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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 00:30:11 -0600
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #652 (July 23, 1995)
Lambic Digest #652 Sun 23 July 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Spontaneous ferment in NA (Ed Hitchcock)
Spontaneous fermentation: the romance continues... (Todd Gierman)
Re: Hope (Conn Copas)
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Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 12:34:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Spontaneous ferment in NA
At the CABA conference in June, Mario D'Eer (Editor, Biere MAG)
claimed that he made a decent spontaneously fermented Gueuze at home.
This was in Montreal, I believe, though it may have been the Ottawa area.
Just a data point.
ed
----------------
ehitchcock at sparc.uccb.ns.ca
the Pick & Fossil Picobrewery
Because there's more to life than just coffee
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Jul 1995 16:17:18 -0500
From: tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu (Todd Gierman)
Subject: Spontaneous fermentation: the romance continues...
Every now and then a true romantic comes forward to ponder:
>>.... the orchards that once filled the Zenne valley provided
>>the microbiota that drifted into the coolships in the attics of the lambik
>>breweries, and that these orchards are long gone. He said that most of the
>>microbiota that now ferments the lambiks is from the casks.
>> I find this very interesting; if true, then the required organisms may be
>> intimately associated with fruit orchards, and not just a particular region
>> in Belgium. Let's face it, these organisms aren't just floating (and
>> growing) out there in the air, they maintain a niche SOMEWHERE.
Well, I am feeling just a tad jaded today, so let me be the one to burst
your bubble AND rain on your parade.
Basically, you need three key microorganisms to produce the most basic of
lambics: S. cerevisiae, a lactic acid producing bug, and Brettanomyces.
If you're missing even one of these guys, your not gonna be making lambic.
So, first off, you're likely to find S. cerevisiae in an orchard. However,
the problem is that these "wild" strains are often poor attenuators. This
may not be so bad if they conk out at 1025-1030 gravity, so you might get
by.
You're more likely to get inoculation of the right lactobacillus from your
hands and mouth than from the breeze blowing through the orchard, but you
never know.
The real tough one will be the Brettanomyces. The natural environment of
Brettanomyces seems to be somewhat of an enigma. They are far more likely
to be found in breweries than in orchards.
My guess is that it is the self-contained environment of the lambic brewery
that is the key to getting these guys and others into the lambic
fermentation. The breweries are bound to be crawling with these hold-overs
from previous fermentations. Opening the louvers is probably as important
for stirring up the air inside the brewery, and thus its residents, as it
is for catching drifting microbes. And of course the barrels are extremely
important for maintaining little ecosystems.
Does anybody know what the breweries do with the cask sediments after
fermentation? I would think that a nice little compost pile with an air
intake next to it would add a little insurance. I think that it is or was
common practice for vineyards to till the pomace (?) back into the soil to
ensure the replenishment of the desired yeast strain (when spontaneous
fermentation is/was utilized).
Dan McConnell has attempted a number of spontaneous fermentations both at
home and abroad (hope Dan doesn't mind that I bring it up). One that I
know of was carried out in his garage. It turns out that Oldsmobiles and
Toyotas don't harbor the right organisms either ;-) Another attempt was
quite ingenious: Dan had an associate set up a mini coolship in his hotel
room, while staying in the Brussels area (Dworp, I think) Dan recovered
two different batches of spontaneously inoculated wort. Although they are
quite interesting, they seem rather limited for making p-lambics - one
cheesey smelling culture seemed to have potential, but even the most
intrepid p-lambic brewers declined to use it (I still have some, if anyone
is feeling brave). The other culture proved to work wonders as a sourdough
starter, though.
A lambic brewer really can't afford to have a hit or miss process like this
seems to be. Again the brewing envrironment is probably very important in
gaining the edge over a seemingly random process.
>> Matucheski (who even grows and malts HIS OWN BARLEY FOR PETE'S SAKE!) also
>> has orchards and insists on spontaneous fermentation.
>
>Michael also grows his own wheat and hops as well. However, like the
>traditionalists, he also ferments and ages in oak casks (and would probably
>tell you that you cant make a decent lambic without them) and which are no
>doubt teeming with fun microbes, and most likely the major source of them.
Would anybody care to post his story to the digest? We've heard plenty
about Boon and Van Roy, and it seems that we're never going to get to
Hanssens or Vandervelden. So how about Matucheski? Is he a Zen master,
too?
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 15:46:43 +0930 (CST)
From: cvc at itd.dsto.gov.au (Conn Copas)
Subject: Re: Hope
Re this topic of fruit-derived lambic microflora, people may remember that I
tried a spontaneous grape ferment a while back, with a view towards using the
culture in wort. The most notable outcome of the fruit ferment was that it was
unpleasantly estery. When introduced to wort, the ferment stalled prematurely,
and so I concluded that I had selected against maltose-philic microbes. At this
point, I added some fresh must in a bid to redress the balance. It is now over
two months since the initial ferment, and the brew has clarified. Observations
are:
1. Poor attenuation (60% apparent). Aeration caused resumed ferment earlier on,
and it seemed to like temperatures above 20C.
2. A powerful (but receding) estery nose. In combination with the residual
malt sweetness, creates the illusion of a barley wine gone wrong.
3. Acidity (pH 3.0-3.5). I haven't titrated it, but it tastes like it is within
wine or cider range. Unlike wine, however, the acidity has not come from the
raw material, which raises the question of whether it is yeast or bacteria
derived. I couldn't see any bacteria on a hopped wort plate, for what that is
worth. On the other hand, any time I have femented wort with dried wine yeast,
I haven't had the acidity, but I have had strong attenuation.
- --
Conn V Copas
Information Technology Division
Defence Science and Technology Organisation
PO Box 1500
Salisbury tel: +61 (0)8 25 95349
SA 5108 fax: +61 (0)8 25 95980
Australia e-mail: cvc at itd.dsto.gov.au
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End of Lambic Digest
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