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Lambic Digest #0788
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Date: Wed, 14 Feb 1996 00:30:06 -0700
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Subject: Lambic Digest #788 (February 14, 1996)
Lambic Digest #788 Wed 14 February 1996
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: SOB Competition ("Lee C. Bussy")
Judging Lambics (John DeCarlo )
In praise of CR (C.R. Saikley)
Cuvee Rene (Martin Lodahl)
Re: Cuvee Rene comments (Ed Westemeier)
SOB II: A Superb Event ("Larry D. Gray")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 06:34:21 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at roadkill.org>
Subject: Re: SOB Competition
Congratulations to all on the SOB results!
I keep telling myself that I will have to compete one of these years
but I never seem to do it. It's gonna be real hard to win this way!
:)
Anyway... I'm sure I speak for alot of brewers whn I say that we are
waiting with bated breath for some of the recipes/notes, especially
those that through their non-conventions draw attention to
themselves.
So.... Scott, take a couple of Aleve (tm) and get to it!
- --
-Lee C. Bussy/leeb at southwind.net
* The "Christian Right" is Neither.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 10:02:09 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo at mitre.org>
Subject: Judging Lambics
I was fascinated judging at the Spirit of Belgium. It was very educational,
especially judging with CR Saikley and Martin Manning. Thanks, guys.
One particularly interesting note, while examining bottles with a
flashlight. One of them had clumps on the bottom. Parts of the glass were
clear and parts had little white hills. Even after the usual competition
handling. Wow!
John DeCarlo--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo at mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 11:14:13 PST
From: cr at humphrey.com (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: In praise of CR
First off, thanks to Scott and Tim and everyone else who had a hand in
putting SOB II together. It was a great time and the quality of the
entries was outstanding. The BOS at SOB was one of the toughest BOS's
I've ever judged, and anyone who got that far deserves to be proud of
their brews. I highly recommend SOB III to anyone who likes Belgian
beers and Belgian beer lovers. It's worth the journey.
The real reason I posted is that Cuvee Rene is now being referred to as
CR, so I had to jump into the fray. Brief recap....
Jim Sez :
>>>I finally got my hands on a bunch of Lindemans Cuvee Rene. This is a truly
>>>great product.
And Ed responds :
>> I would give it a score in the 30s if I were judging it at a competition,
>> but I think "truly great" goes a bit too far.
Jim counters with :
>How can you feel this beer only deserves a 30s score? I has all the necessary
>elements of a fine gueuze. Lots of carbonation, great head retention, good
>color. And excellent flavor and aroma characteristics. I dare say this beer
>is in the same realm as Boon, Cantillon and Hansens. Any one else care to
>comment?
And Norm jumps in with :
>My point is that I am confused, and feel less than competent to be a
>judge of Gueuze until I resolve why I see Rene Cuvee as a 40+ point
>beer whereas Ed would score it in the 30's.
I must cast my lot with Jim, and say that CR is absolutely one of the
finest. We recently did a lambic blowout at Mike Sharp's where CR went
head to head against Hansenns, Cantillon, Boon, the real DeTroch (not
the usual Koolaid), and a couple of others - maybe DeNeve. The tasting
panel included Mike, his wife Sheri Almeda, Martin Lodahl, Grant Johnston
(long time head brewer at Marin), and myself. Had we awarded ribbons,
CR would have taken first by a large margin. The single dissenter was
Grant, whose wicked palate preferred Cantillon to CR, but CR above all
others. Otherwise the selection of CR as #1 was unanimous.
If I were to temper the above unabashed praise of CR, it would only
be that I've had better samples of Hansenns and Cantillon than on
that day. But we're getting to finer distinctions at that point, and
I feel it's safe to say that CR can run with the best of them.
