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Lambic Digest #0515
From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Thu Dec 29 03:26:54 1994
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From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #515 (December 29, 1994)
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 1994 00:30:12 -0700
Lambic Digest #515 Thu 29 December 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Aaron's nose for Brett (Todd Gierman)
Belgian Red ("Andrew R. Ruggles")
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Date: Wed, 28 Dec 1994 08:39:41 -0500 (EST)
From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: Aaron's nose for Brett
Aaron writes:
> I just got 2 brett strains, rumored to originate with Charlie PPapazian.
>The one labeled "Brett Lambicus" had the floral, apple, sour, fruity
>aroma that I usually associate with "lambic". The one labeled
>"Brett Brux" was more on the horsey/foxy/feral side, and , well,
>downright disgusting.
> Are these aromas reasonable to expect? Todd Gierman described the
>sour, pppple, fruit aroma. Is this ok? Is it the gemeral aroma of
>Brett Lamb? Should the Brett Brux have been less..... nasty?
>Is Brett Brux often noted to be the big "horse" producer?
>(I'm still unclear on horseyness, since I have never been around
>a sweaty horse blanket.)
Okay, I'll respond, since all eyes are on me anyway and since I gave him
the initial "tip" about which he asks.
First, a question: how well do you think "Relax, don't worry..." applies
to culturing Brettanomyces? Wait. Don't answer that. Let's wait and
see what Jim Liddil says :-) No, I am not invalidating the cultures from
the start, just injecting some humor (smirk).
I stick by the sour, appley (ciderish), fruity, and floral descriptions.
I would not begin to attempt to make any distinctions between B. lambicus
and B. bruxellensis (in spite of Guinard). In fact, I challenge any
supplier of B. lambicus to prove that it is B. lambicus, or at least tell
us how they would do so. If it comes from a culture bank like the ATCC
labeled lambicus, well okay. However, if it is being pulled from a
bottle of lambic and then being called B. lambicus (and not B.
bruxellensis or B. claussenii or what about Dekkera, hmmm?), then I think
we need to know why.
These are not "nasty" yeasts. They provide some very distinct and
pleasant characteristics to certain beers. Indeed, if you eliminated
Brett, then you would not be enjoying the flavors of the following:
traditional lambics, Orval, some De Dolle beers, and, I would wager, some
or most Flanders "Oud" beers (Reds/browns) - though not Liefmans.
The "B. lambicus" sounds about right. However, the B. bruxellensis is
worrisome. Did these come as slants or liquid cultures? Try putting
them in fresh starter and see what they smell like in a few weeks. In
starter cultures, I have never noticed Brett as smelling disgusting or
even "feral". I would say that in addition to the particular
descriptions of aroma, they are also generally clean and spritely (does
that help? Not likely.).
Of course, others who have cultured up Brett may feel differently. It is
clearly a bitch to try to decipher what you've got without the proper
tools (which few have). However, I think that you will have a good idea
if you can establish for yourself what characteristic aromas and flavors
these yeast produce. If they (the yeast) don't give you what you want,
then you don't want them.
Todd
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 94 11:13:20 -0500
From: "Andrew R. Ruggles" <rugg0002 at gold.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Belgian Red
I just had a bottle of holiday cheer brought over to me last night that I'd like
to share the results of. It was a bottle of Belgian Red by the New Glarus
Brewing Co. in New Glarus, WI. The label reads:
"You hold the marriage of wine and beer. Belgian Red is a tapestry fo flavor.
This beer is brewed with whole Montmorency Cherries, Wisconsin farmed wheat and
Belgian roasted barleys, balanced by Willamette hops we aged in our brewery one
full year.
Over a pound of Door County Cherries in every bottle makes this beer uniquely
'Wisconsin'." "Expect this beer to be ruby red, with a medium body that is
highly carbonated and intense with cherry flavor and bouquet."...
"Vielen Dank! (signed) Daniel Carey, Diploma Master Brewer"
What this doesn't mention is how this tastes so sweet, it was difficult to put
down very much of it. My guess is that they were trying to emmulate a Liefmans
Kriekbier, but it ended up much to sweet. I can't remember off-hand if Liefmans
uses "aged" hops, but I certainly don't remember much hop flavor in it. The New
Glarus Brewing Co. makes several styles including a highly regarded Edelpils.
This would tend to preclude the use of exotic critters in the brewery. The
color was a ruby red and brown and very cloudy. There was no visible yeast
sediment, but it could have been suspended in the solution. It would be
interesting to see if anybody can plate anything off this. I suspect that it
only contains a Sachromyces, and even then it may have been filtered. Athough I
did not find this to be in the class its name suggests, I must commend the
brewery for trying a difficult style, and going beyond imitation, to
understanding that a unique product based on the produce of the region its
really the path to follow. Maybe next year's batch will be called Wisconsin
Red.
Cheers,
Andrew
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End of Lambic Digest
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