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Lambic Digest #0607
From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Tue May 23 03:33:15 1995
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Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 00:30:10 -0600
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #607 (May 23, 1995)
Lambic Digest #607 Tue 23 May 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
a rather large recipe (Michael Sharp)
Spontaneous Pitching "Rate" (Russell Mast)
The Death of a Friend (Jim Busch)
Mike's Lambic Analysis (Jim Liddil)
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Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 10:04:15 -0700
From: Michael Sharp <msharp at Synopsys.COM>
Subject: a rather large recipe
John Isenhour set me this for posting. Enjoy.
--Mike
- ----- Begin Included Message -----
From: isenhour at alexia.lis.uiuc.edu (John Isenhour)
Date: Sun, 21 May 1995 08:35:59 -0500 (CDT)
I brewed a lambic style gueuze today, and I wanted to share the recipe :-)
HOPS: 1 Kilogram Sazz pellets 4.2% (it was sorta old, but all added for boil)
MALT: 348 pounds of Alexanders wheat malt extract (liquid)
Pitched: 1 barrel of Boon lambic mix that I had built up from a 5 gallon
batch (and have been working with for several years).
Hopefully will end up with about 7 barrels.
The wort seemed a little more bitter than I was expecting, but I was not
sure about scale up from 5 gallon batches, not too bad tho. Starting OG
was 1.059, which is a little high, but heck its my trademark ;-)
What happened was that the brewer at Joes Brewpub in Champagne IL tasted
my gueuze at a judging and was pretty impressed (I didnt tell him it was
mine till later). He invited me to make a batch! What was I to do?
I never figured my first attempt at commercial brewing would be a
lambic style!
I'll keep you posted,
john
isenhour at lambic.fnal.gov
- ----- End Included Message -----
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 13:47:17 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Spontaneous Pitching "Rate"
> From: palmer at ansoft.com (Palmer Davis)
> Subject: how long to leave the pot outside?
>
> But how long should it stay out?
> Overnight? Each night for a few days? Continuously for a few days?
> Until kraeusen forms? Until it falls? Until it ferments out?
> How do the Belgians "pitch" wild yeast?
My understanding was that the pitching took place at the same time as
the cooling, in large shallow tanks open to the night air through
Louvre's. (Not the art museum, sort of like venetian blinds.)
I, in fact, did an experiment very much like what you propose. (In search
of the elusive Brettanomyces Illinoises.) I used about 1 quart of
starter, and poured it into the bottom of my 8 gallon boiling kettle, which
I had heat sterilized. I put it on my back porch with a window open on a
relatively warm (40 F), moonless night in February. I left it out there for
less than 30 minutes, and it was definately cool at the end of that time.
I then transferred it into a container with an airlock. Since then I've
racked it once or twice. It smells really evil at this point and I daren't
taste it, but I'll wait a year or so before dumping it.
SO, to make a long story short, just a few minutes will be enough for some
wild bugs to take hold.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 16:37:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch at eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: The Death of a Friend
Im back from a month of International Beer Hunting and am slowly
sliding back into the harsh reality of normal life. I see that
many of of the digest participants have also been in Europe
recently, shame we all picked a time when the dollar was so
weak, but thats another tale.
I dont know if any of you digesters bother to watch that oh so
intellectual program, Good Morning America, but they seemed to
be following me around Europe. First, it was at the Market in
Munich where Eric Toft was serving Steiner Brau (no its not
Schlossbrau, as Spencer or Charlie said) and implying that all
american beer is swill (note the American tourist drinking a
litre of Dunkles to the right of Eric). Then it was Brugge,
where I was obliged to select numerous Belgian classics for
Charlie and Spencer and the entourage to quaff. It was a bit
of a service so to speak, so that when they went on air with
Jackson the next day they would have something to say. I
did end up pouring the beers for the group for the TV event,
and then later sampling beers with Michael at the Beertje.
This was followed by a dinner with Michael and Daisy (of the
Beertje) that could not be topped (suprise, Michael likes to
eat way too much!). During the course of these events, I
asked Michael if he had sampled the latest incarnation of
Liefmans Goudenband, to which he noted that it had been a
while. I then had to break the news that Goudenband has been
destroyed, at least as good beer hunters would know. It seems
that for some reason Riva decided to increase the alcohol
level in Goudenband up to 8% ABV! When I drank the first one,
I was shocked to be overwhelmed by huge esters and higher
alcohols, at least as compared to the good ol Goudenband. I
forced Peter and Daisy of Beertje fame to try some if this
so called Goudenband. Their response was dead on, "this is
not Goudenband", and the expressions on the faces showed that
we were all more than disappointed in losing an old friend. I
had kept an open mind about Riva's production of Liefmans beers
a few years ago, my mind has been changed and I fear that the
Belgian beer world has lost a classic. Im all for a 8% "Goudenband-
like" beer, but not at the expense of losing a classic. Add
to the product line, but dont take away. Im not certain when
this change was made, but it was listed as 8% in the latest
Peter Crombeck Bier Jaarboek 95-96. The good news is that
the overall beer selection in Belgium continues to increase,
and the size of the latest Jaarboek will attest.
Good hunting,
Jim Busch
"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLOND HOPPEBIER!"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 15:27:22 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Mike's Lambic Analysis
Last Friday we got this:
% Date: Fri, 19 May 95 14:35:35 +0100
% From: "Lut Vancuyck" <lut.vancuyck at agr.kuleuven.ac.be>
% Subject: ...no subject...
%
% Dear Michael Sharp,
%
% Your "Lambic" contains 5500 ppm lactic acid (OK) but also 4000 ppm acetic
% acid (NOT OK).
In a classic sense maybe it is not OK to 4000 ppm acetic acid. Lut can you
tell us how much acetic acid is is Cantillion products on average? I don't
have all the KUL dissertations with me so I can't say how much acteci acid Van
Oevelen found in some of the DeNeve products he studied. This data also helps
confirm what our taste buds sense.
% Only actidione resistant yeasts are present (very likely Brettanomyces) but
% no lactic acid bacteria (not OK) and no acetic acid bacteria (= normal in the
% "anaerobic" bottle).
By lactic acid bacteria do you mean pediococcus or lactobaccilus or both? I
have never had alot of succes culturing pediococcus out of bottle conditioned
gueuze we get in the US (either Boon or Cantillion). Can acetic acid bacteria
remain dormant in a bottle or are they all killed?
% Absence of LAB may be the reason for formation of only low amounts of CO2 in
% the bottle as mostly symbiosis yeast-bacteria gives good further
% fermentation. Other reason may be already very high attenuation so that no
% "sugars" are left present. LAB's have certainly "worked" before as lactic
% acid is present. Acetic acid bacteria were very probably responsible for
% high acetification in previous steps. They are difficult to avoid. Keep
% trying. Good luck.
I believe Mike addded dextrose at bottling. Is it possible that the acetic
bacteria utilized the sugar before the yeast could and thus the beer is flat?
Also could not the lactic acid come from the actidione-resistant yeast strains?
% The taste although quite acid did not keep us from drinking the whole bottle
% and the three persons involved in that process were not totally unhappy.
%
% Prof. H. Verachtert
Well we also don't have hundreds of years of experience and don't do this for a
living :-) Could you analyze a bottle of Boon 1993 Marriage Parfait gueuze and
tell us what you find both bacterialogically and acid content?
Mike do you have any input here?
%
Jim
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End of Lambic Digest
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