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Lambic Digest #0630
From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Wed Jun 21 03:32:28 1995
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Date: Wed, 21 Jun 1995 00:30:11 -0600
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #630 (June 21, 1995)
Lambic Digest #630 Wed 21 June 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Fruit, sweetness. (Russell Mast)
Re: Judging sour lambics (Martin Wilde)
Lambics and Judging (Jim Liddil)
spellings (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 10:11:14 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Fruit, sweetness.
> From: "DEV::FVH" <FVH%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
> Subject: fruit ratios
>
> This will heavy on fruit but I figure that since most of the
> true products are very sour and most of what we are seeing in the states are
> sweetened lambics, I might get a middle of the road product.
Can anyone confirm this? I was under the impression that the various
microflora in even a pLambic could handle almost any amount you throw at them
and your beer will become sour and dry with anything but a prohibitive
quantity of sugars or a special sweetener.
Also, has anyone tried making a sweeter lambic by adding saccharine or lactose
to their beer? (Will the lactose get taken up?) I don't want something as
sweet and Lindemann's Kriek, but I have considered trying to make part of the
batch a little sweeter for the little woman. (She likes the dryer stuff okay,
though.)
> Seems my other plambic friends have been told by competition judges that
> their plambics are too sour.
Those judges probably didn't know what they were doing. That happens.
> If I get too much fruit, I can always use the 6 month plambic
> to blend.
Or wait a year. Or, better still, just send the whole batch to me. I'll take
care of it.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 95 12:27:00 PDT
From: Martin Wilde <Martin_Wilde at ccm.jf.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Judging sour lambics
In Digest #629 John DeCarlo talks about judging lambics and sourness
levels. Unfortunately not all judges share your opinions (I wish they
did though!!!). I entered my pLambic in 3 competitions - World of Beer
in Oakland, Oregon Homebrew Festival, and AHA Nationals. I received 3
different scorings, World of Beer: 42, Oregon Homebrew Festival: 8!,
AHA: 32. I had no problems with the World of Beer and AHA results, but
as you can see the judges at the Oregon Homebrew Festival (no offense to
the Judge coordinator...) did not know their butt from a hole in the
ground when it came to judging lambics. When I questioned the judges
about the scores, their feedback was that they did not like the sour
style of lambics and had never heard of or tasted Cantillion or even new
lambics could be sour...
On a similiar subject, last year when I taught a judge training class I
served several different lambics, they all enjoyed the "soda-pop"
varieties and disliked the Boon's and Cantillion's.
So either I quit entering lambic's and do more judging/educating or I
will have to adopt a "what kind of judging am I going to get at this
competition" attitude and adjust the entry to satisfy the type of judges
I expect to get. The latter is NOT MY FAVORITE CHOICE but until the
judging community becomes better educated, I feel like I am wasting my
time and money entering sour lambics in competitions where I suspect the
level of judging experience.
martin
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 1995 16:09:58 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Lambics and Judging
John Decarlo wrote:
% >This will heavy on fruit but I figure that since most of the
% >true products are very sour and most of what we are seeing in the states are
% >sweetened lambics, I might get a middle of the road product. Seems my other
% >plambic friends have been told by competition judges that their plambics
% >are too sour.
What is a true product is debatable. But recently I have had the fortune of
having quite a bit of Hansens and it is quite well balacne with respect to
acidity and brett character.
%
% Yow! What kind of competitions are involved? I have yet to judge a lambic
% that was too sour (or that a judge at the table thought was too sour). Maybe
% because I drink Cantillon and read this Digest I have an advantage, though.
% Still, it scares me to think of such a comment from a judge.
Well I had this exact thing happen to me in the first round of the Nationals.
My beer is very much like some of the CAntillions I have had. But the judges
thought otherwise. Try the current Cantillion that has 1994 on the cork it is
IMNHO outstanding wrt balance and acidity.
%
% Now, if it comes to that elusive flavor you get from dosing with lactic acid,
% I *have* complained about that. <g>
Gee, talking about 2nd round :-)
The following comments are not meant to demean the awards given by the AHA in
the Nationals this year or the judges I worked with. They are my OPINIONS and
mine alone.
I judged the 2nd round lambic ale category in Baltimore. I spent the precious
two weeks drinking lambics every night (Lindemans, Boon, Timmermans, Cantillion
and various homebrewed examples) and the night before judging I had the fortune
of having both Hansens gueuze and kriek. So I would say my palate was well
calibrated.
The calibration beer was Lindemans gueuze and I want to score it in the low
30's but one of the other judges wanted to give it a high 30's (38?). score.
As some of you may recall Tony Babinec posted to judgenet how the judges in
Chicago gave the Timmermans calibration beer a 37. Well i fundamentally
disagree that either Timmermans or Lindemans should recieve anything above a 32
based on the AHA guidelines and the other commercial examples.
I was dissappointed with the 2nd round entries based on their lack of
complexity, one-dimensionality, lack of aroma and various off-flavors that I
have not tasted in any commercial examples or any of my own or many other
homebrewed examples.
So this brings me to ask, what should be considered as the best commercial
examples. If someone duplicates Lindemans should it get a 40? It is celar to
me that many brewers stilldon't really understand the style, but then it is
very complex. With other styles we have pretty clear cut examples of the style.
What should be sued as the examples for lambic? Hoepfully not Detroch and
their gag me products.
Also for the AHA Big Bang I attempted to make a lambic-like beer in less than 3
months and I think the attempt showed that with large cultures it is possible
to make a passable product. I have had great success amking acid beers now I
need to get the brett character down.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jun 95 10:56:00 -0500
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: spellings
I wrote the following to Peter Crombecq:
>Why is "gueuze" sometimes spelled "geuze." At first I thought it was
>just a typographical error, but it appears that some breweries simply
>name their beers in this way. I have also seen "lambic" spelled as
>"lambik," but this is clear -- "lambik" would be a Flemish spelling
>whereas "lambic" is a Walloon spelling, no?
And he replied that "geuze" and "lambik" are the Flemish (and original)
spellings, whereas "gueuze" and "lambic" are the French. He also mentioned
that "lambic" is also accepted in Flemish. Perhaps this should be put into
the lambik FAQ?
I'm always in favor of going with the original, so guess how I'm going to
be spelling "geuze" from now on (I have been writing "lambik" for quite
some time after discussing this with CR Saikley).
Al.
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End of Lambic Digest
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