Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Mead Lovers Digest #1587
Subject: Mead Lover's Digest #1587, 24 May 2012
From: mead-request@talisman.com
Mead Lover's Digest #1587 24 May 2012
Mead Discussion Forum
Contents:
Re. Bulk Honey (David Houseman)
RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1586, 21 May 2012 ("Leo Knisely")
Bulk Honey (Mama Wolf)
Re: Bulk Honey (stencil)
Re: Help with translation - old English ("Bill Pierce")
Re: Bulk Honey ("Dave Polaschek")
RE: Bulk Honey ("mail-box")
Bulk Honey & Yeasts (Alex Flinsch)
Re: MLD #1586, 21 May 2012 (arthur_torrey@comcast.net)
Updating mead recipe ("Spencer W. Thomas")
NOTE: Digest appears whenever there is enough material to send one.
Send ONLY articles for the digest to mead@talisman.com.
Use mead-request@talisman.com for [un]subscribe and admin requests.
Digest archives and FAQ are available at www.talisman.com/mead#Archives
A searchable archive is at http://www.gotmead.com/mldarchives.html
Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re. Bulk Honey
From: David Houseman <david.houseman@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 11:07:52 -0500 (CDT)
Yes, I've bought bulk honey from Dutch Gold, Lancaster, PA. Good prices.
Good variety. Honey was excellent. Of course this will change year
to year and season to season. My favorite mead yeast is dry packets of
Cote de Blanc, a white wine yeast.
David Houseman
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Mead Lover's Digest #1586, 21 May 2012
From: "Leo Knisely" <leoknisely@mediacombb.net>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 11:20:55 -0500
I buy is 5-gallon buckets and I get them from the Amish that live within 20
miles of me and I have great success using and storing.
As to yeast I use d-47 most often
Leo Knisely
>>Contents:
>>Bulk Honey (Robert Lewis)
>>Subject: Bulk Honey
>>From: Robert Lewis <mazerrob@gmail.com>
>>Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:02:38 -0400
>>I just wanted to know if anyone out there has bought honey in bulk, say 5
>>gallon buckets, or however it's shipped.
>>but i am curious to know peoples favorite yeasts for meads.
------------------------------
Subject: Bulk Honey
From: Mama Wolf <rashley731@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 12:34:58 -0400 (EDT)
Where do you live?
Miller's Honey in Colton, Ca (soCal) is an hour's drive for me and I buy
by the 5 gallon buckets at their warehouse. I can't manage a 55 gallon
drum but they sell those too. There is also a place in South Central Los
Angeles called the Los Angeles Honey Co. that sells by the 5 gallon bucket
or 55 gallon drum, if you don't mind driving into South Central L.A. (hint,
go very early in the morning as the morlocks are sleeping).
I once had to ship a 5 gallon bucket or orange blossom honey from there to
Denver, CO. I think the cost of buying it and shipping it came out to close
the same as what it would have cost the gentle in Denver to buy it there,
but he wanted California orange blossom honey and was willing to pay for
it. I shipped FedEx to his office--shipping to a business is a bit cheaper
than to a home. But that was 5 years ago.
~Inga
White Wolf Meadery
Semidomesticus, on a good day.
"In principio creavit Deus terrum et caelum.
In principio creavit Deus hominum, in celebratio imago,
et creavit Deus Lupo, in perpetuii cantieri praesus."
.."quidquid Latine sit altum viditur.."
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bulk Honey
From: stencil <etcs.ret@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:04:36 -0400
On Mon, 21 May 2012 09:40:35 -0600 (MDT),=20
in Mead Lover's Digest #1586 =20
Robert Lewis wrote:
>I just wanted to know if anyone out there has bought honey in bulk, say 5
>gallon buckets, or however it's shipped. Honey prices have put a bit of
>a damper on my mead making of late, and i have read that honey, so long
>as it is stored properly, keeps for a very very long time. I suppose i
>could do a google search for bulk honey, but i would welcome any first
>hand experiences.
<http://www.dutchgoldhoney.com/bulk-honey>
works for me; I have seen occasional references here on
MLD to honey of doubtful origin, and I would presume that if
anyone were to try sneaking in goods from the asteroid belt
it would be an outfit like this that deals in pallet loads.
