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Lambic Digest #0464
From postmaster at lance.colostate.edu Fri Oct 7 03:40:06 1994
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From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #464 (October 07, 1994)
Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 00:30:14 -0600
Lambic Digest #464 Fri 07 October 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Lost in CI$ Land (Jim Liddil)
DeTroch, and Zymurgy (Spencer.W.Thomas)
re: Archives on sierr.stanford.edu? (Michael Sharp)
ANNOUNCE: SoB Conference Web Page (Rick Garvin (703-761-6630))
Spirit of Belgium ("Phillip R. Seitz")
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Phil Seitz' series on Brewing Belgian Beer is available; the index
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 7:40:41 -0700 (MST)
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Subject: Lost in CI$ Land
Scott asks:
% I've been a "normal" >brewer since 1979 and have enjoyed lambics whenever I
% could get my hands on them. Now its time to >try to make my own p-lambic. But
% because of the long ferment process and the extreme seasonal >temperature
% fluctuation in my house I'd like a few things clarified.
Temperature fluctuate in Belgium in the non-temp controlled breweries.
% >
% >1) What is the lowest as well as the most optimal temperature for P. Cerevisiae
% and B. Lambicus,
Pedio will gorw at 60 F or at least it is slowly but surely in my freezer
fermentation box. Brett will grow at that temp also but slowly. I beleive it
gets this cold in the cellars in lambic breweries. I am probably wrong though.
Go with the flow and let it ferment at what ever equilibrium temp it reaches.
Start it and forget about it for two years :-)
2) >Would it be a sin to use S. Uvarum vs. S. Cerevisiae for
% the main ferment, and
The "main" fermentation in "real" lambic is done by saccharomyces species. So
use what ever. Mike used Chimay once and I think he said it had no effect on
the final flavor. Use what ever, like dregs from a bottle of homebrew.
3) What order and >schedule of additions should be made
% for these beasties as well as are there any others that I >absolutely need.
Your guess is a s good as mine :-) The "research" shows that enterics grow
first, then kloeckera, then saccharomyces, then pedio, then brett and sometimes
lactos and sometimes some acetobacters. Some people do the addition all at
once. Some add in stages. I am doing that on my current batch. I have
withdrawn some wort after the primary ferment and am adapting each of many
critters to this environment prior to adding them to the main batch. How amny
critters you need is debatable. I am of the more is better view at this point
in time, provided they will grow in hopped fermented beer.
Also do not rack the beer start it in one container and leave it. Use raw
wheat. Use 2-4 ounces old hops. Old hops can be found if you are resourceful
:-). I certainly have more than I need for a few years.
Oh
% one last thing - how many ounces of old stale hops do I need for 5 gallons, I
% >have 2 now but could oven stale more if need be. P.S. - I do have Guinard's
% Lambic book as a >reference.
Read Guinard 3-4 times and be prepared to be very patient. Order the cultures
when you know for certain you will brew. Brett and pedio are fastidious and
will die quickly if not provided the right environment.
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 14:30:00 EDT
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: DeTroch, and Zymurgy
A couple of days ago, I wrote:
> I note that the Zymurgy article on Netherlands/Belgian beers pushes
> the DeTroch/Chapeau line. In fact, I was struck by the coincidence
> (?) that most of the beers mentioned in that article simultaneously
> showed up in my local beer store. From the author bios, there
> appears to be no connection, ...
I must have been blind, or on drugs, or something. The DeTroch beers,
and many of the others mentioned in the Zymurgy article are imported
by All Saints Brands. One of the authors of the article is definitely
connected with All Saints Brands. It says so right in his bio.
And, I quote from the article (without permission):
The beers of DeTroch's Chapeau line ... are clear and clean in
flavor. The acidic attack of the gueuze and the intense
character of the fruit lambics are certainly not for everyone,
but any beer enthusiast who seeks an authentic Belgian lambic
need look no further.
I haven't tried the fruit lambics (Banana, indeed!), but gueuze is
anything but acidic. It's bland and tasteless. Well, not quite
tasteless, but pretty darn close.
A friend who runs the beer dept at a local store said they're probably
replacing the Timmermans line with the DeTroch line. It's a shame. I
had the Timmermans Gueuze last night, and it's just SO much better
than the Chapeau, it's not even funny.
Anyway, I already sent one vitriolic letter to Zymurgy this month, so
maybe somebody else could take up this particular attack.
Documentation would be helpful; I'm not sure whether ALL the beers
mentioned in the article are imported by All Saints Brands, or whether
only MOST of them are.
=Spencer in Ann Arbor, MI
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 13:10:41 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: re: Archives on sierr.stanford.edu?
Rob Thomas writes:
> I guess this should go to Mike directly, however, I've mislaid his
> email address. Would there be any chance of moving the archives onto
> an ftp server such as sierra.stanford.edu (where the hbd resides).
Are you volunteering?
I have no objection to setting such a thing up and could supply a volunteer
with the necessary starting materials.
--Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 17:13:28 -0400 (EDT)
From: rgarvin at btg.btg.com (Rick Garvin (703-761-6630))
Subject: ANNOUNCE: SoB Conference Web Page
The Spirit of Belgium now has a web page. This can be found at:
http://www.btg.com/~rgarvin/sob/sobconf.html
The page includes conference agend and registration information.
Competition information will be up shortly. Email version are available
for the web challenged from rgarvin at btg.com.
Cheers, Rick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 20:42:21 -0400
From: "Phillip R. Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Spirit of Belgium
This is a reminder to interested parties to send in your registrations
if you're planning to attend the Nov. 11-12 conference. The earlier we
get a body count, the better we can plan to keep you fed and dru...uh,
happy. :-)
If you need a registration package, send me a message via e-mail. If
you like Belgian beer and haven't heard about this event, do likewise.
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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