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Lambic Digest #0657
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:30:10 -0600
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #657 (July 28, 1995)
Lambic Digest #657 Fri 28 July 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
port barrels (Todd Gierman)
new barrels (Paul Edwards)
Re: Lambic Digest #656 (July 27, 1995) (ptimmerm)
Cherries. (Russell Mast)
Brettanomyces in Scotch Ale? (Mike Bovee)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 08:33:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: port barrels
Dan writes:
> Interesting point regarding the new/used barrels. Species of Brettanomyces
> are also found in wine fermentations. I'm not sure about Port, but some
> Bordeaux (particularly Graves) certainly have a very barnlike character.
> I'll step a bit farther out on this limb by suggesting that some Graves
> might have a Brett as part of their fermentation flora and that this may
> even be desirable as a character enhancement.
>
> Following through on this shaky (and perhaps misguided) logic, one could
> imagine that some Ports have a Brett fermentation as well and thus provide
> an additional source of these yeasts for the Lambic brewers that purchase
> these used barrels.
>
Not so far out and shaky. Certainly, Brett is a part of some wine
fermentation (usually an unwanted part). However, it is said that a
number of "world-class" wines have distinct Brett character and that
without it they might not be "world-class." I don't have the faintest
idea which wines these could be. Brett character in wine is probably not
quite the same as Brett character in lambic. However, it is recognized
as such by experienced tasters. Interestingly, according to some
literature, Brett character may be identified in a wine, but it is rarely
authenticated by microbiological analysis - very elusive (I guess).
Sherry-flor is an important part of sherry/port production. However, I
think that it is attributed to non-Brett yeasts. In any event, a port
barrel will probably impart its own character. It doesn't have to be
Brett character, especially if the lambic in the port barrel is to be
blended with other lambic.
Someone else had mentioned the use of recently-acquired port barrels at
Cantillon. The impression was that they were hoping to get some unique
character from them. The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is
whether they condition the barrels by racking lambic from other barrels
into them.
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 07:55:56 -0500 (EST)
From: pedwards at iquest.net (Paul Edwards)
Subject: new barrels
When a lambic brewery or blender gets "new" barrels, I would imagine that they
might transfer a young lambic from older "conditioned" barrels to the
new ones, to break them in and to establish the microflora environment.
I visited Jean Hanssens in June, and his barrels were *old*. He'd patched
them with all sorts of stuff (swatches of corduroy stuffed into cracks with
sheet metal nailed over them, for example), since he said couldn't find a
cooper to repair them. Those barrels weren't new when his grandfather was
doing the blending!
Also, since he gets his wort trucked in from several places, I assume that
this wort hadn't been exposed to the night air, and all the critters to make
his lambics came from the barrel. At least that's the impression I got from
talking w/ him. My french is a bit rusty, as was his english. My wife
filled in the gaps for us, but some of the technical Q&A was probably outside
her vocabulary in both languages.
- --Paul E.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 09:32:16 -0700
From: ptimmerm at mashtun
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #656 (July 27, 1995)
Reguarding new versus old barrels:
I seem to remember Frank Boon pointing
out that a "new" barrel would have a
young fermeting lambic added to it, to
add to it the proper microbes.
paul timmerman
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:33:11 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Cherries.
Nick Zen writes :
> Were the cherries whole? I've always gotten a renewed ferment but I
> freeze them first so they are pretty broken up by the time they hit the
> fermenter. If they were whole I'd bet it will take time for the skins to be
> broken and that won't happen all at once.
I put whole cherries in the fermenter and then spent a good (great) 20 minutes
beating the heck out of them with my bare hands. I read "macerated" cherries
in some recipes, and I assumed that meant I should pound the heck out of them
with my bare hands. (I washed them very thoroughly before'hand', of course.)
Most of them probably had broken skins. The ferment did renew a bit, and is
still going now, so it's not dead, but I'm guessing it's going to be real
slow until more of those skins get done in. THere are a lot of whole-looking
cherries floating on top right now. I took a wee sample, and it was very red
from the other cherries, and had pulpy bits floating in it. And an intense
flavor. Wowsa.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:08:13 -0600
From: mbovee at REX.RE.uokhsc.edu (Mike Bovee)
Subject: Brettanomyces in Scotch Ale?
The backdrop -
In a thread last Dec/Jan, a number of people cited literature pointing out
that Brettanomyces species are capable of producing many characteristics in
addition to the ol' barn/sweat/goat. Two of them were smoky and medicinal.
About this time there was also much discussion about the presence of Brett
in old-time porters, Stock Ale, Orval, and the role this yeast played in
the respective beers' production and character.
My situation -
In April I made a Wee Heavy (Head Start culture) OG 1.090 that has been
aging. According to the Noonan Scotch Ale book and beers that I've tasted,
a smoky character is part of this style and results from a combination of
high mash temps, long boil, aging on trub. A harsh bitterness (mine
exactly) is supposed to mellow into this sort of flavor while aging at cold
temps (45F). Doesn't it seem likely that Brettanomyces are at least partly
responsible for this transformation, and an probable part of the fermenting
cultures of old?
(My hop level was low even for a mid-weight brew)
I am considering pitching a Brett culture from my library to achieve this
effect. Although this batch wasn't easy to make (ALL grain), I won't
consider it a success without this wonderful character.
Suggestions? (sorry about the non-Belgian/lambic bandwidth)
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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