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From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Tue Mar 28 03:45:33 1995
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From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #570 (March 28, 1995)
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 00:30:16 -0700
Lambic Digest #570 Tue 28 March 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Lambic Digest #567 (March 23, 1995) (Heikki Putkonen)
Re: Wyeast (Jeff Frane)
Brettanomyces and me. (Russell Mast)
TRASH V COMPETITION (WALZENBREW)
Re: Vendors' responses (Kelly Jones)
World Cup of Beer Winners (David Klein)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 15:38:14 +0300
From: putko at tolsun.oulu.fi (Heikki Putkonen)
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #567 (March 23, 1995)
>From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
>Subject: Apology to Wyeast Labs
>
>This is a formal, public apology to Wyeast Labs and it's owner David
Logsdon...
Oh boy, I really would not like to live in a country where you
get sued awful amount of slightest opinion. (For is this just it..)
(Was the freedom of speech somewhere in tha constitution...)
Heikki Putkonen
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heikki I Putkonen | putko at tolsun.oulu.fi / TTTTT OOO L
University of Oulu, TOL | +358 40 5431901 Mob / T O O L
FIN 90570 Oulu, Finland | +358 81 5531912 Tel / T O O L
The Standard Disclaimer | +358 81 5531809 Fax / T OOO LLLLL
Presently in Paris +33 1 30 81 23 55 Tel ...24 75 Fax
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 09:46:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Jeff Frane <gummitch at teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Wyeast
In answer to some queries, no, Wyeast does not have Internet access.
Their awareness of the Lambic Digest and commentary on their product
came from customers who do have net access -- not, oddly enough, from
me.
Without wanting to get mired in this discussion myself, I must say in
response to those who questioned whether any libelous statements had
been made in the Digest: if the opinions had been *confined* to the
Digest it would clearly have been a tempest in a teapot. 'Nuff said.
At any rate, here is a public statement from Dave Logsdon, of Wyeast
Labs, given to me over the weekend.
===============
Regarding information posted on this Digest concerning packages
of Wyeasts culture #3278.
Wyeast is under microscopic examination by many customers, both
as homebrewers and professional brewers in an ongoing process
that is part of the quality control procedures used to monitor results.
This is well-understood and expected. Wyeast stands behind what we
produce, and have always responded to inquiries and comments about
our products. Wyeast would not be in business today if we did not
have satisfied customers.
In regard to Jim Liddil's comments, I can only wonder why there was
no response to a letter sent to him requesting his input on specific
cultures Wyeast used for this product. Wyeast's objective is to
provide cultures which produce flavor characteristics appropriate
to the style. Obviously, in the case of lambic beers, it is
theoretically impossible to provide all of the strains, in the
correct proprotions, with the procedures to reproduce this beerstyle.
Experienced brewers realize this, and should have the wherewithall to
proceed with that understanding. But what about the novice? Should
they be provided the proteolytic bacteria 9which has been identified
to include enteric bacteria) so they can produce a truer lambic?
In several years of producing this product, we have yet to receive
one complaint about the quality of beer produced with this culture.
Here at the lab, we have produced many fine beers as part of our
research and evaluation. Yet we do remain open to comments and
suggestions on how we can improve it. I do not believe that one
person's perception of something so complex, should be etched in
stone as being the only way it can be accomplished.
If this forum is for the advancement of lambic brewing, would this
not constitute positive input and discussion?
Sincerely,
Dave Logsdon
=========================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 95 12:08:21 CST
From: Russell Mast <rmast at fnbc.com>
Subject: Brettanomyces and me.
Okay, let's move to specifics.
Brian Nummer of "Head Start Brewing Cultures" - Do you sell strains of
Brettanomyces yeast? How much does it cost and where do I order it from? Do
I need special training for this, do your cultures require special handling?
(I am no microbiologist, but I have enough skill to culture from the dregs of
a bottloe conditioned beer, for instance.)
Daniel McCnnell of "YeastLab" - From your post I see you do supply a Brett.
My other questoins above apply.
Also, to both, is there any place in the Chicago area where I can purchase
these without mail-ordering them?
To everyone - have you used Brett. from either of these sources (or Wyeast,
for that matter) and were you satisfied with the the performance?
