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Subject: Lambic Digest #300 (March 15, 1994)
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 1994 00:30:07 -0700
Lambic Digest #300 Tue 15 March 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Aeriation (Jim Busch)
Wheat flour in Wit and a question (Spencer.W.Thomas)
Liefmans cooperage ("Phillip R. Seitz")
Traditional Yeast Maintainence (Aaron Birenboim)
Care of a used cask (Mark Stickler)
Lambic Digest #299 (rg mail account)
Leifman's (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
One Night In Brussels (C.R. Saikley)
Brasserie Dupont (C.R. Saikley)
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Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 09:13:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Jim Busch <busch at daacdev1.stx.com>
Subject: Re: Aeriation
Ed writes:
> Subject: Wort aeration
>
> There has been some discussion about wort aeration, and lower aeration
> rates producing esters. Someone yesterday mentioned they thought Rajotte
> was wrong on that one too. I believe, if one reads carefully, "low"
> aeration rates mean forced aeration, versus the oxygenation with pure O2
> under pressure that large commercial breweries use. In other words, it is
> a true statement, but in beer terms, "Lower" aeration rates means "shake
> the bejeezes out of it" for home brewers.
I usually dont try to seperate my comments with respect to "professional"
technique or "homebrewers" methods. I think brewers who brew at home
can improve thier beers by learning how the pros do it, and where
practical, adapt the methods to the home.
I was implying direct oxygen into the fermenter. This is what I do.
Filtered air will work too, but at 20% O2 fraction, it is much less
efficient. I dont like the shake methods, a simple fish pump and
filter seems easy enough and are sold at various places.
I do agree that lower dissolved oxygen levels will increase esters,
they likely increase fusels too. What I dont believe is that "most
Belgian brewers use low amounts of DO". The yeast strain is the
dominating factor here. BTW, some of Rajottes numbers of DO are not
supported by other experiments, or literature.
Best,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 11:05:17 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: Wheat flour in Wit and a question
Ok, so I'll answer my own question (no responses, zip, none, nada).
Last night, I made this:
Wit Test
for 3 gallons
2.2 lbs British Pale malt (I had it on hand)
2.0 lbs Whole Wheat Pastry flour (organic, from local mill via food coop)
.25 lbs McCann's Quick Irish Oats
.5 oz EK Goldings plug (1992 crop) at 5% (originally), bittering
7g pulverized (coffee/spice grinder) bitter orange peel (from Frozen Wort)
10g ground (same grinder) coriander
Pre-mix "grains". Dough-in at 35C with 2 gallons water, squish out
lumps with hands after adding first gallon. 10 minute rest. Heat to
50C, rest 30 min. During this rest, test pH. pH high (5.8), so add
2g gypsum, pH drops to ~5.5. Heat to 65C, rest 1 hour (make dinner)
in oven heated to 170 and turned off. Raise to 70C, rest 1+ hour (eat
dinner) on stove top (drops to 63C by end). Raise to 82C for mash-out
(I *want* some starch haze). Sparge with acidified water (pH about 5)
to minimize tannin extraction. Collect 3 gallons at 1.046 (right on
target at 90% efficiency).
Boiled 1.5 hours, hops at T-60 minutes, orange at T-30, coriander at
T-15. Topped up to 3 gallons repeatedly during boil (with boiling
water). Got a nice "egg drop" hot break before adding hops.
The bottom line(s):
*** The sparge was VERY SLOW. I took a hydrometer sample at one
point, and it was running about 1ml/sec. I was not restricting
the flow in any fashion, either. This is in my slotted-copper-
pipe-manifold arrangement, too, which usually *never* sticks (and
it didn't stick, quite). Applying some suction by filling the
outflow hose with liquid so it would "siphon" speeded it up at the
end. I would NOT try this in a more conventional lauter tun.
*** I got full extraction without boiling the wheat.
*** The 2 hour mash was probably overkill. The "supernatant" (liquid
above the settled grain bed) was clear shortly into the second
mash, which I assume means I had achieved full conversion by then.
*** Flour does work, but if you ever have trouble sparging, you
probably don't want to use it.
And, a question: When do you add the orange peel? I put it in at
about 30 minutes from the end, figuring it probably needed some
boiling to extract the bitterness. But I'm afraid I lost some
aromatics this way (and this peel was very nicely aromatic). I put in
the coriander at 15 minutes from the end, which had worked well in my
last Wit. (For that one, I used fresh orange *zest*, and added it
after the boil.)
