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Lambic Digest #0763
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:30:08 -0700
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Subject: Lambic Digest #763 (January 10, 1996)
Lambic Digest #763 Wed 10 January 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Lambic Questions etc. (Jim Liddil)
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Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 9:50:46 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Lambic Questions etc.
Wyatt had a few questions. Thanks for the barrel info. If you want I can
uuencode the graphic files and e-mail them to you. Let me know. The LD is
indeed a bit more civil than than some of the other digests. Let us hope Jack
doesnt' ever start making plambic. :-) Also private e-amil is nice but it does
nothing to help the collective wisdom.
> Hello All,
>
> I just recently subscribed to the lambic digest and wanted to
> introduce myself as well as ask a few questions. I have been brewing
> for about 15 years. I have been thinking about trying to brewing
> lambics for some time but have hesitated because of the risk of some
> nasty beasts ruining the rest of my brews. I have read most of the
> past lambic digests and the FAQ on lambics as well as the styles book
> by Guinard (sp?). I have a lot of questions but some of them are
> probably going to be answered only by experience
Cross contamination is no more of a problem with plamibc making than with other
brewing. Keep the equipment clean etc.
>
> First Question:
>
> I know that the Pedio and Brett need to have dextrins and starches to
> sustain them through the long aging period. I also understand that the
> dead yeast act as nutrients. In looking at the past digests it seems that
> at least part of the trub also helps. Normally I would think this was
> stupid question but with lambics it seems a lot of commonly accepted
> brewing practices are inappropriate. Do you want to use a wort chiller to
> precipitate cold break? Do you want to keep the hot break proteins out of
> the fermenter or are these used as well. I assume that the cold break is
> siphoned into the cask to provide nutrition for the microbes during aging.
> Is this correct? A lot of the things I have been reading have been
> contradictory but nothing is said about this.
Indeed most common brewing practices are not used in "tradtional" lambic
breweries. We are not in Belgium at any rate. Lamibc brewers use cool ships.
the morning after cooling overnight the owrt is pumped into casks. My
understanding is they have a floating pickup that draws the clear wort off the
settled trub. Mike? Anyway use a wort chiller or cool overnight covered or
uncovered if you feel brave and like to experiment. Try to leave the break
behind.
>
> Second Question Group:
>
> I have never used casks before and I am a little nervous about
> contamination. I have found 4 used (for chardonay) 30 gal reconditioned
> (but not shaved) French oak casks. As I don't have equipment quite that
> large I plan to run two batches. I don't have a lot of room so I plan to
> keep it in the spare room I use as a "cellar". It seems to stay cool most
> of the year except in the summer. I might buy some kind of refrigeration
> device when and if it becomes necessary. I am pretty anal about
> sanitation but I can't do anything like autoclave my fermenter. I usually
> sterilize my starters in a pressure cooker anyway but that is out of the
> question for a batch of real brew. I plan to keep separate equipment for
> items that are likely to harbor contamination such as rubber and plastic
> items, everything but glass and metal.
If you have room for that many big casks go for it. Any room is OK. Remember
the cask may weep a little and spew foam so put them in or on something to
catch any seepage etc. Don't worry about temperature. The belgian don't but
it is always pretty cool there. And the large cask they use have a large
thermal mass. Depending on the area of Calfornia you live in temp may or may
not be a problem especially relative to Arizona. I use all the same equipment
for all my beer and I don't have problems or maybe I do and can't tell. :-)
>
> 1. How isolated does this area need to be from my brewing area?
I doesn't if you are careful.
>
> 2. I assume the max. temp wanted is 75 degrees F. Is this correct?
> To develop the complexity I understand that it is important to vary
> the temp to enhance the development of the different organisms.
> Has anybody done any research on the effect of various yearly
> temperature curves (I plan to monitor and experiment anyway but
> with a feedback loop the length of lambic aging I definitely would
> appreciate a head start)?
Unless you buy a cold room forget about temperature IMHO.
>
> 3. What should the humidity of the area be.
Your cask will have to be topped up every so often. The lower the humidity the
more evaporation you will experience. High humidity enocurages mold growth on
the cask outside surface.
>
> 4. Any special cask conditioning hints? I just bought the Pale Ale
> styles book and it has a section on cask care (I haven't read it
> yet) but I am interested in optimizing for lambic (that's the only
> reason I bought the casks).
Clean with soda ash as recommended in guinard. Then neutralize wqith citric
acid. Fill with water to make sure there are no major leaks and to swell the
cask. Nothing like finding a leak after filling it with wort.
>
> Third Question Group:
>
> This turbid mash thing is confusing me. I have seen a few
> different techniques and have read about the milky white appearance
> of the wort in this digest. I would be interested in hearing about
> your favorite mashing schedule, techniques)and especially in the
> reasons why you use it. The concept of a turbid mash is pretty
> foreign to me at this point and probably will be until I try it.
> Makes me a little nervous.
Use raw wheat and a step mash. Turbid mashing is a hassle and doesn't get you
much IMNHO. But if you want to be traditonal then go ahead. Try a turbid mash
on a small scale. (5 gallons) to experience the fun of it.
>
> Fourth Question:
>
> Where are the best sources to get cultures? I have obtained a
> Brettanomyces Bruxellensis culture(Wyeast), and have Brettanomyces
> Lambicus and Pediococcus Damnosus cultures(Yeastlabs) on order. I
> would like to get more variety but that will probably take some time.
> Anyplace I can get K. Apiculata. I understand that the major
> contribution of this yeast is for clarity but am open to more info.
> The Sachromyces culture I plan to use is the Wyeast German Ale ( I
> forget the Number) as it is more attenuative (slightly) than the
> American Ale (Wyeast 1056) suggested and I generally like it better
> although it produces less of a yeast cake which may be a problem if
> dead yeast are required to feed the other microbes during aging. I
> could add yeast nutrient with the Brett culture after the main
> fermentation. Any comments?
If you use the Wyeast "brett" then you don't need a standard ale strain since
90% or greater of what is in the package is saccharomyces. As far as other
sources I would contact the Yeast Culture Kit Company. Suposedly Brian Nummer
(Head Start Cultures) has a K. Apiculata. Attenuation is not something to
woryy about as the brett will do this for you. The contribution the K.
apiculata makes to lambic is complex and I'd rather not go into it here. Any
saccahromyces you use will contribute little to nothing to the final flavor of
the beer. Don't use nutrients and don't ever rack it off the dead yeast and
such. Ignore it for 2 years except to top up the ullage.
Sources of cultures include the various commercial companies. Cantillon
usually has some viable yeast and or bacteria. The Lindeman's Cuvee Ren' may
also have viable stuff but I have yet to see a bottle of it. sniff, sob.
Remember that big starters are not required for this type of beer. 200 ml is
plenty.
Jim
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End of Lambic Digest
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