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From: lambic-request at longs.lance.colostate.edu (subscription requests only - do not post here)
To: lambic at longs.lance.colostate.edu
Subject: Lambic Digest #340 (May 11, 1994)
Date: Wed, 11 May 1994 00:30:09 -0600
Lambic Digest #340 Wed 11 May 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Re: Used Wine Barrels (Rick Garvin (703-761-6630))
Oud Bruin Recipes (Mark Stickler)
mail order your lambic (Michael Sharp)
Boon Mariage Parfait Kriek (1983) (Michael Sharp)
mail order beer(?) (Michael Sharp)
I'm taking a few days off (Michael Sharp)
Answers for a 'newbie' (Michael Sharp)
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Date: Tue, 10 May 1994 08:06:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: rgarvin at btg.com (Rick Garvin (703-761-6630))
Subject: Re: Used Wine Barrels
> I have long been tempted by similar prices on used wine barrels.
> I've always resisted because you can't move a 55gal barrel.
> You can't lift it to rack into bottles, etc. unless you have a
> pallete (sp?) jack. Storage space is also a problem...
John Hallberg, the brewer at Richbrau in Richmond Va, has utilized used
50 gallon French Oak casks at his brewpub. These had been used for red
wine and were a bright deep purple.
John used these to age a Barley Wine that turned out very nice.
Interesting wine characters came through with a bit of oak and wine
tannin. This is after a caustic soda rinse.
Would I consider getting and using a 55 gallon barrel. Maybe at
somebody's house. Let's see... Phil Seitz's town house is too small to
brew 5 gallon batches in. Jim Busch? Yes! He already does one barrel
batches!! Whaddya say Jim?
Cheers, Rick
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 16:14:26 EDT
From: Mark Stickler <mstickle at lvh.com>
Subject: Oud Bruin Recipes
An update and a request:
My 20 gals of pLambiek seem to be doing fine after nearly 3 months
in the secondary (4 5-gal batches in 4 separate 7-gal glass carboys).
Each has what I asumme to be a pellicle "growing" on the surface.
So far I have pitched a Brett Lambusces (sp), a Brett Bruxelles,
a Pedio Cervasis and the dregs of a Boon Gueze & Kriek. Looking
forward to add fruit this summer.
Also, now have 4 five gal batches of "Hoegaarden" going. Ended up using
4 lbs Klages, 3.5 lbs UNMALTED wheat and 1 lb Oats per batch. Also used
Bitter Orange Peels, Corriander, a Wit Yeast and a Lactobacillius
delbruckii culture. So far so good. I'll report the results in a month
or so when its ready to drink.
Now the request. I'd like to make two Oud Bruin's next. I figure a
"Goudenband" Sour Brown Ale and a "Rodenbach" Grand Cru using the
same Flanders Brown Yeast Culture. I'm looking for suggestions on
Grain Bill, Hop Schedule and the use of Oak Chips in the Rodenbach.
Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated otherwise I'll just use
Rajotte's Oud Bruin recipe for both and just add Oak chips to the
Rodenbach. TIA.
Mark Stickler
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 13:51:25 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: mail order your lambic
Hi,
I've just been told that there is a new way for you to get _full_cases_
of VanBerg DeWulf products via mail order. I'm not sure if other
products are offered. The main intent of this service is to get
exotic (wierd? 8-) ) beer to people who don't have a local distributor.
This isn't a Beers Across America subscription service.
I don't know anything more than that. For more info:
Microbrews of Belgium & France
1400 Mark St.
Elk Grove, IL 60007
1-800-974-2337
FOR CA RESIDENTS: Thanks to our wonderful state, these folks will _NOT_ ship
to us. We'll have to keep runnin' the border & worryin' about the revenuers.
FWIW, I don't have any stake in this company or VBDW. I'm posting this
as a service to those who don't have other means of obtaining their
selection of beers.
--Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 13:57:08 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: Boon Mariage Parfait Kriek (1983)
Hi,
Time to squash a rumor. The Boon Mariage Parfait Kriek (not to be
confused with the recently imported '86 MP framboise) is not yet
available and won't be anytime in the immediate future. The rumor
that it will be in NY in a week or two isn't true (according to
Don Feinberg). Don says "The only '83 MP kriek thats in NY is the
single bottle in my basement. Frank won't release this unless he
can clean up the bottles and make them more presentable first."
[Apparently after sitting around for 10+ years they're in less
than pleasing to the eye. I tried to stress that we didn't care
what they look like just what they taste like, but my impression
is that Frank wants to be anal-retentive.]
Don _is_ working on getting Frank Boon to do this, but it isn't
anywhere near a done-deal.
Yours in rumor service,
--Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 14:08:43 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: mail order beer(?)