=S
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 10:53:24 -0400
From: "Phillip R. Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Liefmans cooperage
Mike Sharp comments:
> I've heard that others have tried the Leifman's strain and had
> results similar to what I'm seeing at the moment. I'm not going
> to write it off yet, but I'm beginning to _BELIEVE_ (note that
> word!) that this beer's character may be more dependent on the
> brewery's cooperage than their pitching yeast. The Felix is just
The only problem is, they don't have any. Everything is fermented in
stainless steel tanks. I've seen 'em; I've even sampled from 'em.
However I agree that where they get their character from is quite
mysterious, particularly under these circumstances.
One remaining option is that the sample we collected didn't contain all
the needed bugs. I'll defer to others for the specifics, but perhaps
some of these couldn't survive on the media we were using?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 10:32:36 MST
From: abirenbo at redwood.hac.com (Aaron Birenboim)
Subject: Traditional Yeast Maintainence
Mike, which old brun brewery did you say was still allowing their
mixed-culture yeast to continue to evolve?
Reguardless of the answer to this question... I'd like to ask...
Does anybody know anything about pre-pasteur yeast maintainence methods?
How does one use a mixed culture, and continue to "let it evolve"?
I have a feeling that there may be several breweries which do this.
My main clue is rojette's claim "There have been times when I've used
bacterially infected yeast with good results..." My guess is that he
was getting cultures or slurries from BREWERIES like this. People
who KNOW what they are doing, and are most likely fully aware that
their yest is "impure".
aaron
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 13:29:20 EST
From: Mark Stickler <mstickle at lvh.com>
Subject: Care of a used cask
I was fortunate enough to locate an old cask which a friend of mine's
younger brother used for wine making at one point. It is not obvious
to me that this is an oak cask. It seems to be a little "soft" to be
oak to me. Is there a way to tell and if it isn't oak is it okay to use?
Also, I haven't figured it out yet but I would say that it is at least
25 gallons and perhaps 30 or 35. It has a "bung" hole in the side/top
and a smaller hole on the end which has a old wooden and metal spigot.
What do I need to do to clean this thing and make it water tight (right
now it ain't)? How do you swell a barrell? Answers to these and any
additonal information you may have can be sent to mstickler at lvh.com. TIA.
Mark Stickler
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 1994 13:49:06 -0500 (EST)
From: rgmail at ekman.unh.edu (rg mail account)
Subject: Lambic Digest #299
First Mike informs us of:
>
> There are now 317 direct subscribers to this digest.
> This includes redistribution points for services
> like CompuServe.
>
> I'm _amazed_ that so many are interested in such an exotic style.
> ...
Exotic? How so?
> film forming yeast. I certainly won't rule out infection, but
> I don't think so (its been a long time since I've had one I
> didn't intend _and_ the beer hasn't gone 'south')
Intended infections...
> This was quite funky for some time. Its nose was almost enteric
> (fecal) at times, but this seems to have subsided and didn't carry
> through in the taste. Overall this is also a rather 'normal'
... beer is 'normal' because it doesn't smell like sh*t anymore...
> Something is still alive and kicking in this batch. Its still
... some unknown beast is alive and kicking in the beer, and this
a *good* thing...
and let's not forget to mention sour, lactic, acetic, horsey, ropiness,
cheesy hops, (there should be a lambic glossary). And of course, there's
the "biochemists nightmare" array of organisms.
Exotic? Yeah well maybe :-) Fascinating? Definitely.
Russ Gelinas
EOS
UNH
PS. Some may take this as heresy, but has anyone done any work on decreasing
the time from conception to drinkability in a lambic? I realize authenticity
demands years of aging, but there are some obvious benefits in a shorter
maturation.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Mar 94 19:50:00 GMT
From: korz at iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Leifman's
Mike writes:
I've heard that others have tried the Leifman's strain and had
results similar to what I'm seeing at the moment. I'm not going
to write it off yet, but I'm beginning to _BELIEVE_ (note that
word!) that this beer's character may be more dependent on the
brewery's cooperage than their pitching yeast.
Leifman's uses copper-lined open primaries and (stainless, I assume) steel
secondaries. There is no wood in the process. They do simmer the wort
overnight, which no doubt adds to the character of the beer, if that's
any help to you Goudenband fans (like me). Jackson says "The beer was
being pitched with a yeast that had some 'house' character, perhaps a dash
of lacto-bacillus [sic]..." so if you cleaned up the yeast, Mike, you
may be better off using the raw culture instead.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 12:32:59 PST
From: humphrey!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: One Night In Brussels
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
>Geez, it really burns me up when someone visits a place in Belgium
>before me! However, this is very interesting to hear. However, Rick
>Garvin bitches and moans uncontrollably whenever there's the least
>fusel or phenol molecule in my beer. What to do?
