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Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 00:30:09 -0700
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Subject: Lambic Digest #730 (November 17, 1995)
Lambic Digest #730 Fri 17 November 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
growing lambic beasties (Eric James Urquhart)
growing lambik cultures (Dan McConnell)
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:47:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric James Urquhart <eurquhar at sfu.ca>
Subject: growing lambic beasties
I have grown some of each of the beasties you ask about.
Nothing unusual is needed to grow starters except time. They will
need more time than any yeast culture does. All will grow well in
rich wort preferably real wort of 1.030 as it will likley be more
complete than one made from DME. However, a mixture of dried malt
extract at 1.020 works fine. Brettanomyces will grow fine but expect
2 weeks at least for a small starter 150 ml to start fermenting in a
warm (upper 20 deg C) place. Lactic bacteria seem to grow better in
the presence of actively fermenting yeast probably as they prefer
anaerobic (no oxygen) conditions and dissolved carbon dioxide
promotes growth. Lactic bacteria include Pediococcus and all the
lactobacillus. Scott Bickham suggested growing yeast and bacteria
together as it gave much better results than separately. Well it
works great. I have grown Brettanomyces and Pediococcus together and
the DME sediment was moving as thickened mass within a week due to
the thickening caused by the Pediococcus.
eric eurquhar at sfu.ca
Centre for Pest Management, Dept of Biological Sciences
Simon Fraser University, Burnaby, B.C. Canada
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Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 22:53:05 -0500
From: danmcc at umich.edu (Dan McConnell)
Subject: growing lambik cultures
From: EMoreland at eworld.com
>I recently bought some lambic strains (Brett. Lamb. & Brux., Kolecra A.,
>Lacto. & Pedio.) from the Yeast Culture Kit Company and have been trying to
>culture them individually without success. My question, is there any
>literature available (besides the Lambic book, which I have) that will tell
>me, in detail, about: the life cycles, lag times, best culturing and stepping
>up methods, etc. of these strains? Thanks. Eric Moreland
>(EMoreland at eWorld.com)
I'll dig up some references when I get the time and send them to you. You
may find the Vertercht articles interesting and helpful. They are mostly
dealing with the identification of the strains, but reading them may spark
an idea or two.
The Kloeckera yeasts are relatively easy to grow and should grow as well as
Saccharomyces on most media and can be stepped up similarly in wort.
Brett yeasts survive the longest on buffered media (either a stock media to
which Calcium carbonate had been added or MRS agar), and should be
subcultured frequently. If not they will die. They do tend to expire when
most inconvenient. I find that they are best stored frozen, the slants or
plates are too unreliable, but the best way to distribute them.
The Pedio and Lacto bacteria will grow slow on MRS agar even at 25-30C,
although they seem to do much better in MRS broth.
Unfortunately there is no comprehensive source that I am aware of that
covers all of the questions you asked. The Vertercht articles are one of
the better sources if you can get your hands on copies.
My method for using these species is to innoculate them in 2.5 ml of MRS
Broth and incubate at 28C for 48 hrs, at which time they should have grown
to confluence. This gets boosted to 25 mL at which point they can be
pitched into the beer*. For Lacto, I would boost again with unhopped wort
to give about 200 mL pitching volume.
Excuse me while I pick your brain. What are you getting on the lacto and
pedio plates? Anything? Do control plates show no growth for two weeks?
Are you incubating warm enough (>25C) and long enough? These guys may need
up to a week on an MRS plate. The plate should be sealed to prevent the
media from drying. Did you use dH2O to make the MRS? You said that you
bought some MRS agar, have you tried broth? Growth is easier to see.
Finally, it is possible that the cultures that you received were damaged in
transit. If you even remotely suspect that this is the case you should
request a replacement.
*This is only one method, others prefer to pitch larger cultures. In my
last pLambik I didn't pitch any cultures at all and relied on the barrel
flora to do the trick. Gotta do barrel taste that one one of these
days......
DanMcC
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End of Lambic Digest
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