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Lambic Digest #0527
From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Thu Jan 19 03:32:17 1995
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From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #527 (January 19, 1995)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 00:30:15 -0700
Lambic Digest #527 Thu 19 January 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Lambic Digest #526 (January 18, 1995)n (Roger Lepine)
Belgian wheat malt?? ("DEV::FVH")
re: lambic "guidelines" (Jim Liddil)
Sunday's Debauchery (C.R. Saikley)
brett/Boon '93/lambik vs. gueuze (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 10:38:23 EST
From: Roger Lepine <lepine at hpanrd.an.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #526 (January 18, 1995)n
------------------------------
Date: 18 Jan 95 11:24:00 CST
From: "DEV::FVH" <FVH%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Belgian wheat malt??
I found out one of my local beer stores is now stocking belgian wheat. I am
familiar with and have used most of the other types of belgian malts but
I have never seen belgian wheat. How is this different than American wheat
(white) malt or Gambrinus wheat (red) malt??
I have been told I can get this for $.71 per pound in bulk for each but was
wondering what the difference was, which was better for what use and what the
better deal was.
On the same subject. What belgian beers use wheat malt? I was under the
impression that all of the belgian wheat beers used unmalted wheat. Can
someone shed some light on this?
Thanks,
Dirk Houser
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:59:17 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: re: lambic "guidelines"
Norman writes:
% I noticed that there is no provision in the National Comp. for plambic
% in the Lambic Category. In clarifying this with James Spence, he
% confirmed that one could not enter a plambic into the competion as
% a lambic. It seems that if a plambic were entered as a gueuze, it
% would probably be slammed for obvious stylistic differences. James
% has stated that the Lambic Category will be re-examined next year
% to reflect what homebrewers are actually brewing.
I assume you mean straight unblended, flat beer in a bottle. Well lambic does
not exist in the bottle. Real lambic comes from a cask and is served in cafes
in Brussel etc. For the most part I think most of the "gueuze" that we are
making is really lambic-like beer that is primed. I certainly have not made
any true pgueuze that is 95% old beer and 5% new beer in a bottle. And
whetther or not a beer is slammed is a function of whether or not the judges
really know what lambics are all about. And I think the numbers making plambic
beers are so small that how is James going to change the rules to reflect what
we are doing. How does he even know? Is he claravoiyant :-) I thought the
category "guidelines" were a synthesis of what the real beers are like not what
we are making. Because IMHO none of us is making anything real close to the
real thing.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 13:10:08 PST
From: cr at humphrey.com (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Sunday's Debauchery
Jim (rather sardonically) says :
>Mike writes puffing up his chest:
>% 1. Jef Lambic (1800s text in French about a guy who was really into lambic)
>% states that you can drink lambic all night and not wake up with a 'pasty
>% mouth in the morning'.
>%
>% Well, its true.
>Yea but your body is dull and based on your second post your mind is less than
>pinpoint sharp :-)
Surely we can't consider the event "drinking lambic all night". :-)
32 beers consumed by an average of 7 people is 4-5 each. Spread out over
the course of some 8 1/2 hours, I suspect we're nowhere close to what Jef
L. had in mind.
>%
>% 2. Hanssen's (a small blender in Dwokp) kriek and gueuze where certainly the
>% most memorable beers of the evening. They just edged out the Boon Mariage
>% Parfaits and a host of other very worthy contenders. Seek these out if you
>% find yourself in Belgium. If you aren't going to be in Belgium anytime
>% soon then give up all hope of securing a supply of these -- many Belgians
>% don't know about this blender! (aside: this was a _very_ tough crowd.
>% even making it onto the tasting list meant the beer was excellent. you
>% should not take this as a condemnation of the other beers sampled.)
Regarding Mike's rankings, I'd agree that Hannsen's (sp?, I guess labels are
worth something) was the winner. I'd also add that the 3-4 year old hand carried
Boon Kreik was superior to the recently imported Marriage Parfait. This beer has
defintely changed character in the last few years.
>Also this brings to mind being a plambic judge. I found this the mst valuable
>experience yet for being able to see the huge range of flavors in lambic. For
>those of you out there get some Boon MP gueuze 1993. Thsi defines the character
>of brett very well imho. The 89 kreik mp on the other hand is an excellent
>excellent example of lactic acid and dryness. Cantillion on the other hand is
>lactic and acetic.
No doubt about it, last Sunday's event was great fun and very educational, but as
far as range of lambics goes, a single well spent day in Pajottenland can expose
you to a much greater range of flavors. Straight lambic from the cask (singular)
at De Kilo in Asse is a completely different experience, then there's the summer
lambic, Drie Fontainen, etc. The point being that any serious lambic-head owes
themselves a trip.
An interesting point which came up Sunday is that there are now more (p)lambic
brewers in the US than in Belgium. Furthermore, lambic brewing is dying there,
while just beginning here. It may well be that what remains of the lambic
tradition in the 21st century survives through our efforts here. Go while you
still can.
CR
------------------------------
Date: 18 Jan 95 15:55:00 -0600
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: brett/Boon '93/lambik vs. gueuze
Jim and Mike speculate about the slowness of Brett and perhaps it has
something to do with the Saccaromyces eating up all the glucose. For
blending purposes, I brewed up a 4-gallon batch of wort and pitched
nothing but the Wyeast Brett into 3 of those gallons. It was slow.
It had nothing to compete with, but still it was very slow.
Also, a yeast that I've been experimenting with (one that I got from a
bottle) appears to behave very much like a brett, based upon its very
slow ferment -- we're talking about 3months at 68F! Despite also having
nothing to compete with, it is still very slow.
Regarding the Boon MP '93, I tried some last Saturday at the Mainstreet
tasting and felt is tasted "oily." Does anyone concur? There was a lot
of lactic character and a little horseyness/oakyness, but the taste, to
me was "oily." Forget about calling Mainstreet -- I bought every bottle
of MP they had in the store: '86 Framboise, '89 Kriek and '93 Gueuze.
If they get more, I'll post, but only after I've taken another few cases
for my personal collection.
Finally, regarding Norman's plambik/pgueuze differences, how would you
all think they would be different? Gueuze is a bottled blend of old and
young lambik. Lambik doux (according to Guinard) is young sweetened
lambik. As I see it, the only lambik any of us would be likely to taste
would be from casks at the breweries -- do any cafes still sell lambik?
Young lambik, I would think, would taste different from gueuze, but how
would old lambik (if it was bottled) taste any different from gueuze?
If we are to present a proposal to the AHA for changing the guidelines,
then we should come up with a consensus, no?
Al.
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End of Lambic Digest
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