But in the eight or nine years I've been buying this honey,
60 lbs at a whack, I've noticed no ill effects,
physiologically or economically.
gds, stencil
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Help with translation - old English
From: "Bill Pierce" <BillPierce@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:54:24 -0400
I can probably help with the translation of the 1718 document on meadmaking
that Greg asks about. I am a teacher of English as a second or foreign
language, and Greg would certainly be one of my higher level students in
terms of his English skills.
True Old English is a language from more than 1000 years ago that is almost
totally unrecognizable to those who know modern English. Its closest cousin
today would be modern Icelandic. Most modern native English readers can
deal with the passage from 1718, although after nearly 300 years it seems
very quaint, and a good dictionary would be helpful.
Anyway, let's see if I can render it into simpler 21st century English.
"How to make English canary (a sweet white wine from Spain and Portugal)
that is as good as the best Spanish wines:
"120 pounds (54 kg) of honey will make a barrel (136 liters) of very good
mead. If you make it from clear honey, the best way is to use 4 pounds (1.8
kg) per gallon (4.5 liters) of water. Adjust the quantity based on the size
of your fermenter or the amount of honey. Pour the honey and water into a
pot, boil and skim off what collects on top. Strain the boiled honey and
water through a cloth bag or a cone made from a piece of the skin of a swan.
When it has cooled, pour it into the fermenter, place in storage and let it
sit until it is clear and ready to drink. The time will vary with the
weather and the season. This will make one of the best wines, as well as
one of the healthiest drinks in the world, which could be used in posset (a
drink made from heated milk and wine or ale). It would be impossible to
tell if the posset you made is from your own mead or from canary.
"This is for mead made from clear honey. You can also make it from the
liquid used to wash honeycombs, or honeycombs that are dissolved in warm
water thick enough so that a raw egg will sit on top of the liquid and not
spread too far (this is a crude test for the specific gravity). But you
must be very careful to strain out any pieces of bees as well as beebread,
the yellow substance that fills some of the cells in the honeycomb. These
would give the mead a bad taste. Then you can prepare the mead using the
directions above.
"The mead is best if you wait a year, and then it will keep as long as you
please. I have some now that is almost nine years old."
Of course in 300 years we have learned a few more things about meadmaking
(especially about yeast) that are not mentioned in this old text. But it is
an interesting historical document.
Bill Pierce
Cellar Door Homebrewery
Burlington, Ontario
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Bulk Honey
From: "Dave Polaschek" <davep@davespicks.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:10:56 -0500
Robert Lewis <mazerrob@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just wanted to know if anyone out there has bought honey in bulk, say 5
> gallon buckets, or however it's shipped.
Yes. Multiple times, for both "Clover" and "Wildflower" honey. I recommend
it, since buying that much at once means you'll be making multiple batches
with the same honey, and you can learn how it behaves and what it likes to
be paired with.
> Also, just as a non-sequiter, and i don't know if this is appropriate
> for a digest, but i am curious to know peoples favorite yeasts for meads.
I've never been impressed with "mead" yeasts. They just don't hit my
taste-buds quite right. I'll go to Lalvin D47 once in a while when I'm
after a more wine-like character, but my favorite yeast is the same
favorite "Edme" Ale Yeast I've been using for years. Safbrew S-33 is what
my local store stocks, but they say it's the same strain, and it seems to
behave the same for me.
- -DaveP
------------------------------
Subject: RE: Bulk Honey
From: "mail-box" <mail-box@taborek.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 15:13:53 -0400
> Subject: Bulk Honey
> From: Robert Lewis <mazerrob@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:02:38 -0400
>
> I just wanted to know if anyone out there has bought honey in bulk, say
> 5
> gallon buckets, or however it's shipped. Honey prices have put a bit
> of
> a damper on my mead making of late, and i have read that honey, so long
> as it is stored properly, keeps for a very very long time. I suppose i
> could do a google search for bulk honey, but i would welcome any first
> hand experiences.
