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From: lambic-request at lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #500 (December 03, 1994)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 00:30:16 -0700
Lambic Digest #500 Sat 03 December 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
brett physiology (ROB THOMAS)
brett physiology pt2 (ROB THOMAS)
Re: Lambic Digest #499 (December 02, 1994) (Fliper)
Judging Lambics (Lee Bussy)
Boon '86 framboise ("Phillip Seitz")
candi vs. invert (Patrick Casey)
In the realm of the senses: Brett sensory nomenclature (Todd Gierman)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:50:01 +0100
From: thomasr at ezrz1.vmsmail.ethz.ch (ROB THOMAS)
Subject: brett physiology
Hello all,
here are some opinions/comments on Brettanomyces fravours, and the
selection of Brett. based on them. Skinner (Bact. Rev. 11, 260, 1947) reviews
Custer's Dutch Thesis (Custers, M.T.J. 1940, Onderzoekingen over het
gistgeslacht Brettanomyces. Thesis. Tech. Hoogeschool, Delft.) with respect to a
number of very relevant matters:
1. Aerobic culture on glucose containing substrates produces CO2, ethanol and
acetic acid. The acetic acid is formed from the alcohol not the sugar. At pH 6.4
only acetic acid is formed from the alcohol, whereas at pH 4.35 and 3.77 some of
the acid is further oxidised to CO2.
2. Brett. Claussenii (as well as B. Brux.) shows a definite negative Pasteur
effect, that is, when a glucose broth culture is inoculated with cells
previously grown aerobically, the cells under the more anaerobic conditions at
the bottom of the flask are unable to carry on more than a very slight anaerobic
fermentation and an aerobic fermentation only in proportion to the dissolved
oxygen. As the oxygen is depleted, the fermentation ceases. However, the cells
become more and more adapted to anaerobic conditions (with successive
generations) and normal anaerobic fermentation resumes. Cells previously grown
anaerobically do not show this (negative Pasteur effect).
3. Objectionable odours are produced in the early stages of Stock ale
maturation.
4. (from Henrici, A.T.Bact. Rev. 5, 97, 1937) Brettanomyces will ferment normal
beer wort to completion in six months, producing about 10 percent alcohol.
What I conclude is that the culture history and the medium acidity/aerobicity
are as important (if not more) than the strain of Brett. being used, and to
discount a Brett. because a single trial run produced the "wrong" flavour is
unwise. Also, the reference to objectionable odours in young Stock ales must
surely be of relevance to our pursuits.
A related observation I made was the definate "off" flavour of one of a pair of
splits of Wets gueuze (with the same batch number on the label). One was a
typical Wets product, mild acidity, light fruitiness, and a barely present horse
(pony?). The other had a defective cork (it hadn't swollen tightly in the neck
and pretty much "fell" out). This one was flat (no surprise), highly turbid, a
much darker (almost orange) colour, and both smelled and tasted like scrumpy. By
scrumpy I mean the turbid almost flat hard cider produced in Somerset England
(by wild fermentation, known to involve Brett. Brux.). There were also other
nuances in the taste that I found almost nauseating. On rubbing some in my hands
(a great way of amplifying the horsey/wet-blanket smells) it was evident that a
considerable mousy component was also present. So, what was wrong with this
bottle? Well, the jury is still out (and the plates still growing) but I think
it was an extreme case of aerobic fermentation by Brett.
part 2 coming up......
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 12:50:32 +0100
From: thomasr at ezrz1.vmsmail.ethz.ch (ROB THOMAS)
Subject: brett physiology pt2
part 2.....
actually, not much else to say just yet, except I found a book in our library
which might interest the yeast farmers among us.
It's "Farbatlas und Handbuch der getraenkebiologie,
Teil 1, Kultivierung/Methoden, Brauerei, Winzerei"
by Werner Back, publ. Getraenkefachverlag Hans Carl Nuernburg 1994
ISBN 3-418-00704-x
Though it is in German, that shouldn't be too much trouble, since it is
essentially a collection of photographs and photomicrographs of
cultures and cells of ALL "bugs" found in breweries and wineries.
It also has quite a few gems of information, like 0.2percent
copper sulphate in the agar medium will inhibit Sacch. but no wild
yeasts. Or that Berliner Weisse contains Brettanomyces.
It's about 170 pp 24x34 cm with mostly bw plates, but colour plates
where necessary (eg the fluorescence micrographs).
Oh, and this W. Back is none other than the successor to Prof. Narziss
at Weihenstephan (since 1992) - so he ought to know what he's doing!
anyway, that's it for now,
cheers,
Rob.
p.s. keep up the healthy griping Mike!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 07:46:00 -0500
From: Fliper <pec at tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #499 (December 02, 1994)
It must be Sam Adams, as I've been checked on several times...
