Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Lambic Digest #0532
From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Thu Jan 26 06:13:59 1995
X-VM-v5-Data: ([t nil nil nil nil nil nil nil nil]
["6129" "Thu" "26" "January" "1995" "00:30:14" "-0700" "subscription requests only" "lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu" nil "156" "Lambic Digest #532 (January 26, 1995)" "^From:" nil nil "1" nil nil nil nil]
nil)
Received: by truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2)
with X.500 id GAA12834; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 06:13:57 -0500
Received: from goodman.itn.med.umich.edu by truelies.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.6.9/2.2)
with SMTP id GAA12829; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 06:13:56 -0500
Received: from longs.lance.colostate.edu by goodman.itn.med.umich.edu with SMTP id AA19144
(5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for spencer at umich.edu); Thu, 26 Jan 95 06:13:55 -0500
Received: (daemon at localhost) by longs.lance.colostate.edu (8.6.9/8.6.5a (LANCE 1.01)) id AAA14589 for reallambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu; Thu, 26 Jan 1995 00:30:14 -0700
Message-Id: <199501260730.AAA14589 at longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Reply-To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu (postings only - do not send subscription requests here)
Errors-To: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu
From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #532 (January 26, 1995)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 00:30:14 -0700
Lambic Digest #532 Thu 26 January 1995
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Lambic Judges (Norman Dickenson)
Re: Lambic Digest #531 (January 25, 1995) (Michael Sharp)
Send article submissions only to: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Send all other administrative requests (subscribe/unsubscribe/change) to:
lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Back issues are available by mail; send empty message with subject 'HELP' to:
netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
from the archives lists individual topics and the complete set.
Start with the help message above then request the index.
A FAQ is also available by netlib; say 'send faq from lambic' as the
subject or body of your message (to netlib at longs.lance.colostate.edu).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 08:58:20 +0800 (U)
From: Norman Dickenson <norman.dickenson at SONOMA.EDU>
Subject: Lambic Judges
Lambic Judges
Jim writes:
<Norman writes and I reply to debate the point:
<% For the purpose ofAHA National Competition guideline definitions, the
<% difference beteen
<% gueuze and lambic might simplistically be defined as *sparkling* and
*still*.
<But, but... How many judges are going to know what still lambic is supposed
to
<taste like. Unless you have been to Brussels you are SOL. The only other
way
<to taste still lambic is if you make your own. Unless specific judge
training
<is put in place I think this is going to be a hard style in pin point.
Again
<the "guidelines" are, I thought, supposed to represent what the classic
example
<is like. In this category "simplistic" isn't going to work IMNHO.
This is a rehash of the Kolsch judging discussion a couple of months ago on
the
Judgenet Digest. Unless one has been to Koln, one does not know what a Kolsh
is like. There are probably far fewer examples of Kolsch available in the
USA
than there are examples of Lambics. That still does not preclude the fact
that
it is a legitimate style represented in most competitions. The point I am
trying to make is that by "pushing the envelope" of the lambic styles, even
if
the definitions are *simplistically* representative of their complex breadth,
promotes overall awareness of and education about these styles. Improvement
of definitions by successive approximations can come later after the style is
on the public plate. Judges will seek out those styles in which they lack
familiarity,
even if only in literature. In an imperfect world which lacks organized
judge
training for the rarer styles, the process has to begin somewhere, even at
the
expense of evaluations by judges who are incompetent in the style. If there
is, indeed, a lambic renaissance going on over here, then let the neophites
join in. :>)
-norman-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:42:47 -0800
From: Michael Sharp <msharp at Synopsys.COM>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #531 (January 25, 1995)
Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU> writes:
> Subject: Palate Thrashing
>
> Then we had a bucnh of belgian beers and I quite taking notes :-)
quit taking or unable to continue taking? 8-)
so how legible was your writing on those last few? 8-)
> So overall the Hansens was excellent but so was the Boon MP Framboise. Also
> this was an excellent example of the broad range of flavors in the lambic
> style. It also made me question the ability to say one lambic is "better" than
> another particulary in a competition. If I was judging these beers I would not
> be able to say which was "best" based on the 50 point scoreing sheet.
I _completely_ agree. Being able to do so would indicate that you know what
the style should taste like. Since we had so many widely different
(and EXCELLENT) commerical examples I continue to find it hard to believe that
anyone knows what the style should taste like. I've given up on trying to convince
people of this -- its something you have to experience.
> Funky off flavors are a part of it and personal preference also plays a big part.
ditto.
> Again my point still is that based on this tasting I still think that the
> broadness of the style is not understood by the majority of "judges" out there.
> We have Hansens at one end, Cantiilion at another and Bellevue at another.
> What constitutes a 45-50 point beer is debatable. Are you an acid head or a
> sweet tooth. I bet MP Kriek would get slammed for being to dry and no fruit
> etc.
ditto dito ditto
Both of these points are very important and that why I've repeated them.
> Teddy cries:
>
> % Has anyone else experienced a plambic that was totally "dead"? This stuff
> % was 10 months old, and it hadn't changed in either appearance or flavor for
> % the last 2 or 3 months...
>
> Well if the culture is not viable or conditons are not right well it won't
> grow. I was amazed at Mike's beaver beer that had no acid or brett character
> yet he claims to hav put the right bugs in there.
Mike's beaver beer: This name was given to it by Martin Lodahl (I think).
It was the first batch out of mynew American Oak cask 4+ years ago. After
numerous treatments with everything under the sun that would help remove
tannis, etc. I used this cask for the batch in question. It was this batch
that convinced me that you cannot make a new barrel neutral without actually
running 5-6 batches through it.
The name beaver beer is very discriptive of the contents of the bottle. Its
a beer a beaver would love. Its recommended that you strain out the oak splinters
with your teeth.
> I still have much to learn and everytime I
> think I have something figured out I get a reality check. O course it was good
> to see Mike Sharp is having problems :-) :-) :-)
same to you buddy. I don't think I'm alone in that category and I think
you know what I'm talking about. 8-)
--Mike
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
-------
