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Lambic Digest #0435
From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Thu Sep 1 03:51:13 1994
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Subject: Lambic Digest #435 (September 01, 1994)
Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 00:30:12 -0600
Lambic Digest #435 Thu 01 September 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Beer Prices (Larry Lynch-Freshner)
Boon (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Re: Lambic Digest #434 (August 31, 1994) (ptimmerm)
Sucrose inversion (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Seeking Rodenbach ("Manning Martin MP")
Another pilgrim in Belgium (Yeebot)
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Date: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 10:28:07 -0800
From: <larrylf at taligent.com> (Larry Lynch-Freshner)
Subject: Beer Prices
Just had to chirp in here, I'm also in 'sunny california', and I've only
been paying around $4.50 a bottle for Boon & Rodenbach. If I remember
right, the 750ml of Saison DuPont was around $6-ish. This is at 'Lets
Brew' in Morgan Hill (South SF Bay Area)(very south)
Larry
delete LarryLF->OrphanOpinion(*this);
------------------------------
Date: 31 Aug 94 17:41:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Boon
Jeff writes:
>A BrewNoser just got back from Chicago. He has brought Boon Framboise,
>Kriek, Faro and Gueze with him. In fact he just phoned to invite me to
>share - a very nice guy. Problem was, the stuff was about $7.00 a bottle
>and that's US dollars. This was at Sam's Wine Warehouse, almost across the
>street from Goose Island Brewery. He also found some Traquair House and
>Goudenband. Is the $7 a rip off or normal? (There was no Cantillon.)
As far as I know Cantillon has only been sighted in Washington DC and Boston.
I believe that $7 is rather high for Boon -- at Mainstreet Deli & Liquors,
the closest "good" liquor store to me, they have the four Boon beers ranging
in price from $3.49 to 5.49, I believe. I've talked to them about shipping
beers to beer wastelands and they said that they would be willing to do it.
They already UPS wine all over the US. Give them a call at 708-354-0355
and tell them you want Belgian beers shipped to you. They accept Visa.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 08:36:50 PDT
From: ptimmerm at mashtun.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #434 (August 31, 1994)
Conn V Copas writes wrt that unique indescribable grimbergen flavor:
{
...
The secret of Duvel is one of those things which keeps cropping up for
discussion on various lists. Here's some speculation:
1. DMS, presumably due to some combination of malt, yeast strain, chilling
regime and/or cold maturation.
2. Allied to the above (strangely enough), acid. I have been playing around
with sucrose as an adjunct recently, and surprised myself by how minor
additions result in a lager-like character in some light ales. By 'lager', I
am here referring to the packaged, mass-consumption variety. What seems to be
happening is that the well-documented cidery note contributed by sucrose can
add a desirable fruitiness in small amounts. To me, the fruit is more
reminiscent of acid than of esters, and is more apparent in the nose than in
the taste. This leads to a ridiculously simple hypothesis: the use of sucrose
increases acidity, or at least the proportion of certain volatile acids. To
invert sucrose, we know that we need to use acid, so maybe the yeast secretes
the same. Does anyone have any hard data on this?
}
Well, I seem to remember from organic chem 151 that acids and alchohols make
esters. I can not remember the chemical cause of "cidery" however. If it is
an acid, that could result in ester formation. The production of fusel oils
(i.e. longer chain alchohols) provides a variety of potential esters, and
aromas/flavors.
Paul Timmerman
------------------------------
Date: 31 Aug 94 18:21:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Sucrose inversion
Conn writes:
>the taste. This leads to a ridiculously simple hypothesis: the use of sucrose
>increases acidity, or at least the proportion of certain volatile acids. To
>invert sucrose, we know that we need to use acid, so maybe the yeast secretes
>the same. Does anyone have any hard data on this?
No, the yeast don't use acid to invert the sugar, but rather enzymes. Yeast
secrete invertase which converts sucrose to it's component glucose and fructose
molecules. "Invert" sugar is called that because of the way it refracts light
as compared to pure sucrose. Perhaps it is invertase or the products of the
fermentation of invertase which give the cidery flavors?
Al.
------------------------------
Date: 30 Aug 1994 15:55:33 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp at mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Seeking Rodenbach
Todd muses:
>And while we are at it...well, I am not going to ask "Does anybody know how
>to make Rodenbach", because I already know the answer: a little corn, some
>Vienna malt, etc., a 22-strain, 150-year-old yeast culture and big wooden
>tuns for a 2-year aging process. But, really, is anybody trying (or is
>this next years project)? :-)
A friend and I set out to make an Oud Bruin (we were secretly desirous of a
Rodenbach, but dared not admit it openly). The plan was to make a red-brown
wort, with ~15% corn flakes, a combination of Belgian pale and caramel malts
to get the color right, and a long 2.5 hr boil. A yeast culture from
Dentergems wit was used in a ~60-40 split; the 60 pitched with the
previously-isolated saccharomyces only, and the 40 pitched with the
lactobacillus-yeast mixture as obtained from the bottle. The two worts were
then to be blended until the correct sourness was achieved.
Results were only so-so. The plain yeast wort was of typical Belgian ale
character, albeit a little too phenolic. The mixed culture wort was not
overly sour even by itself, and so was recombined with the other portion. The
body was about right, and there was no obvious corn flavor. In my opinion,
the most obvious missing element was the mild acetic sourness that is present
in Rodenbach. I think that getting the correct balance and level of lactic
and acetic acids is the trick. Literature on Rodenbach's methods (Jackson,
Great Beers of Belgium) suggests that the acetobacter resides in those large
wooden tuns, and is therefore introduced late in the process. We haven't
tried it again since.
Martin Manning
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 94 23:18:18 EDT
From: Yeebot at aol.com
Subject: Another pilgrim in Belgium
First, the Bad News:
Next week, my wife goes to Europe for a month, WITHOUT ME.
Now the Good News:
She flies in and out of Brussels! Yay!
Can anyone pleeeez, recommend several must-try Belgian beers that aren't
available here that she could bring back for poor old me?
I'm far from being an expert, having tried only a dozen or so, though I've
pretty much liked them all. My favorites, so far, have been Westmalle
Trippel, Hoegaarden Grand Cru, Rodenbach Grand Cru, Liefmans Goudenband, and
anything from Boon. (Have not tried the Marriage Parfait.) Hell, I can
actually say that I never met a Lambic I didn't like.
I forget the legal limits on what one is allowed to import, but I recall
reading from time to time about people bring back a six pack or two. Could
this be so? =8-)
Please feel free to post here or to me directly at yeebot at aol.com
Thank you ever so muchly,
Mike
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End of Lambic Digest
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