The clarification offered to me was that it was a wheat beer with
cranberry added, not a lambic.
presumably nuttin other than yeast beasties, damn. I wonder if
they've been called.
thanks about the invert sugar clarification. as well... boy i was just
a fountain of misinformation there... :/
fil up (with one fructose/glucose (with one l) invert)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 1994 06:52:13 -0600 (CST)
From: Lee Bussy <leeb at southwind.net>
Subject: Judging Lambics
Was lurking here for a while and just decided to comment on something I
know something about: Judging.
I agree with Al K. and others about judging Lambic brews. To state that
a beer had a "Brett character" is doing it an injustice. I mean, you
wouldn't say an Ale had "S. cervasiea" character would you. The sensory
contributions of the Brett go far beyond just a short blurb about whether
ot not they are present. Judges should strive to describe the
attributes: Horsey, goatty, fruity, etc.
Having said all I want to about that, I was wondering if we could get a
little discussion going in actually selecting, storing and manipulating
Brett and other traditional Lambic cultures. I have quite a collection
of yeasts (21) but don't have a clue how to feed and care for my Lambic
friends. Also, is it considered bad taste to actually ask a person for a
slant (or however they are stored) of their cultures? I don't care if
someone asks me about my yeasts but judging from some of the comments
I've seen here I wonder if they aren't kept in the brewers safe somewhere?
-Lee Bussy
leeb at southwind.net
Wichita, Kansas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 94 10:04:44 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Boon '86 framboise
Another interesting footnote from the SOB swirl:
The night before the conference started we had a small party at our
house for our Belgian guests (5) and some friends. For the occasion I
got three bottles of the '86 framboise from my small stock, and I was
looking forward to offering everybody a treat. The interesting thing
was that the Belgians all hated it. Strongly. As it turns out none of
them really DISlikes lambics, and one of them helped judge the fruit
lambic category and thoroughly enjoyed the regular Boon framboise I
supplied as a calibration beer.
Their complaint, which has some merit, is that beer is filled with
chemical and staling flavors (and Philippe Perpete, who's doing staling
research, was particularly vocal concerning the latter). I have to
admit that they're right, although I think all of these are pretty mild
and that certain oxydation-related coffee flavors can add some
interest. However, I was a bit surprised at how vocal the reaction was.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 Dec 94 16:28:56 EST
From: pacasey at lexmark.com (Patrick Casey)
Subject: candi vs. invert
Fliper writes:
>>about candi sugar:
>>i cannot vouch for this, but i seem to remember there being slightly
>>more than just browning the sugar. i thought there was an addition of
>>citric acid (specifically lemon juice) that caused some some invert in
>>the carbon chain.
Then Al writes:
>You are mixing up caramelization and the making of invert sugar from
>sucrose. Invert sugar is a mixture of glucose and fructose made from
>sucrose by adding some acid, like citric, and heating. The inversion
>has to do with what the solution does to a beam of light and not with
>any carbon chains. Glucose is dextrorotary (right-hand rotation) and
...
Fliper _may_ have something, though. Rajotte gives some examples of
candi sugar makeup as I recall, stating that they typically contain
some percentage of sucrose, some fructose, and some glucose. And he
states that dark candi sugar is a caramelized sugar solution that is
then allowed to crystalize.
So from this, it seems possible that candi sugar is sucrose that is
both caramelized and partially "inverted", i.e. some of the sucrose
has been split into its fructose and glucose components. Of course,
Rajotte may be wrong on this one... ;-)
On this topic: After making a batch using homemade candi sugar
(sucrose caramelized in a pan -- Kitch's method from last year), I was
wondering how the choice of sucrose will affect the flavor. Some
folks here have hypothesized about the effects of the yeast having to
excrete invertase to break up the sucrose molecule before munching on
the fructose and glucose. Also, is it possible that some splitting
takes place through the intense heat used in caramelizing the sugar?
I think it would be cool if we could solve the "big candi sugar
problem" here in the Lambic digest. On the other hand, experimenting
with different sugars is part of the fun of brewing Belgian Ales...
- Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 1994 00:03:30 -0500 (EST)
From: Todd Gierman <tmgierma at acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: In the realm of the senses: Brett sensory nomenclature
Ed Hitchcock provides us with an excerpt from his upcoming book, _The
Sensuous Beer Drinker_:
>Due to the recent revelation of The Secret of Orval, I thought I
>might express some of my perceptions of this beer. Orval is the *only*
>beer I know which has an aroma that does not fade as you smell it. In
>fact it *builds*, from an initial "earthy/fall day" to "loamy forest floor"
>right up until it peaks at "Back side of the barn". I attributed much of
>this to very long dry hopping with a large dose of EKG, and I am glad to
>know that Brett is now involved in this. When trying to explain the
>character of this beer, I sometimes say that Orval is a beer that smells
>like sex. Pretty good for monks.
