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Lambic Digest #0765
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:30:06 -0700
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Subject: Lambic Digest #765 (January 12, 1996)
Lambic Digest #765 Fri 12 January 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Yeast, bacteria and barrels oh my (Jim Liddil)
Raspberries (Aaron Birenboim)
Re: Butyric Acid (rdevine)
SOB II (Scott Bickham)
Re: Lambic Digest #764 (January 11, 1996) (Munches)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 7:46:15 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Yeast, bacteria and barrels oh my
> A week or so ago, I posted a question about Butyric Acid. During a PBS
> program, I heard a guy say that the fermentation of starch results in the
> production of Butyric Acid. I posted this information in the hopes that
> someone could confirm or deny this. I'm afraid I don't have the books
> to look this up. Could someone who has the right texts please try and
> look this up and post? Thanks
>
> Al.
I'll look but I imagine theri are yeasts that do produce butyric acid. I think
brett does but not in large quantities. I may be wrong.
> I'm interested in hearing of others experiences using
> oak, time frames, and flavor progression.
>
> Norman Dickenson
Leaving it in the cask is what the Belgian do. Your cask is used so the oak
contribution should be less. I say leave it for 2 years.
Russel asks:
>
> I'd like to hear someone comment on this, eventually. My recollection of
> Guinard's book suggests that it contributes very little. Is there a consensus
> on this? Any voice of experience with/without it?
I have a bunch of papers on Kloeckera. It is an acid producer and also
produces a bunch of esters. It is pH and alcohol intolerant so dies of quickly
in lambic. It also likes air.
I don't know where guinard got the info that is secretes proteases.
I never found a reference of for this and standard assays showed no such
activity in the strains I tested. Probably contributes to overall complexity
and helps reduce the simple sugar content of the wort qucikly along with
enterics and this helps slow the fermentation process down.
>
> > Don't use nutrients and don't ever rack it off the dead yeast and such.
>
> How bad is it to rack off the dead yeast? I did that with a batch, albeit
> later than I usually do with our regular beer. I did take the dregs and
> bottle them (without washing), in hopes of possibly reusing the culture.
> Should I dump the slurry back in?
This is your brain: O This is your brain on drugs: . :-) One more time kids.
Both pediococcus and brettanomyces are organsims that require a wide variety of
nutrients to grow. Particularly pedio. B vitamins have been shown to be
essential. In fermenters lactic bacteria are usally found grwoing in the yeast
layer at the bottom of the tank. As the yeast autolyze they secrete their
contents which include amino acids and vitamins. The sludge at the bottom of
the fermenter in plmaibc acts a a store house of nutrients that are released
overtime as the pedio and brett metabolize the stuff left in the wort. This
sludge also helps provide an anaerobic environment for the bacteria. Use one
fermenter from the beginning and forget about it for two years.
> I used Boon Gueze. I got -something- to grow from the dregs. Time will tell
> what it may be. Tasting it after 6 months it was quite yummy, but only a hint
> of Brett and just starting to sour. I understand that's a bit early though.
Boon does have a lactic bacteria, but I have had problems getting anything else
to grow from recent bottles.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 09:47:58 MST
From: birenboi at ataway.aptec.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Raspberries
Does anybody have any suggestions about where I might obtain about
25 lbs of frozen raspberries? My lambic os about 15 months old,
and I ment to get fruit this fall, but I got too busy with a move.
I am glad to see that some people are saying that I can still add fruit after
1-2 years on oak.
Aaron Birenboim | aaron at ataway.aptec.com | Personal :
ATA | http://www.aptec.com/aaron/ | mole at netcom.com
1900 Randolph Rd. SE | (505) 767-1221 (Desk/Lab) |
ABQ, NM 87106 | (505) 247-8371 FAX 768-1379 |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 10:48:38 TZ
From: rdevine at microsoft.com
Subject: Re: Butyric Acid
Al K asks:
> A week or so ago, I posted a question about Butyric Acid. During a PBS
> program, I heard a guy say that the fermentation of starch results in the
> production of Butyric Acid. I posted this information in the hopes that
> someone could confirm or deny this. I'm afraid I don't have the books
> to look this up. Could someone who has the right texts please try and
> look this up and post? Thanks.
Butyric acid is a short fatty acid that has a disagreeable odor (like
smelly feet
or rancid oil and I've even heard it described as a locker-room smell).
It comes from an aldehyde and butyric acid is found in many fats.
But I don't know how much is produced by the fermentation of starches
but since fats are present in the original plant matter, perhaps that
is the link.
BTW, starch fermentation does yield pyruvic acid.
Bob "not a chemist" Devine
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 14:50:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott Bickham <bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil>
Subject: SOB II
There have been a few important changes for the competition. Due to
problems in finding a separate tasting venue (or actually, complying
with the ATF by getting a one-day liquor license, paying corking fees
at hotels, etc.), the tasting will be held on the same day as
the competition. For those of you planning to make a weekend of it,
several locals are planning to have dinner at Belgique Gourmand
on Friday night, and you are welcome to join us. This will be
informal, but we can work out carpool arrangements from Alexandria
or Arlington. Please drop me a note if you are interested so that
I can give you the reservation number and work out logistics. They
have a limited seating capacity, so the sooner the better. For those
unfamiliar with Belgique Gourmande, it is a moderately priced restaurant
($10-15 for most entrees) with an extensive Belgian beer selection.
The mussels and desserts are both excellent.
Here is the tentative schedule:
date: Saturday, February 10:
place: Blue-n-Gold Brewing Company, 3100 Clarendon, Arlington, VA
8:30-9 judges and stewards arrive, coffee and bagels
9 a.m. sharp judging begins
12-1 buffet lunch
1-2 second round judging, if necessary
2 best of show judging
5-7 Belgian beer tasting, $10 lets you sample over 20
different commercial beers, leftover homebrews will
be available. Space is limited and reservations must
be made with me or Tom Cannon in advance.
7-? Banquet. $50 gets you a 5-7 course meal with several
commercial beers and a guest speaker. This must be
prepaid, either by check or by giving your credit card
number to Blue-n-Gold, and space again is limited!
If you plan to judge, steward and/or attend any of these events, get
in touch with me if you have not already sent your registration form.
I am also looking into getting a hospitality suite at the Quality
Inn, since I certainly don't plan on driving home after the banquet.
Thanks, Scott
- --
====================================================================
E-Mail: bickham at dave.nrl.navy.mil FAX:(202) 404-7546
Office: Naval Research Laboratories Home and BJCP:
Code 6691, Complex Systems 7507 Swan Point Way
Washington, D.C 20375 Columbia, MD 21045
(202) 404-8632 (410) 290-7721
====================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 18:20:39 -0500
From: Munches at aol.com
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #764 (January 11, 1996)
In response to Nikolaus Matheis' posting about using plastic instead of glass
to get a pellicule to form... Is this true? Mine is in glass and, guess what,
no pellicule yet (only a few months). If this is true, why? -Jim Brennan
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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