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Lambic Digest #0288
From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Mon Feb 28 03:11:59 1994
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Subject: Lambic Digest #288 (February 28, 1994)
Date: Mon, 28 Feb 1994 00:30:06 -0700
Lambic Digest #288 Mon 28 February 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
E. coli and what I said (Ed Hitchcock)
Casks... (Teddy Winstead)
Celis' revenge ("Phillip R. Seitz")
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 10:25:14 -0400
From: Ed Hitchcock <ECH at ac.dal.ca>
Subject: E. coli and what I said
Jim Liddil replied to my cautionary note:
>If one is going to brew lambic one has to forget all about the processes one
>goes thorugh making other varieties of beer and trust the force :-)
No, one has to keep all the other processes in mind, and uderstand
why they do or why they don't apply...
> ...Check out
>the idssertations and articles in Brewers Digest that have come out of Leuven.
>In the first few weeks a lambic does indeed contain lots of Hafnia, E. coli.
>klebsiella and other enteric bacteria.
Indeed. In fact, some of these enterics come from bat guano, which
someone mentioned here not long ago. But if you want to brew a pLambic
yourself, I would strongly reccommend staying away from E. coli, it can be
serious trouble.
> ...All these organisms are killed off in
>lambic due to the alcohol, low pH and total depeletion of glucose and most
>other fermentable matter.
Ahh, but you want them out BEFORE this. The enterics should be
done in by the Kloeckera and Saccharomyces. I was pointing out that in the
homebrew type situation, innoculating with enterics first (by accident) and
then with yeast, the enterics have ALWAYS come out ahead in my brewery.
> Various people have gotten PhDs studying this so
>don't take my word for it. I spoke to a micorbiologist who specializes in
>pathogenic disease and he doubted that klebsiella is just floating in the aair
>and must be coming from animal or human respiratory aersols. Also has it not
>been proven time and again that pathogenic bacteria can not survive in beer?
You don't need pathogenic bacteria to be alive to a) ruin your
beer, b) poison you. Think botulism...
>Also One needs to use the high hop rates of 5-6 lbs/barrel that tha lambic
>brewers use. Trust the Force, Ed :-) Besides these enterics produce acid
>which is part of the taste and flavor profile of lambic, they are our
>friends.
I fully recognize the contribution of enterics in true Lambics. I
am merely of the opinion that to reproduce the effect of tehse organisms in
the home brewery requires an awful lot more than trust in some mythical
magical force.
____________
Ed Hitchcock ech at ac.dal.ca | Oxymoron: Draft beer in bottles. |
Anatomy & Neurobiology | Pleonasm: Draft beer on tap. |
Dalhousie University, Halifax |___________________________________|
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Date: Sun, 27 Feb 1994 10:08:43 -0600 (CST)
From: winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu (Teddy Winstead)
Subject: Casks...
> I did this with the first cask and my current batch of pLambic has been in
> that cask for over 8 months and I don't think it tastes very much at all of
> Oak. I don't know if my treatment has anything to do with it or if it is
> just because it is French Oak and doesn't impart as much flavor as the
> American.
Terry Foster in his book "Pale Ale" (#1 in the Classic Beer Styles series)
STRESSES that English cask conditioned ale be cask conditioned in Polish
or German oak, because of the problem with tannin extraction from the wood.
"...only English, German, and Polish oak do not impart flavor in the beer.
American oak, in contrast is unsuitable, since the beer will leach out
various undesirable flavors from it."
Now, is French oak closer to English, German, and Polish oak or to American?
I would suspect that it's closer to the other European oaks, and I think
that I'm gonna get me one of them Frog casks. Probably a 5-10 gallon one,
but then I'll have to get more equipment to make bigger batches to make
better beer, to make more money, to get more equipment to make bigger batches
to make better beer... Where does it end!? Helllllllp..... ;-)
- --
Teddy Winstead "He that buys land buys many stones,
winstead%brauerei at cs.tulane.edu He that buys meat buys many bones,
winstead at cs.tulane.edu He that buys eggs buys many shells,
Computer Science Undergraduate He that buys good ale buys nothing else."
Fanatical Homebrewer -- John Ray, English Proverbs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Feb 94 17:03:24 -0400
From: "Phillip R. Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Celis' revenge
I'm sure most of you have heard about Pierre Celis' plans to market his
white beer in Belgium, in effect competing with his old brewery, the De
Kluis. I, for one, assumed that this was mostly talk and wouldn't
happen for some time. I was wrong.
A friend recently sent me an article about Celis White's debut in
Belgium. Due to import taxes the beer is being contract brewed at the
De Smedt brewery (Opwijk, Brabant, 40,000 hl annual production) and
marketed by the Sterkens brewery (Meer, Antwerpen, 8,600 hl annual
production). In addition to the white, the Pale Bock is also being
sold. Both beers are being brewed with American materials: winter
wheat from Luckenbach, Texas, Pacific Northwest hops, and (for the
Bock) American crystal malt. The article has slightly strange photo of
Celis and Stan Sterkens in cowboy hats and bolo ties, scarfing Celis products.
The article also reports that the Austin brewery has hit 10,000
hectoliters in annual production, and that it hopes for 15,000 this
year. Celis also mentions the Golden, which he calls (my translation):
"a blond [beer] adapted to American tastes, highly hopped with a dry
aftertaste." That's not how I would have described it, but...
Apparently Celis has a long-standing relationship with the De Smedt
brewery (it was founded in 1790, but I can't tell how old Pierre is :-)
They provided him with yeast and technical assistance when he was first
starting the De Kluis brewery.
Phil
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End of Lambic Digest
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