>
> Also, just as a non-sequiter, and i don't know if this is appropriate
> for a digest, but i am curious to know peoples favorite yeasts for
> meads.
> it might be simpler just to Email me directly for that one, or maybe it
> wouldn't be so bad for the digest to get a flood of short yeast posts.
> I
> started with Champagne, but i think it's way to attenuative for a mead.
> I am currently very happy with the wyeast dry mead yeast, even tho, it
> rarely produces a dry mead, it leaves a very mellow finish, nice with
> Melomels.
>
> robert.
Robert,
I have purchased 5 gallon tubs of honey from Dutch Gold.
(http://www.dutchgoldhoney.com). I have always been happy with the quality
and the service. They come in and out of stock on various varietals, so you
may need to watch their site if they don't have what you're looking for at
the moment. For example, my last 5 gallon pail was raspberry, and that
isn't in their current list of availability.
They have more varietals available in smaller quantities, but the site
isn't friendly enough to tell you straight up what's available in which
quantities. You may click on a varietal and find that it's only available
in 1 lb, while you wanted 5lbs. New to the site since I last looked are a
few options for coupons or discounts.
I have also used The Bee Folks (http://www.beefolks.com), both in person
when they set up shop at the local renaissance festival, and via post. They
have a wide selection of varietals but are MUCH more expensive. So I've
only bought 5 lb containers from them to try out some interesting varietals.
For yeast, my "go to" is Red Star montrachet. I find it to be very
predictable and easy to use. But be aware: In past discussions of yeasts
montrachet has come under fire from other mead makers. I attribute this to
brewing style. I like a wine strength dry mead, not a "heroic" or "Viking"
mead with as much alcohol content as can be shoehorned in, nor a saccharine
drink. I brew a mead at wine level OGs, ferment dry, and occasionally I'll
back sweeten a portion of the bottling. Thus, my meads work well with
montrachet, while those with high OGs may not.
The Wyeast sweet and dry mead yeasts I've used exactly once each. Neither
was a good performer. And although that's a very small sample size to draw
a conclusion from and I may be being unfair, since I can go to montrachet
for less money and with proven and repeatable results, I don't see a need to
investigate them further.
Champaign yeast (EC-1118) is fine, but I've only used it for a
Champaign-style wine. I've used RC-212 in berry melomels with good results.
Ale yeast of a few types I find that, without the non-fermentable sugars in
a beer, work pretty much like a wine yeast in a mead. Though I haven't
tried things like a hefeweisen yeast which might contribute their
characteristic flavors to a mead.
Cheers,
Ken
------------------------------
Subject: Bulk Honey & Yeasts
From: Alex Flinsch <avflinsch@verizon.net>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 19:16:26 -0400
> Subject: Bulk Honey
> From: Robert Lewis <mazerrob@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:02:38 -0400
>
> I just wanted to know if anyone out there has bought honey in bulk, say 5
> gallon buckets, or however it's shipped. Honey prices have put a bit of
I have purchased honey in 5 gallon buckets several times, but always
locally. The usual price being somewhere between $150 - $180. 5 gallons
of honey = 60 lbs +/- the shipping costs will eat up a good chunk of
the savings. I can't say how long it keeps, I tend to make several
batches at once and use it all up. As a bonus, the bucket it comes in
makes a good fermentation container.
>
>
> started with Champagne, but i think it's way to attenuative for a mead.
> I am currently very happy with the wyeast dry mead yeast, even tho, it
> rarely produces a dry mead, it leaves a very mellow finish, nice with
> Melomels.
>
I will agree with the Champagne yeast, it tends to finish dry. You can
also keep feeding the batch with more honey, eventually it does stop,
high alcohol somewhat sweet.
For lighter and fruiter meads & wines my go-to yeast is Epernay #2 (Côte
des Blancs), for higher alcohol and drier meads I prefer Montrachet. I
also like Wyeast #3787 Trappist High Gravity & #1214 Belgian Abbey, both
seem to work well with fruity/spicy meads also.
