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Lambic Digest #0433
From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Tue Aug 30 03:20:31 1994
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Subject: Lambic Digest #433 (August 30, 1994)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 1994 00:30:12 -0600
Lambic Digest #433 Tue 30 August 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Lambic Digest #432 (August 29, 1994) (Rich Larsen)
Re: Lambic Digest #432 (August 29, 1994) (Rich Larsen)
re: Spontaneous Fermentation (Carl Hensler)
Boon etc. found in Chicago (Environmental Design and Management)
tasting notes (Todd Gierman)
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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 09:31:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #432 (August 29, 1994)
> EfrainM at aol.com
>
> Have any of you ever tried a spontaneous/wild fermentation? I am curious to
> try it, but I'm pretty sure I'd end up with nothing but a moldy beer. If
> anyone has tried it, how did you go about it?
> *****Efrain*****
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sun, 28 Aug 1994 17:56:16 -0500 (CDT)
> From: BAN5845 at tntech.edu
> Subject: Lactic acid content of beers
>
> I am writing an article about lactic acid in beers, eg. Wits, Lambics, Berl-
> Weisse, etc. Has anyone seen data on the content of lactic acid in these
> styles or in particular brands? I have seen Guinards Lambic Book which has
> some Lambic numbers. Specifically I am looking for the mg/L Lactic acid
> in these beers to help develop recipes to get a grip on acidifying these
> beers. If anyone has sources or suggestions I would be greatful.
>
> Thanks. Brian Nummer BAN5845 at TnTech.edu
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> End of Lambic Digest
> ************************
> -------
>
>
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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 09:37:33 -0500 (CDT)
From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen at squeaky.free.org>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #432 (August 29, 1994)
Dang...
Sorry again... Hit the wrong darn key...
Isn't there a way to cancel a message here like the HBD?
> EfrainM at aol.com Writes :
>
> Have any of you ever tried a spontaneous/wild fermentation? I am curious to
> try it, but I'm pretty sure I'd end up with nothing but a moldy beer. If
> anyone has tried it, how did you go about it?
I wouldn't try spontaineous fermentation in the Chicago area. There is a
nasty wild yeast or something that leaves the flavor of burning
electronics combined with chalk. Not exactly to style for lambics ;-)
I've lost a couple of batches to this beast, because I let my yeast
starter wort cool outside. I now chill it in the freezer.
=> Rich (rlarsen at squeaky.free.org)
Rich Larsen (708) 388-3514 * free.org free Internet access (715) 743 1600
Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
"I never drink... wine"
Bela Lugosi as Dracula
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 16:41:07 -0700
From: carlh at atlas74.West.Sun.COM (Carl Hensler)
Subject: re: Spontaneous Fermentation
Efrain's request for information about spontaneous/wild fermentation
reminded me of something I read some time ago. Nancy Silverton, the
owner of the wildly successful La Brea Bakery here in LA, was asked
where she got the starter culture for her breads. She replied that she
got grapes from an "organic" vineyard, and crushed them into a flour
and sugar batter. Made lots of sense. Natural yeasts grow where they
find sugar. Grapes are covered with yeast. That's why all you have to
do is crush them to make wine.
Suggestion: Grapes or fruit that haven't been sprayed can be used to
make starters. Different geographic locations will have different
mixes of yeast and bacteria. An established agricultural area is
probably a better source than a city.
Carl
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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 23:34:03 -0300
From: edm at fox.nstn.ns.ca (Environmental Design and Management)
Subject: Boon etc. found in Chicago
A BrewNoser just got back from Chicago. He has brought Boon Framboise,
Kriek, Faro and Gueze with him. In fact he just phoned to invite me to
share - a very nice guy. Problem was, the stuff was about $7.00 a bottle
and that's US dollars. This was at Sam's Wine Warehouse, almost across the
street from Goose Island Brewery. He also found some Traquair House and
Goudenband. Is the $7 a rip off or normal? (There was no Cantillon.)
Jeff Pinhey, Halifax, NS, Canada
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Date: Mon, 29 Aug 1994 21:51:52 -0500
From: tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu (Todd Gierman)
Subject: tasting notes
Just in case you cared:
_Rodenbach Grand Cru_
Last week my wife and I celebrated our 7th anniversary with an evening
picnic in the Duke Gardens. I was assigned the task of gathering up the
items, which I did hastily after work. At the local specialty food store,
I grabbed up pate and soft cheese, funky semolina rolls and smoked salmon.
