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Lambic Digest #0292
From postmaster at longs.lance.colostate.edu Fri Mar 4 03:06:53 1994
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Subject: Lambic Digest #292 (March 04, 1994)
Date: Fri, 4 Mar 1994 00:30:09 -0700
Lambic Digest #292 Fri 04 March 1994
Forum on Lambic Beers (and other Belgian beer styles)
Mike Sharp, Digest Coordinator
Contents:
Use of oak substitutes ("Kieran O'Connor")
living on the edge (Marc de Jonge)
another nit speaks ("Daniel F McConnell")
another nit speaks
Westmalle Yeast ("Norman Dickenson")
Still on Candi (Jeff Frane)
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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 06:30:07 -0500 (EST)
From: "Kieran O'Connor" <koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: Use of oak substitutes
Hi
Im a reader of the digest--but not a lambic brewer. I noted an article
in the NY Times regarding the use of Oak and oak substitutes for wine
making in an article--and thought some of you folks might be interesed.
it was in Wednesday, March 2, 1994's NY Times. Section "C", the living
Section, page C10 under the banner "Wine Talk."
FWIW
Kieran O'Connor
E-Mail Address: koconnor at mailbox.syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA
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Date: Thu, 3 Mar 94 13:21:42 +0100
From: dejonge at tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
Subject: living on the edge
In the last digest Jim Liddil wrote:
> Has anyone out there ever cooled the wort overnight and
> then tasted it at 2-3 months
Yes, and at 6 months.
Fermentation took about 5 days to get really going.
It started to develop slimy strands of bacteria after two months, which
dissapeared at 4-5 months, leaving a clear beer.
The end result was not as bad as I had been led to believe (I'm not saying
it was particularly good either):
Sour, estery, not extremely dry (OG 1055 FG 1011), a bit like an old Orval
or Vieille Provision by Dupont, with an additional moldy (blue cheese
like) flavour in the finish.
This was an small accidental batch (I had about 4 litres of wort left, after
breaking the large bottle...). The end result was both good and bad enough I
decided to try making lambics.
> and gotten sick?
No, I've always been like this.
> Enquring minds want to know?
do they? (EMWTN...)
> And aren't E. coli relatively intolerant to low pH and alcohol over 2%?
Either that, or I'm relatively tolerant to E. Coli.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Marc de Jonge dejonge at geof.ruu.nl
Utrecht University, Geophysics dept, Utrecht, the Netherlands
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
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Date: 3 Mar 1994 11:11:25 -0500
From: "Daniel F McConnell" <Daniel_F_McConnell at mailgw.surg.med.umich.edu>
Subject: another nit speaks
Subject: another nit speaks
Fellow Wit watchers:
Watching with interest the discussion, now I feel compelled to add my
$.04 (that's two data points at $.02 each).
>% cause serious illness if a sample is taken at say, 2-3 months. There are a
>% gazillion strains of E. coli, and some are very unpleasant indeed.
>An excellent point. I would plan to micorscopically test the wort first prior
>to tasting I think. Has anyone out there ever cooled the wort overnight and
>then tasted it at 2-3 months and gotten sick? Enquring minds want to know?
I have been doing some spontaneous fermentation experiments. These two
batches were left to cool uncovered overnight in my garage (The Huron River
Valley Appellation of Michigan) and allowed to ferment with no additional
cultures. The latest was last October. It fermented after a 10 day lag. The
last time I tasted it was february, but I tried it in Jan. too (3 months).
Each
time I pulled out about 4 oz and drank the whole sample. They are not very
pleasant, not sour (yet), but similar to beer that *I* made in 1980 and not
dissimilar to beers (actually better) that I have sampled in competitions!
It just tastes like infected homebrew.
I did not get sick, maybe I'm lucky, maybe my wife is correct when she
claims that I can eat anything.
DanMcC
------------------------------
Date: 3 Mar 1994 09:08:41 -0500
From: "Norman Dickenson" <norman.dickenson at Sonoma.EDU>
Subject: Westmalle Yeast
REGARDING Westmalle Yeast
Al writes:
<Have you had success with this yeast in the past? I've read that they
<use a bottling yeast which is very unattenuative. Did you get the yeast
from a bottle or did you get it from the brewery?>
Very perceptive reading retention! I wish I had read that before I used
the Westmalle yeast. Jackson, in his Belgian book states that the
brewery uses the same yeast for primary fermentation and for bottling
leading me to believe that it would fully attenuate. I pitched a very
liberal amount of actively working culture and had a vigorous
fermentation 18 hours later in two very high gravity subsets
(1.099 and 1.077). Both vigorously fermented for three days, then
abruptly lost their karusen head and slowed down to one airlock tick
every 10 seconds. I took gravity readings and each had dropped
only about 25 gravity points!!!!! This experience might support the
idea that it is a very unattenuative bottling yeast. I am not too keen
on the idea of ending up with 10 gal of pancake syrup and will be
culturing up some Chimay yeast to pitch in an attempt to salvage
the situation. Anybody out there have any good ideas? I obtained the
yeast as an encapsulated pure culture purchased from a small yeast
firm in a Southern state. It was represented as being cultured from
a bottle.
-Norman-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 1994 09:18:38 -0800 (PST)
From: gummitch at teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Still on Candi
> From: dejonge at tekserv.geof.ruu.nl (Marc de Jonge)
> Subject: Candi sugar again
>
> There is a flavour effect but that's not the only reason to add Candi.
> The amounts found in some Belgian beers have a strong effect on final
> gravity, body and mouthfeel: I expect an all-malt version of say Rochefort 10,
> coloured with only caramel malts, would serve better as pancake syrup.
>
> > I think that
> > sensitive, judicious use of Belgian caramel malts (and especially
> > Special B) is far more critical.
> For the flavour I agree, but not for the overall character of the beer.
>
Lest I be thought a complete buffoon, I want to acknowledge Marc's
comments about utilizing sugar -- I had no intention of suggesting that
the sought-after character could be achieved without using sugar. I was
simply dealing with some of the specific assertions made about color and
flavor contributions that I viewed as disinformation.
Having brewed several high-gravity beers that utilized a substantial
fraction of non-malt sugars, I *know* that this is essential. Maybe not
pancake syrup, but certainly you'd end up with barleywine. I've also
come to the conclusion that Jackson(?) is correct in asserting that the
sugar has an effect on the sort of head that is formed, and that it is
clearly different from the head thrown by an all-malt beer.
- --Jeff
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End of Lambic Digest
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