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Lambic Digest #0358
From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Wed Jun 1 03:13:29 1994
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Subject: Lambic Digest #358 (June 01, 1994)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 1994 00:30:08 -0600
Lambic Digest #358 Wed 01 June 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Lambic Digest #354 (May 27, 1994) (KLASSEN)
Chips, Both Wood and Cow (Martin Lodahl)
Sorry about the reposts ("DEV::FVH")
Re: Lambic Digest #353: Origins of "bommel" (Richard Akerboom)
Re: Bon Appetit (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
more references (Michael Sharp)
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Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 08:18:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: KLASSEN at BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #354 (May 27, 1994)
The Rodenbach Grand Cru that I purchased this winter (importer is in NY
State) did not have the foil or paper wrap and came in a 4-pack. If it was
classic (blended) Rodenbach, I can't say because it was BAD, I.e. totally
unpalatable. And I have enjoyed many Rodies in the past, incl. a rather
tart 1970's blend at the Cafe Kulminator in Antwrp. But in case you still
doubt me I have 3 of the offending bottles left as testimony to what I say.
Anybody who can chug them down with a smile on their face can sample a hand
-carried paper-wrapped Grand Cru on me--you just have to swing by my place
to take me up on this offer!
H. Klassen
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Date: Tue, 31 May 1994 06:56:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: malodah at pbgueuze.scrm2700.PacBell.COM (Martin Lodahl)
Subject: Chips, Both Wood and Cow
In Lambic Digest #357, Rob Thomas mused:
> What it said was:
> Fermentation in wooden barrels or
> wood-coated tanks
> I didn't think about it at first, but what is the general
> concensus about "or wood-coated tanks".
> Well, presumably the wood is there to support infection
> but the various beasts. So far so good. But what about
> the microaerophilic environment of the barrel? i'm not
> sure I can visualise the tanks very well, but presumably
> there is little O2 exchange if any. Do we assume then
> that wood chips in a glass fermenter will do just as well,
> so long as we reuse them religiously?
> Any thoughts out there?
Yes. I wasted time chasing the thought that the magic of barrels
was the low-level gas permeability before tasting the Kriek
that remains the best synthetic lambic I've had to date. I
by chance met the brewer later, and learned that it had been
fermented entirely in glass, but with French oak chips added to
the carboy. They were not re-used, but a single application.
Could the value of the wood be as a substrate, or could it be
that the beasties whose efforts we're trying to encourage have
a serious need for tannins?
> Oh, and I can identify with Mike when his daughter said
> it smelled like "all the cows in Belgium farted at the
> same time". My wife thought it had developed (sic) from
> diapers to cow dung. Personally I think she was being ating
> little harsh (but then it's MY baby!)
That was my daughter (Ms. Mouth) who said that. That's one of the
seldom-discussed hazards of this pursuit ...
And Donovan Bodishbaugh addressed turbid mashing:
> ... From Mike's diagram, it looks like the three turbid mash
> decoctions are added back together at the end of the mash schedule. Martin
> added them immediately to help boost to the next rest temp. Comments?
Dr. Mussche said (I don't recall whether it was at the presentation
itself, the party afterward, or another party a few days before) that
the purpose of this mash process is to maximize tannins and
unconverted starches in the fermenting wort. What "the other Martin"
was doing, then, was more like a thin-mash decoction, and wouldn't
have achieved those aims. The implication of that, though, is that
this mash scheme washes an utterly horrendous volume of water through
the mash, unless the abstractions and additions are very small indeed.
This won't be an easy nut to crack.
- Martin
= Martin Lodahl Systems Analyst, Capacity Planning, Pacific*Bell =
= malodah at pacbell.com Sacramento, CA USA 916.972.4821 =
= If it's good for ancient Druids runnin' nekkid through the wuids, =
= Drinkin' strange fermented fluids, it's good enough for me! (Unk.) =
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 94 09:46:00 CST
From: "DEV::FVH" <FVH%DEV.decnet at mdcgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Sorry about the reposts
My apologies to Micheal Sharp and Martin Wilde for reposting their original
posts.