Yours in Humility,
CR
- ------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 96 12:43:28 PST
From: Martin Lodahl <malodah at kriek.scrm2700.PacBell.COM>
Subject: Cuvee Rene
In Lambic Digest #787, Jim Liddil said:
> Well I guess this is where we disagree isn't it? The Lindemans CR is a complex
> multidimensional product. The fact that there is acidity along with brett and
> vegetal aromas and flavors is what makes this such a nice beer IMNHO. This
> beer represents the base beer Lindemans uses before it is destroyed with syrup.
>
> How can you feel this beer only deserves a 30s score? I has all the necessary
> elements of a fine gueuze. Lots of carbonation, great head retention, good
> color. And excellent flavor and aroma characteristics. I dare say this beer
> is in the same realm as Boon, Cantillon and Hansens. Any one else care to
> comment?
It's not often that I find myself disagreeing with Ed Westemeier, and
only a little more often that I agree with Jim, but this is definitely
one of those times. I'd definitely put it up there with Cantillon and
Hansens, and above most of the Boon I've had in the last couple of years.
Score? Not below 45. A classic.
Just my opinion.
- Martin
- --
= Martin Lodahl Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com Sacramento, CA USA 916.972.4821 =
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 1996 18:58:35 -0500
From: hopfen at iac.net (Ed Westemeier)
Subject: Re: Cuvee Rene comments
On 2/13/96, Jim wrote:
>Well I guess this is where we disagree isn't it? The Lindemans CR is a complex
>multidimensional product.
Absolutely right!
All we're disagreeing about is on how much we like it.
and Norman wrote:
>This is an interesting development! Would Lindeman's Cuvee Rene receive
>a score in the 30's BECAUSE it's enteric/fecal notes are "a bit much for
>my palate", or because of something else?
>My point is that I am confused, and feel less than competent to be a
>judge of Gueuze until I resolve why I see Rene Cuvee as a 40+ point
>beer whereas Ed would score it in the 30's. My training and experience
>as a judge tells me to use "classic" commercial examples of a style for
>evaluative comparison and to judge & score based on how well a beer
>represents the style, not my personal preferences for or against
>particular flavor components.
Excellent comments!
I realize that my first post was ill-considered, and on further reflection,
I would give the CR a 40. No higher, though. In my (very) humble opinion,
Boon and Cantillon are far superior examples of the style.
But to Norman's point, am I putting too much weight on personal preference?
I don't know. All I can say is that I feel that the Boon and Cantillon each
exhibit complexity that's somehow more integrated than the CR. It, on the
other hand, seemed to be pointing in many different directions at once.
That's a poor description, but I thoroughly enjoyed my two very small
samples of CR, but I don't think I'd enjoy a whole bottle in the same way I
enjoy the other two.
Am I being too parochial? Maybe someone could send me a few bottles of each
and I'll try a side-by-side tasting to resolve the matter. ;-)
Ed
************************************************************
* Ed Westemeier ** Cincinnati, Ohio *
* E-mail: hopfen at iac.net ** Phone: (513) 321-2473 *
************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 13 Feb 96 21:20:09 EST
From: "Larry D. Gray" <102335.447 at compuserve.com>
Subject: SOB II: A Superb Event
Scott Bickham, Tom Cannon, Tim Artz, and other members of BURP are to be
commended highly for making Spirit of Belgium II a suberb Belgian beer event.
Even without a technical session, SOB II was well worth attending and just as
enjoyable as SOB I.
The lodging facilities were comfortable; the food for the judges and for those
who attended the banquet was extremely good; and the judging process and the
beer tasting were well organized. The facilities for all of the events of SOB
II (The Blue 'n' Gold Brewery, Arlington, VA) were new, beautiful, and spacious.
The quality of the Belgian beers at the tasting and available in the Arlington
community was superb and exceeded our expectations.
The seven members of the Bloatarian Brewing League (Cincinnati, Ohio) who
attended SOB II sincerely thank BURPs for their hospitality and for the hard
work and many hours they put into bringing SOB II to fruition.
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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