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Lambic Digest #0296
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Subject: Lambic Digest #296 (March 10, 1994)
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 1994 08:53:25 -0700
Lambic Digest #296 Thu 10 March 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
My experience with Wyeast Belgian Ale Yeast and dried orange peel (Keith MacNeal 09-Mar-1994 1415)
Various ("Phillip Seitz")
More stuff ("Phillip Seitz")
high fermentation temps (Spencer.W.Thomas)
April Brickskeller beer tasting ("Phillip Seitz")
All sorts of subjects (as usual I can't keep my mouth shut) (Michael Sharp)
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Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 14:18:27 EST
From: Keith MacNeal 09-Mar-1994 1415 <macneal at pate.enet.dec.com>
Subject: My experience with Wyeast Belgian Ale Yeast and dried orange peel
For what it's worth, I made an attempt at a Belgian Wit last summer.
I used Wyeast Belgian Ale yeast and "dry spiced" with coriander and dried
orange peel from the spice section of the local supermarket. I noticed
no "chemical soup" flavors, nor ham odors. I don't believe fermentation
temp. ever exceeded 68 deg.F.
Was it just me, or did anyone else get a half dozen of the same mail message
rebutting Phil's how-to-bru?
Keith MacNeal
Digital Equipment Corp.
Hudson, MA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 15:36:37 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: Various
Nice to see things have been stirred up a bit! Here are a few comments:
Rick Garvin notes:
>The HWBTA National went this past weekend as Phil noted. Phil Seitz,
>Scott Bickham, David Ruggerio and Debra Nathanson were the judges. I was
Just for the record, Scott Bickham (who took third place) did NOT judge
this category--the fourth judge was Bill Szymczak (who took BOS).
Rick also says:
>The second place Wit by Mark Groshek had too much coriander. Again, a
>woinderful beer.
IMHO it didn't have ENOUGH coriander!
>The first place Dubbel by Andy Anderson tasted just like a beer made
>with La Chouffe yeast always does. Tasty, but too much fusel. At BOS the
>fusel was the downfall of this beer.
Rick thinks EVERY beer has too much fusel!
Mike Sharp comments on our upcoming Belgian contest:
>Just a thought. Seriously consider relaxing the 12oz brown bottle requirement.
>The addition of a green/brown punted split with a cork would really help
>some of us (ok, maybe I'm the only purist?).
At the AWHBTA nobody was thrown out (that I'm aware of) for having
non-standard bottles, and there were plenty of them. While I don't
want to encourage this, it's not something that I've seen people get
trashed for. Of course, if you're going to offer what LOOKs like a
great lambic, you'd BETTER follow up with the contents!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 15:46:33 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: More stuff
Conn Copas (whom I didn't know reads Lambic Digest) writes:
>I don't personally rate doubles as that great a challenge. The yeast is not as
>idiosyncratic as with some other styles, and the flavour is robust enough that
>it will mask minor mistakes. It seems to me a question of getting the right
>combination of dark malts, dark sugar, and boil conditions. OK, so the wisdom
>isn't in writing yet, but I'm sure us net brewers could converge on
>something fairly rapidly.
Andy Anderson has promised to send in his winning recipe.
He also asks:
>PS: I take it that you didn't encounter any Saisons?
First, they're not an AHA category, so that slows things down. Second,
I honestly defy anyone to differentiate a Saison from a strong ale
blindfolded. It's true that this is a term that's used on a number of
Belgian ales, but IMHO they don't have much in common. I'm not so sure
that Michael Jackson is so much wrong on this one as just too late.
Jim Liddil asks:
>But don't some breweries condition at warm temps or is this just more Jackson
>mythology?
The only thing I can contribute here is that the Binchoise brewery has
a special heated room for conditioning their beer; the temp is a steady
70 degrees (the rest of the place if f#$% at cold!). The Caracole
brewery conditions its beer in the proprietor's mother-in-law's
garage. Generally, heating is always necessary to reach 70F in
Belgium, and this costs money. I haven't seen anybody spending it
there for this purpose.
Phil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 15:25:08 EST
From: Spencer.W.Thomas at med.umich.edu
Subject: high fermentation temps
FWIW, we have it straight from Celis's mouth (on at least one
occasion) that warm fermentation temps are used for (some) Belgian
ales. I note also that Celis's "white" yeast will not ferment well at
low temperatures (quote: "The yeast, she goes to sleep.") He
recommended 22C for this yeast.
(This my memory of his remarks, filtered through Dan McConnell, who
chatted with him about yeast at the AHA National Judging in Chicago
last year. I particularly remember the comments about the white
yeast, because I had just prematurely bottled a wit made with
(allegedly) that yeast, and fermented cool.)