And just what are you reading while you enjoy an Orval, Bronte, Robbins
or E.B White? We must not get the same quality of Orval down here,
because I would have said, "smells like a walk down a hospital corridor."
Lucky you.
Al makes several points:
>I don't know about few, but I think that the problems are with nomenclature.
>It is far too easy to write "slight brett character" on a lambik judging
>form and be done with it. I feel that it is more accurate to say what
>you really smell: horsey, fruity, sweaty, oaky... in stead of taking the
>easy way out. I'll admit that I've been guilty of this too.
[snip]
>Therefore, I propose that we stop saying "Brett character" because it is
>correct that my beer had a Brett character -- it was very fruity, and
>indeed partly from brett -- but it did not have horsey or sweaty
>character.
[snip]
>I've had bottles from a single case of Cantillon Gueuze that have varied
>from very lactic to pretty acetic. All were very oaky.
[snip]
>What about goaty? Are these positives or negatives in a lambik? They would
>be from the caprillic and capriotic (sp?) acids, but are they welcomed or
>not?
[snip]
Okay, okay. Clearly we have a nomenclature problem. Maybe we should
settle on a standard nomenclature of sensory characteristics for the
purposes of this forum, and if theses descriptors start showing up in
judging evaluations then we can all be pleased. So, picking up where I
understand Dan McConnell left off at SoB - it _was_ "Greasy", wasn't it,
Dan? :-) - I'd like to add a few terms to the list.
1) I think the catchall "Brett Character" is okay in a general sense,
because right off it connotes characteristics that are absent in most beer styles. For
this style it is a good thing and this term gets us oriented in the right
direction.
2) Horsey, goaty, mousy - these are inadequate, because they mean
different things to different people and can be somewhat misleading. I
mean I have scraped the sweat (with one of those metal sweat scrapers, no
less) from sweaty, lathered up horses and I just can't bring myself to
describe a beer as "horsey." Horse sweat is far more pungent (sharp and
musky) than anything that I have gotten from a bottle (thankfully). I
tend to use "goaty", but then I don't really know what goats smell like.
I suppose we could say "musk ox", but then some lambic drinker north of
the Arctic Circle would have to correct us. Conn Copas has refered to
the Brett character of Orval as "foxy" and now Ed Hitchcock says that it
is "sexy." It strikes me that all of these descriptions are decidely
glandular in orientation. So, maybe if we just said "glandular", then
everyone would get a better sense of what was meant. Actually, another
description that sort of incorporates all of these animalistic concepts
and might be appropriate is "feral". Yes, I would like to see "feral"
used in a judge's comments: "Your beer is distinctively feral. Keep up the
good work!"
3) "earthy/fall day" to "loamy forest floor" - I really like this, but
it is a bit wordy. I think that "detritus" or "leaf litter" is more to
the point.
4) "Outhouse" - no thanks.
Well, I think that we are coming to the realization that "Brett
character" is potentially very complex. I am not even completely
convinced that horsey (ahem, glandular or feral) is actually a desired
attribute, historically speaking. Okay, I can't quote any sources
because I don't have any, but I have seen gueuze refered to as the
"champagne of Brussels" and Jackson cannot help himself but to constantly
bring up the association. He also frequently equates dry lambics with
fino sherry. A turn-of-the-century American beer-writer calls lambic a
barley wine. Indeed, what other beer approximates the final gravity
of wine so closely? If wine or champagne from barley and wheat is more
the desired outcome, then aren't we really looking for more delicate
features like fruity and floral?
Ethyl lactate and ethyl acetate are known for their pleasant, fruity
aromas and are used in making artificial fruit flavorings. These are
pretty significant compounds in old lambic.
Capric acid and caprylic acid. These are fatty acids that often end up
with ethanol and other alcohols to form various esters. Capric acid
apparently has a characteristic goaty quality. However, caprylic acid
apparently smells more rancid. These may also be a be products of bacterial
fermentation, I think.
2-acetyl-3,4,5,6-tetrahydropyridine is more specifically the compound
thought to produce the "feral" component of lambics. Pyridines can be
somewhat nasty compounds. Would any of the resident toxicologists care
to give us a run down on this compound? :-)
The turbid mash is probably important for producing Brett character in
that it results in higher extraction of polyphenols from husks (does it
not?) in addition to starch. Brettanomyces has the ability to convert
these to even more aromatic compounds such as 4-vinyl guaiacol and
4-ethyl phenol. The latter produces that oh so oaky aspect that the
barrel owners seek (when it is at the right concentration). Higher
amounts make it smoky and medicinal. I think that many of the oxidative
yeasts (like Candida lamibica and others) increase this aspect, as well.
Some strains of S. cerevisiae can also produce these (the wheat beer
yeast and bakers yeast, too).
Factoid: Brettanomyces can readily assimilate lactic acid and ethanol
and will, according to van Oevelen, grow at a faster rate than S.
cerevisiae with these as carbon sources.
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
************************
-------