Thanks in advance.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 17:49:26 -0500
From: WALZENBREW at aol.com
Subject: TRASH V COMPETITION
The Three Rivers Alliance of Serious Homebrewers is proud to announce our
Fifth Annual All-Category Homebrew Competition, to be held in Pittsburgh, PA
on May 20, 1995.
This competition is sanctioned by both HWBTA and AHA and is open to all beer,
mead and cider categories as listed in the 1995 AHA National Competition
category descriptions. Please note that Sake entries will not be accepted.
If you are interested in an entry package, please call or e-mail me with your
postal address and we will send it out by US mail.
Last year's winners received 50 lb sacks of malt, 10 pound bags of hops, and
cases of canned malt extract, all donated by Pennsylvania extract
manufacturers and breweries. Best of Show also won a Samuel Adams neon sign,
generously donated by the Boston Beer Company. While we can't guarantee the
same prizes this year, they will be similar. All winners will also receive
ribbons.
You can enter using standard sanctioned competition recipe and bottle forms,
and the AHA 1995 National Competition category list (note - AHA list was
revised in 1995). Entries are $5.00 each - make checks payable to Mark
Benson, Registrar. The entry deadline is May 6, 1995. Note that you can
enter as many times as you wish in any category or subcategory.
UPS entries to: TRASH V c/o Country Wines
3333 Babcock Boulevard
Pittsburgh PA 15237
If you're a judge we need your help! Pittsburgh is centrally located, only a
few driving hours from Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryl
and, most of New York, New Jersey and Ontario. Beds for judges, and rides
to/from the airport will be available. Judges may also pre-register entries
if they wish to bring their beers with them. We plan to have a banquet (free
to judges and stewards and their spouses) after the competition. And as we
are sanctioned both with AHA and HWBTA, your points can be recorded in the
program of your choice (or both). Last year we had 172 entries, and we
expect over 200 this year. Please e-mail or call me for more information.
Cheers,
Greg Walz, Organizer
(412) 331-5645 voice; (412) 331-5364 fax
WALZENBREW at aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 16:05:24 -0700
From: k-jones at ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones)
Subject: Re: Vendors' responses
First, let me congratulate and thank Brian Nummer and Dan McConnell for
their posts. It's good to see there are suppliers willing to respond with
information rather than with threats of legal action. That said, I have a
few additional comments. I should point out that I have almost no microbio
background, and don't pretend to be knowledgeable in this area. If I have
erred, feel free to let me know.
Brian said:
> As far as typing goes
>I list my cultures by the style of beer it came from.
Although this may be good in many cases, in others (it seems to me) it may
not be enough. For example, the yeast may have "come from" a bottle of
Weizen, but actually be a bottling strain, and not a phenolic producer. Or
it may have "come from" a bottle of lambic, in which case it may (or may
not) be just about anything. It seems that far more is needed in the way
of typing.
Brian said:
> What
>> guarantees are vendors offering?
>
>I guarantee the customers satisfaction. If they are not satisfied I will
>replace the culture or refund their money.
>
While this is good, it is little consolation to a brewer who has just
poured 10 or more gallons of beer down the drain (in which he has invested
many hours and dollars) , because of bad or mislabeled yeast, to know that
he can get his $2.75 (or whatever) back. Would you buy medication from a
pharmacist whose only guarantee was that he'd refund your money if he
accidentally sold you the wrong stuff?
This is not meant to be an attack on anyone, I'm just pointing out that a
vendor needs to go far beyond a money back guarantee in terms of quality
assurance. Dan didn't mention whether he also offers this guarantee, but I
hope it would be a given.
I won't bother to critique Dan's methods, since for the most part I didn't
understand what he said! ;)
Just my thoughts.
Kelly
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 23:01:55 -0800 (PST)
From: David Klein <klein at physics.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: World Cup of Beer Winners
Thanks to all who entered the Bay Area Mashers' 1995 World Cup of Beer.
We had 156 entries and 14 entries in the Belgium Abbey and Lambic Category.
We would also like to thank Sheri Almeda, Mike Sharp, C.R. Saikley, and
Martin Lodahl for judging.
The Belgium winners were:
1st) Martin Wilde (with a Kriek)
2nd) Scott Bickham (also with a Kriek)
3rd) Tyler Yarbrough (with an Abbey)
Full results are making their way to the HBD
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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