Hi,
Here is another _potential_ source for mail ordering interesting beer.
I'm not _sure_ what their restrictions are (i.e. they may not ship to
states like CA with silly ABCCs) if any. You're on your own to
find out about this.
Federal Wine & Sprits
somewhere
Boston, MA
(617)367-8605
ask for Martin
No, I don't get advertising fees or kickbacks out of this.
--Mike
p.s. I hope more shops pop up that are willing to do this. Of course this
might attract the attention of some BATF-er who will feel the need to
surround the store and then... I wonder what the real word on
interstate shipping is -- I've heard too many different versions.
p.p.s. I've heard that they charge $10 for the shipping box, but its
returnable for a $6 refund & that its _very_ well designed to
protect your beer/wine from the shipper. Actualy shipping costs
with depend on wieght of course.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 14:22:46 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: I'm taking a few days off
Hi,
Yes, I know my turn-around on lambic-request messages isn't always quick,
but they're going to be even less quick for a few days. I'm going to be
off the net for a few days. (this also means that any t-shirt
related e-mail won't get processed either.) When I'm back "on" next Monday
everything will be processed on a "first come, first served" basis.
--Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 May 94 14:55:15 PDT
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: Answers for a 'newbie'
Hi,
I was asked the following questions in private e-mail.
I thought I'd put the answers here so others may benefit.
(and to perhaps entice the person asking into posting to the list)
--Mike
> 1. I'm going to use 6.8 # pale Belgian malt and 3.3 # raw soft white wheat.
> Any ideas on crushing the wheat? I have access to a fixed (0.060) malt
> mill, but I don't think this is fine enough for the wheat.
You'll need to work this out yourself -- I don't have a roller mill so I
can't tell you what gap is appropriate. I do seem to remember hearing
0.040" is necessary, but this could just as well be the thickness of the
sheetmetal on my car...
> 2. Is the statement about using 4 oz of aged hops in a 5 gal recipe in
> the FAQ correct? I have some old (1.5 yr) hops that I'm "aging" by
> putting them in a zip-loc bag and filling it with 100% oxygen. I
> think this should accomplish the necessary oxidation of the alpha
> acids. What do you think of this method?
The hop levels presented in Guinard are very low IMHO. (I assume thats
why the question came up.) Figure 5-6 times the amount you would usually
use.
As far as your aging technique goes, I'm not convinced this will do it.
You want little to no hop bitterness left after the aging. You may want
to consider Martin Lodahl's 'quick aging' technique -- i.e. bake them
in the oven on a low setting. (hint: do it when your S.O./roommates/whatever
aren't around if he/she/it/they don't like the smell of hops)
> 3. In the recipes in the FAQ, I saw no mention of cooking the raw wheat
> before mashing (maybe because no one used raw wheat, I don't remember).
> Should I perform this step as described in Guinard's book?
I'll defer to Guinard, but _NOT_ what is in the recipe section. Check out
the chapter on the traditional mashing method & go from there. (I have
a feeling that his recipes where heavily modified by the editor, but I
don't know) I don't remember any precooking of the wheat in the
'traditional' approach, but I may be wrong.
In the past I've used flaked wheat. (so sue me for not being 100%
accurate)
> 4. What do you think about the two strains of Brettanomyces? Are both
> necessary? What is the difference of their actions (flavors)?
No, you don't need both. I have yet to detect a difference between various
strains that would let me say "B. lambicus always has X while B. bruxellenesis
has Y". You won't be able to tell between the two unless you do some
carbon assimilation tests. Don't worry about which one you use.
> 5. Finally, I am planning to use cranberries (wine fruit base 96 oz can)
> during secondary fermentation. The guy at the shop said one of his
> buddies did this previously and ended up with a nicely flavored but
> too sour (even for lambic) flavor due to the extreme acidity of the
> cranberries. He suggested adding lactose before bottling. Any comments?
I can believe what the 'guy at the shop' said. As an ex-New Englander I
can attest to the strong tart flavor of cranberries. If you must have
a cranberry lambic (shudder -- sorry its Kock that does it to me, not your
beer in specific) I'd use fresh/frozen cranberries and add them to taste.
You've got a long time to think about what fruit you want to add (if any)
because you generally don't add it until a year after the fermentation
starts.
If it where up to me I'd avoid cranberries all together and work with
fruits that are used in commercial lambics. (i.e. sour cherries,
raspberries, or currants) (ok, and _maybe_ peaches) Why? Then you
have a point of comparison. How are you going to tell if you're in the
right ballpark with a cranberry lambic? I've always felt its best to
get the basic technique down before getting carried away with the
possibilities.
--Mike
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End of Lambic Digest
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