For the main course, I gathered deli salads and settled on barbecue ribs
(yes, ribs). A split of Chandon Blanc de Noirs would do to wash down the
appetizers, but what about the ribs? Aha! Boon kriek for her, Boon
framboise for me. Finding none in stock at this store, I headed down the
road to another "gourmet" food store where there was plenty of Boon to be
found. Well, plenty of kriek, but no framboise. Hmm... what to have with
ribs. Yup, it would just have to be something acidic to cut the grease,
but Boon Gueuze was just too "earthy" for what I wanted. Oh, there's
Rodenbach and Rodenbach Grand Cru. Hmmmm...this was the very same place
where I bought that pseudo-Grand-Cru-swill 7 months back. Well, the labels
are now different without those strategically-placed stickers covering
"Gand Cru." I went for it.
As we happily ate and enjoyed the evening, I realized that a better plan
would be to split the Rodenbach as we ate ribs and then drink the kriek as
we headed into desert. Okay, but how to pitch it? I mean, even if this
stuff didn't taste like the last (and only) bottle I had, I could be in
trouble. Well, she settled for a taste of mine just to see how it was.
She then gave the go-ahead sign and I poured the rest of the bottle into
her glass. This was really a superb beer, nothing like the previous stuff.
It was fruity, tart, somewhat dry, and lively carbonated. I would not
call it overly sour, nothing like lambic intensity and not as intense as
Bios Copper Ale, for that matter. However, I sensed the sourness more as
lactic than acetic. I also sensed what I thought to be Brettanomyces
character (not horsey, just ethyl lactate and/or ethyl acetate). Anyway,
this is far better than the stuff that was knocked about in previous Lambic
Digests - my wife thought that it was "nifty" (I have known her for 11
years and this was the first time I had ever heard her use that description
for anything). Nifty, indeed.
_Boon Kriek_
It looked like the local gourmet store had recently received a shipment.
As mentioned, I snatched up a bottle for my wife thinking that it would
offer her something different without offending her taste thresholds (she
likes Corona). I had had a Boon Kriek about 9 months ago and thought that
it was fairly syrupy-sweet with some horsiness, but otherwise benign. We
used this bottle to wash down our desert pastries. This, too, was a
wonderful beer. Much drier than what I had had before. Horsiness was
pretty limited, but it was a fairly complex beer nonetheless. However,
when I asked my wife whether she would like to finish the last bit of the
bottle she replied: "No, thanks. I mean, that was good, but I really
liked that other one (Rodenbach) much better." Who knew?
_Witkap Pater Single_
Mike Sharp mentions this one several digests back. It's fairly flavorful,
but not remarkable (everything can't be). However, it has a flavor that I
pick up which I have noticed in the likes of Duvel and Grimbergen Tripel.
What is it? Is it spices? Is it the yeast? I can't tell - maybe its a
light touch of coriander.
_Boon Faro Pertotale_
Just as he has with the Gueuze (or so we are told), I think that Frank is
playing around with ways to blend and market his faro. I have now had
three bottles of faro and all have been different. The first was really
wonderful. It didn't really seem to fit the description that Jackson gives
in the Beer Companion. This was much like a gueuze, but a little softer
and more balanced in spite of a lot of Brett character (which was alive and
well in the dregs). I grew up that Brett and pitched it in my p-lambic.
However, I forgot to make a stock, so I went in search of another bottle.
I bought a bottle at the gourmet store which seems to have greater turnover
than the other retailer that carries Boon. I took this bottle to share
with friends with the intent of culturing the dregs. I was really
disappointed. This did fit more closely with Jacksons description - an ale
blended with aged lambic - but where was the lambic? It was nearly flat, as
well. A really lack-luster beer compared to what I had had before.
Whatsmore, upon examining the dregs under the microscope, I could find
nothing that looked like Brett, just a bunch of S. cerevisiae. The dregs
become active when sterile wort is added, but the resulting culture lacks
any Brett character.
Not completely discouraged, I stopped at the other vendors and bought the
last bottle, hoping that it was part of the same shipment as that other
wonderful faro that I had had. Once opened, I could tell immediately that
this beer had been refermented in the bottle with Brett. It was much
sharper and more flavorful, much like before. And of course, the dregs
seem to be full of Brett. I'll post on these two cultures, once I have
plated them and can examine them more closely (could this be yet another
Brett source biting the dust?).
So as you can see, our local distributor focuses on VanBerg and Dewulf
imports (under 6% alcohol - sometimes a heavy one gets through) and seems
to shun Merchant Du Vin and other importers. Bios and Liefmans used to be
available around here, but no longer. Come to think of it, this digest
seems to focus mainly on VanBerg and DeWulf imports...Can anybody name
other importers and the brands that they import?
And while we are at it...well, I am not going to ask "Does anybody know how
to make Rodenbach", because I already know the answer: a little corn, some
vienna malt, etc., a 22-strain, 150-year-old yeast culture and big wooden
tuns for a 2-year aging process. But, really, is anybody trying (or is
this next years project)? :-)
Todd
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End of Lambic Digest
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