>C.R. also says of Rodenbach:
>as well. They were kind enough to give me a liter of dense slurry.
>Now I WILL have to kill you. Whose country is it, anyway!? :-)
Hey Phil,
If you liked my previous post, you'll love this one :-)
***********************************************************************
One Night in Brussels
It was a lengthy, restless trip. Flying east is always harder. Day turns
into night into day and night again. Twenty hours after leaving Berkeley,
I was finally settled in Brussels. I parked my car, got a room, and changed
some money, trying to ignore that the car came from InteRent, and the money
came from InterChange. At least I wasn't staying at InterHotel. Charged with
the excitement of the city, and spurred on by my hunger, I set out. It was
8:20 PM local time.
By 8:30, I arrived at T' Spinnekopke, well known in Brussels for its fine
food and beer. With no reservations on a Saturday night, I was told to
return at nine. The beer list included Cantillon, and I was looking forward
to my dinner. I wandered back towards Boulevard Anspach, looking for a warm
cozy spot to have my first beer and kill half an hour. Then I saw it. The
cafe was called Beer Street. What else could I do?
I entered to find 74 taps, the largest draft selection in Belgium. I soon
found myself sitting with the cafe's owner, a man of impressive stature
named Joel Pescheur. Joel did his best to ensure that I sampled all 74
beers. A tour of the cellars revealed the most sophisticated dispensing
system that I've ever seen. The pressure and temperature of each keg could
be independently adjusted. The computerized control system also accounted
for the diameter and length of the serving lines to get the pressure right.
After the tour, our discussion turned towards Belgium's beer renaissance.
The next thing I knew, Joel and his wife's family whisked me off to Brussels'
only brewpub, La Miroir. I rode with his Father and Mother-in-law.
La Miroir is well outside of Brussels proper, in the suburb of Jette. I
could tell we were at a brewpub right away. The life size neon brew kettles
on the exterior were my first clues. Inside, there were too many ferns and
pastels, but at least the beer list was tasteful. De Dolle Brouwers, Cantillon
and Slagmuylder were well represented. The two house beers were a well made
Wit, and a loosely interpreted Flanders Oud Bruin. In Belgium, brewing beers
of this complexity is merely the price of entry. Otherwise, no one notices.
For the first time in my life, I realized that it was relatively easy to
build a successful brewpub in the States.
A quick midnight tour revealed a fairly standard 10 hectoliter system, with
some serving tanks being installed. The coriander seeds and curacao orange
peels were in baggies below the tanks. They'd tried to put the brewery in
the middle of the pub, but local legislation put it against the wall.
We soon retreated to Beer Street, where Joel again demonstrated his warm
hospitality and obsession for perfection. Sated and exhausted, I tore myself
away. Wandering back towards the Grand Place, I finally got my dinner.
Showarmas and kebabs are the only way to eat cheap in Brussels. One thought
surfaced as I collapsed into bed and drifted off, "If I had to go home now,
it would all be worth it."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 94 15:33:22 PST
From: humphrey!cr at uunet.UU.NET (C.R. Saikley)
Subject: Brasserie Dupont
Greetings all,
Here's some more stuff from my trip to Belgium last year. It's been
published elsewhere, and therefore some of you have probably seen it
before. The bulk of you probably haven't, so I decided to post away.
CR
***********************************************************************
Brasserie Dupont - A Brewery with a Rich Past and a Promising Future
The marriage of farming and brewing is a logical one, which goes back
several millennia, and there are several traditional farmhouse breweries
still in operation in Belgium today. Farming is obviously a seasonal
activity, with long lulls in the cooler months. These lulls are the
perfect time to undertake malting and brewing. Making beer allows the
farm to remain productive in the winter, and also transforms the nutrients
in the grain into a less perishable form. Furthermore, in the days before
refrigeration, breweries were typically inactive in the summer months
anyway, and so the marriage is complete.