=S
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Mar 94 16:29:59 -0400
From: "Phillip Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com>
Subject: April Brickskeller beer tasting
The April beer tasting at the Brickskeller in Washington, D.C.
traditionally focuses on Belgian beers. It also sells out, even with a
big room and three nights with the same program.
This year's program will be sometime around April 15, and will feature
Chris Herteleer (sp?), the brewmaster of the De Dolle Brewery in Esen,
West Flanders. These are the people who make Oerbier, Arabier, Bos
Keun and Stille Nacht. I'm sure there'll be lots of their beer available.
This is actually a repeat program from several years ago. At the time
the Brickskeller was importing the De Dolle beers, and they were only
available in the District of Columbia. I hear they now have a wider
distribution.
People who want more information can call the Brickskeller at 202-293-1885.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 94 18:59:24 PST
From: msharp at Synopsys.COM (Michael Sharp)
Subject: All sorts of subjects (as usual I can't keep my mouth shut)
VOLKER <radavfs at ube.ub.umd.edu> writes:
> Subject: Syrup question
>
> Hi folks
> A friend who has made several fine batches of pLambic but who has
> no net access asked me to gather some net.wisdom for him.
> He is looking for a source for raspberry syrup - he has had great success
> with krieks, but wants to move into framboises. Every place he has checked
> here in Baltimore has stuff that is fortified with apple juice only.
>
> Any ideas or addresses out there?
Why syrup? I've successfully used frozen raspberries in all of my
framboise so far. Frozen raspberries are easy to find.
*****************
pec at tmc.astm.cmri.cmu.edu (Philip Cutone) writes:
> Subject: Re: Lambic Digest #293 (March 07, 1994)
>
>
> Since there has been talk of chimey, i thought i'd ask.
>
> Chimey adds a bit of yeast to the bottle before final bottling. they
> say so on the bottle. Am i to assume that there is a good chance of
> there being active cultures in the bottle. i thought most drinks need
> to be free from little beasties before allowable import. Does FDA
> consider yeast an allowable food product?
It would seem so -- there are lots of bottle conditioned beers imported to the
U.S.
> Anyone know the charactoristics of the yeast? Top/bottom (presume
> bottom) and if its good for anything other than beer. i'd like to
> make some mead/kvass/wine...
Top fermenter.
Oh no! Take cover! Someone wants to make Kvass! We don't want none of those
wierd foreign potables around here. 8-) (you're in the SCA, aren't you?)
I personally believe it would make a _mighty_ wierd mead; you milage may vary.
Please feel free to ignore me & try it. I wouldn't do it expecting to win
the national's traditional mead category though.
FWIW, the SCA has _much_ better prizes for their competitions (or did, its been
more than a few years since I last checked). Once I won three silver platters,
once I one a set of wine classes and a nice decanter. I know I got others but
they escape my memory. _much_ better, IMHO, than a ribbon.
******************
RON.admin at admin.creol.ucf.edu (RON) writes:
> Subject: timing of beasts???
>
> Couple of questions to the net from a first time p-Lambic brewer....
>
> - Guinard suggests pitching P. Cerevisiae at one time and the Brett. afterwards.
> In the Lambic FAQ Al suggests doing a natural pitching all at one time.
> Whats up with that????
There isn't a write or wrong way of doing it. J-X is trying to approximate the
'normal' population growth curves by pitching at certain times, the other way
is to pitch everything and let the bugs figure it out themselves. I _feel_
that either way is a crap shoot.
> - Simulating casking with some oak chips - how much and how to prepare????
The cask is more for its oxygen transfer characteristics than to impart an
oaky flavor. You won't get the oxygen transfer with chips.
> - Having trouble finding somewhere in the southeast (US) that has or can
> special order the P. Cerevisiae culture from GWKent. Nobody stocks it
> regularly.
Thats good and bad. Good in that if you special order it will be fresh.
Bad in that you have to special order & wait for it to arrive.
> I would like to pitch in the near future and was wondering about sending
> them through the mail (heat). Its already in the mid 80's in the afternoon
> here in Central Florida - coldest winter in a long time.
Its as much a problem with these cultures as with any other yeast culture
you may order.
********************
"Jack D. Hill" <jdhill at BBN.COM> writes:
> Subject: Apologies
accepted (of course).
********************
Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL at AZCC.Arizona.EDU> writes:
> Also can anyone provide me information on Artevelde belgian ale. The only
> reference I found is in Rajotte's book.
I had one once. It came in a bottle with a while label (white bottle too?)
with a palace on it. (I think) This probably wasn't what you where looking
for though, huh?
*******************
"Phillip R. Seitz" <p00644 at psilink.com> writes:
> Subject: Travel information for Belgium
Thanks for the invaluable info. I'm sure I'm speaking for everyone when I say
there are certain times you don't want to go looking for change. 8-)
--Mike
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End of Lambic Digest
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