I was intending to ask the same question as Rick Bodishbaugh but sent the
wrong file instead. Rick saw the same thing, is it better to wait until
all of the takings are done before adding back(as in the drawing) or to
take, heat and then add back before going on(as Martin did)?
Once again, Sorry
Dirk Houser
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 May 94 08:09:47 EST
From: boomer at sylsoft.com (Richard Akerboom)
Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #353: Origins of "bommel"
In Regards to your letter <199405260630.AAA06295 at longs.lance.colostate.edu>:
>
> (Aside, perhaps one of the Flemish-speakers might comment on the origin of
> 'bommel'. I looked in a Flemish dictionary; it showed bommel as relating to
> hommel and also to trains, but the etymology was a little beyond me).
Don't know any Flemish, but in German there is a word "Bummel" which
means a stroll, as in wander around. It can also be used in a phrase
meaning to go on a spree. Either or both of these meanings seem to
fit.
Rich
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Akerboom Domain: boomer at sylsoft.com or akerboom at dartmouth.edu
Sylvan Software uucp: dartvax!sylsoft!boomer
Mechanic St. Phone: 802-649-2231
P. O. Box 566 FAX: 802-649-2238
Norwich, VT 05055 USA
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 94 15:35:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Re: Bon Appetit
Dave writes:
>Just wanted to let everyone know that we're not the only ones out there trying
>to educate the public. In the June 1994 issue of 'Bob Appetit' there's an
>article entitled "Bold Belgian Beers." It's interesting in the fact it gives
>the layman some very basic information on the various Belgian beers. Kind of
>refreshing to see. Anyway, check it out if you're interested (and don't get
>too
>upset when they say Lindemans is one of the "best" lambics--it's a start, at
>least).
Perhaps, but as many of us that can, should write to them and straighten-
out the editors. It should be pointed out, for example, that Lindemans
is very tasty, but not very traditional and that not all Lambics are
created equal. This, if for no other reason than to warn an unsuspecting buyer
that happens to come upon a Boon or Cantillon and expects it to be syrupy
sweet. Perhaps even a few letters would be published, further educating the
public.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 May 94 09:54:32 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: more references
Hi,
Over the weekend (Sat, LD #355) Rob Thomas provided a list of references on
lambic brewing. I've got a few to add to his list:
Microbiological aspects of spontaneous wort fermentation in the
production of lambic and gueuze, D. Van Oevelen, M. Spaepen,
P. timmermans, H. Verachtert, J. Inst. Brew., 1977, pp. 356-360
Fatty acids and esters produced during the spontaneous fermentation
of lambic and gueuze, M. Spaepen, D. Van Oevelen, H. Verachtert,
J. Inst. Brew., 1978, pp. 278-282
Esterase Activity in the genus Brettanomyces, M. Spaepen, H. Verachtert,
J. Inst. Brew., 1982, pp. 11-17
Identification of lambic superattenuating micro-organisms by the
use of selective antibiotics, H.M.C. Shantha Kumara, H. Verachtert,
J. Inst. Brew., 1991, pp. 181-185
Characteristics of Enterobacteriaceae involved in lambic brewing,
Ensaf Dawoud, PhD Thesis, Katholieke Universiteit te Leuven,
February 1987
Microbiology and biochemistry of lambic beer overattenuation,
H.M. Chandana Shantha Kumara, PhD Thesis, Katholieke Universiteit
te Leuven, November 1990
Dextrinases from lambic organisms: Brettanomyces lambicus and
Lactovacillus brevis isolation and characterization, Frank Maris,
PhD Thesis, Katholieke Universiteit te Leuven, 1990
(please excuse the format)
--Mike
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End of Lambic Digest
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