competition, the winning
> beer was brewed by Ron Raike and was nosed out in the Best of Show
> with a panel that consisting of Dan Hall, Ginger Wotring, Ed Bronson and
> Pete Slosberg. The beer that placed second won Best of Show in the
> Spirit of Belgium, where it was judged by C.R. Saikley, Tom Cannon,
> Don Feinberg, Ed Westemeier and Jay Hersh. By saying that these beers
> are not worth of medals, you are implying that the above judges are
> incompetent.
You are making the assumption that, because x then z. I have not said that any
of these people are incompetent in any way. We all percieve the world in a
different manner. I simply have a different view of what lambic style beers
should be as brewed here in America.
The beer that was judged at SOB is now an older and possibly
quite different beer. I feel that plambics should approach the complexity and
balance of the classic examples. The same holds true to all beer styles. I
admit to having very high standards. Somebody has to have them. If the beers
that win at the Nationals are not the exemplary beers then why put such an
emphasis on it.
> That is a bunch of crap, and at least in my eyes, it
> compromises your reputation as a judge. Those beers may not have as
> much acidity of a Cantillon, the brett nose of Boon Mariage Parfait or
> as much complexity as a Hansens, but they are certainly excellent
> examples of a style we are still discovering as tasters and as brewers.
>
Well in my view if it does nto have the qualities you describe then it does not
deserve a Gold medal at the National Competition. And I do not agree with the
arguement that because "we are still discovering" the style that we should
lower our standards. Then again maybe I am just a terrible judge. I can deal
with it.
> From: Vintage Cellar <vcellar at nrv.net>
> Subject: bottle caps/capper
>
> Does anyone know where to obtain caps and a capper used for Belgian lambic
> bottles?
U-brew in New Jersey. See the thing I posted.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 1996 19:52:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: BRIETZKE at hws.edu
Subject: unsubscribe
unsubscribe
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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