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From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #575 (April 02, 1995)
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 1995 00:30:11 -0700
Lambic Digest #575 Sun 02 April 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: SA Lambic ("Lee C. Bussy")
Pedio pitching (Todd Gierman)
culture vendor hoopla (Mike Bovee)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 05:36:40 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject: Re: SA Lambic
> Just was looking through the latest mailing from Sam Adams and
> came across an interesting article on brewing Lambic beer.
Ok..... you got me! :)
- --
-Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... |
leeb at southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! |
Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb |
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 21:14:18 -0500
From: tmg at galactose.mc.duke.edu (Todd Gierman)
Subject: Pedio pitching
David Reynolds laments:
>I have been growing a pedio culture for almost 5 weeks and am disappointed
>in the amount of growth. I obtained the strain from Brewer's Resource and
>used the provided 10 ml of MRS broth to grow the strain from an agar stab.
>After 10 days I pitched this 10 ml into 400 ml of 1.030 S.G. wort that I
>filtered using a sterile apparatus suitable for tissue culture (I filtered
>the wort to eliminate the protein sediment and thereby be able to see how
>much the pedio grows.) The pedio did grow, but not much; the cell sediment
>was not even enough to coat the bottom of a 1 liter flask. I got tired of
>waiting and pithed the starter last night, que sera sera. My question now
>is:
>
>What is the best way to grow pedio and for that matter brett strains?
>Should I use special media (MRS broth) or supplements? How long should
>they take to reach pitching volume?
>
I am probably in the minority on this, but I think that the use of MRS
broth for growing such cultures is a waste and _should_ be unnecessary. In
princicple you should be able to grow pedio in straight beer. There are
published studies on pedio taxonomy where beer was the growth medium.
MRS is fine for analytical purposes, as it may increase one's ability to
isolate such organisms as Pedio and other Lactos. However, for maintenance
and preparative procedures I don't think that it is the way to go. First
of all, if your culture will only grow in MRS, what good is it to you?
Secondly, shouldn't you be concerned that you might be adapting your
culture to MRS? I suppose that in this case MRS is being supplied as a
means to jump start the culture after it has been in the agar stab. Still,
it shouldn't be necessary.
Growing Pedio in wort should be a good way to go. Regardless of the
medium, Pedio growth is not easy to monitor. In addition to slow growth,
they are really small (even by bacteria standards) and it can be difficult
to assess the culture even with a microscope (I know I can't). Basically,
I look for two things: 1) the formation of a rather scant sediment over a
week or two and 2) the formation of diacetyl (a bi-product for which Pedio
is notorious; see "sarcina sickness"). I have never grown more than 10 ml
cultures, but would expect that even large volumes will only produce a
little sediment (constant agitation under anaerobic conditions might help).
Unfortunately, you won't really know whether the Pedio is working until
about 8 months down the road (at least I don't get significant pH drops
until around then - just like I don't get a Brett pellicle until 6 months).
Then again, I have been a pitcher of small cultures.
Grow Brett in regular wort, no supplements.
Rich Larsen spoofed:
>Ferment at around 70F for about three weeks. Also it states
>that for a higher success rate the beer should be brewed only once a
>year on April fools day. ;-0
I have to admit that eventhough I figured it to be an April fool's joke
from the beginning, I started getting sucked in somewhere in the middle.
Considering their shrewd and cunning hijacking of historical figures and
traditional brewing practices for promotional purposes, this story wasn't
sounding so out of line.
I suppose that appending the above disclaimer, eventhough it lightens the
effect of the joke, is symbolic of how litigation conscious one must be
about one's posts these days.
Al asked a couple of issues back about whether we (collectively) still
consider Brett to be the principle producer of "horsiness."
Yes. Although, it is true that some lactos are capable of producing the
compound responsible for what is also called "mousy-taint" in wines. I
think that it really will be subject to the conditions of the fermentation
(in addition to the strain of yeast), that is, whether "horsiness", etc.
becomes prominent.
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 1995 21:02:27 -0600
From: mbovee at REX.RE.uokhsc.edu (Mike Bovee)
Subject: culture vendor hoopla
FWIW, regarding the recent hoopla on the net about culture vendors: I, for
one, appreciate the fact that for a mere few bucks I can obtain clean
cultures of such outstanding pedigree and variety. I am grateful for the
integrity of the small-business person, such as Brian Nummer. His company
provides an interesting selection which doesn't overlap with other vendors,
and he has provided me with helpful suggestions via email - can't get that
from Wyeast, for example.
And I'm really not worried about contamination in the cultures I've
purchased from Head Start or other reputable sources (although I DO check
them as a matter of my own QA). IMHO, Contamination problems are far more
likely to be the brewer's fault. The brewer, not the vendor, operates
within the less-controlled environment. It bothers me when other brewers,
who (can) perform no QA on *their own* starters, suggest that since their
beer turned sour it was even likely that the fault lay with the supplier's
culture. Naturally, there are going to be rare exceptions when a bad one
gets away from the vendor (I've gotten one or two over the years). It's
_still_ worth it. HOMEBREWING IS NOT VERY EXPENSIVE AS HOBBIES GO,
sometimes people just take it a little too seriously. Just my opinion.
Mike Bovee
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End of Lambic Digest
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