One such farmhouse brewery is the Brasserie Dupont, in the small village
of Tourpes, province of Hainaut. The brewery was founded in 1850, and was
purchased by the Dupont family in 1920. The story goes something like this:
Shortly after WWI, Louis Dupont saw greater opportunity and stability
overseas, and began making plans to move to Canada. His father was distressed
by this, and sought ways to entice him to stay in the homeland. Knowing
that Louis had an interest in brewing, his father bought him the brewery
and several local cafes. The ploy worked, and Louis stayed in Belgium. The
Dupont brewery is still family owned and operated to this day.
The brewery was never very large; its output hovered around 3000 hectoliters
annually until 1986. At that time there was a large government sponsored
program called Belgian Beer Year, and the Brasserie Dupont has been growing
steadily ever since. Production in 1992 was 5500 hectoliters, and 93's was
6000. Production can grow to 9000 hectoliters with their present equipment.
There are currently seven employees.
The brew house holds a 55 hectoliter system with three vessels - a mash tun,
lauter tun, and brew kettle. A typical brew session goes as follows : The
temperature in the mash tun is raised slowly from 45C to 72C, followed by
sparging and a 1 1/2 hour boil. Generous amounts of Styrian Goldings and
Kent Goldings pellets are added at the beginning of the boil, and 15 minutes
before completion. Wort is then centrifuged and force cooled down to a 12C
pitching temperature. After primary fermentation, the temperature is dropped
down to 5o C for secondary. The cool temperature also promotes yeast
flocculation. The beer is bottled before fermentation is complete, so that
the unfermented sugars provide carbonation. There is a certain amount of
variability in the fermentation, and some batches are dosed with sugar to
reestablish consistency before bottling. A different strain of yeast is
pitched at bottling time. The beer is then warm conditioned at 25C for six
to eight weeks. It may be consumed immediately upon release, but will improve
with age.
There are seven beers produced, ranging from the very light Bio legere, to a
rich hearty Christmas beer. At only 3.5% alcohol by volume (2.8% by weight),
Bio legere is Dupont's entrant into the light beer market. Given the
limitations of that style, it is an exceptional beer with a strong yeasty/
estery aroma and a sharp hoppiness.
In the middle of the range is Saison Dupont, which is now being exported to
the US. The Saison style is making a bit of a comeback in Belgium, and much
of Dupont's growth is attributed to the success of this beer. The key to
this style is a balance which is difficult to achieve, and exemplified by
Dupont. This beer was originally produced in the winter for consumption
throughout the summer. As such, it must be hearty enough to age gracefully,
yet still remain refreshing on a hot day. Saison Dupont has the same yeasty
and hoppy character Bio legere, with a substantial base of malt.
Near the high end of the scale is my personal favorite, Moinette Blond.
Weighing in at a hefty 8.5 % alcohol by volume, Moinette Blond is a big,
full, and round beer with Dupont's signature yeasty estery character. The
generous hop charge is more subdued in the presence of a pronounced malt
sweetness.
The Christmas beer has the rather unwieldy name of Avec les Bons Voeux de
la Brasserie Dupont. It's a dark, rich and malty beer at 9.5% alcohol by volume,
which will keep for a long time. The sample I tasted had been in the bottle
for three months. It was delicious, but still quite young. This beer was
first brewed 10 years ago as a gift for the Dupont family's friends and
customers. It was so well liked that it appeared on many wish lists the
following year, and is now an annual tradition.
In addition to these four beers, there is a Moinette dark, and two all organic
beers. Achieving consistency in the organic beers has proven difficult, largely
because of limited hop availability. Brasserie Dupont plans to address this
in the true spirit of a farmhouse brewery by growing their own hops.
The future of Brasserie Dupont is personified in the young and energetic Mr.
Dedeycjer, a direct descendant of Louis Dupont. Mr. Dedeycjer began working
in the brewery at the age of 10, scrubbing out the interior of tanks which
he was the only one small enough to fit into. Perhaps this is why the brewery
now has a modern clean-in-place system.
Mr. Dedeycjer has five years of formal education in chemical engineering, and
two years in brewing science. This strong academic background coupled with
the practical experience of growing up in a brewery gives him a precocious
understanding of all aspects of brewing operations. When he eventually takes
the helm of the brewery from his uncle, it will surely continue to prosper.
In early 1994, Brasserie Dupont will take on its eighth employee, an even
younger member of the family who is trained in microbiology. He will begin
by working with their yeast strain, attempting to realize more consistent
fermentations.
The future of Brasserie Dupont looks very promising. With a growing demand
for their exceptional products, and a new generation of talented brewers,
this is one traditional brewery with a future as bright as its past.
------------------------------
End of Lambic Digest
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