--
Alex / AB2RC
http://ab2rc.net
------------------------------
Subject: Re: MLD #1586, 21 May 2012
From: arthur_torrey@comcast.net
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 03:14:30 +0000 (UTC)
- ----- Original Message -----
> Mead Lover's Digest #1586 21 May 2012
>
> Subject: Bulk Honey
> From: Robert Lewis <mazerrob@gmail.com>
> Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:02:38 -0400
>=20
> I just wanted to know if anyone out there has bought honey in bulk,
> say 5
> gallon buckets, or however it's shipped. Honey prices have put a bit
I've purchased bulk honey, but only from a local beekeeper. It does keep
for a long time, but tends to "go crystal" which is not a big problem,
just a bit annoying - you will need something like a canning pot that you
can stick the 5 gallon bucket in and slowly heat it in order to melt the
honey... I have heard that UPS charges a premium for shipping buckets,
but haven't had personal experience to confirm this...
I would also repeat the caution mentioned in previous digests to be wary
of potentially questionable quality imported honey, so be sure you know
the supplier and where they are getting the honey from.
> Also, just as a non-sequiter, and i don't know if this is appropriate
> for a digest, but i am curious to know peoples favorite yeasts for
> meads.
l have never had any luck with any of the Wyeast "slap pack" yeasts that
I've tried. I've done a couple of batches of different stuff using the White
Labs "test tube" yeasts (forget the variety offhand) that came out OK, but
wasn't so spectacular as to justify the premium price for the fancy package.
My usual "go to" yeast for all of my brews the past several years has
been Lalvin D-47. Very reliable, minimum hassle, keeps for a long time in
the fridge, and the only time it didn't start a good solid ferment right
away was when I made a batch of cyser that accidentally used cider with
sorbates (store changed the formulation on me...) I did get that batch
to go eventually by diluting and making some really heavy duty starter
solutions, but definitely a pain...
The D-47 doesn't go to as high a %alcohol as the champagne yeasts do,
I estimate that I get to around 14-15% using the "feed it till it stops"
method. It seems to leave sort of a flowery / fruity tone in the aftertaste
which isn't terribly noticeable and that goes well with any of the brews
that I've made.
Officially you are supposed to rehydrate the yeast by letting it soak in
~100*F water for 10-15 minutes before pitching, and I've usually done this,
but a couple of times I've just dumped the packet in the must and stirred
it well, and it started just as nicely - like I said it's a low hassle yeast
...
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Help with translation -old english-
> From: Gr=EF=BF=BDgoire Demets <gdemets@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 11:41:00 -0300
>=20
> Dear friends,
> I was looking for an old mead recipe and I found so in "The true
> Amazons : or, The monarchy of bees : being a new discovery and
> improvement of those wonderful creatures ... : also how to make the
> English wine or mead, equal, if not superior to the best of other
> wines" by Joseph Warder 1718
> I am not a native english speaker and I need some help to translate
> this text in modern english (as well as for the gallons and pounds
> that I believe are different from modern gallons and pounds.) The end
> of the recipe is difficult to me (posset etc...) I have no idea of
> what it is about...
> Could you help me please?
> Regards,
> Greg, from Brazil.
I seem to recall having seen discussion of this in some of the more modern
books (one of Papazian's???) and it was not really advised as something
to try. The old recipes are interesting, but they don't take advantage
of the things we have learned over time about microbiology, food science,
and so on. Sometimes they got good stuff, and sometimes they didn't,
with luck playing a major role...
That said, my VERY rough translation would be
Honey & water, 4 lbs honey to 1 gallon of water, which is on the sweet
side, but doesn't vary that much from modern practice,
Boil and strain, or skim off, the scum. Not sure on details of the filters
suggested, but probably something very fine
Allow to cool and transfer to your fermenting barrel, or tun. (which was
probably used, and thus coated with left over yeast, as well as any other
bacteria...) Not sure about "clay it up" but may have been suggesting the
use of bentonite or similar clay as a 'fining agent' to settle the yeast
when fermentation is done.
Wait till done -
Use in Possetts, which as I recall are smallish amounts of heated or
'mulled' wines, often with herbal medicines added
The above is when using clear (filtered?) honey. If using cappings wash,
or comb honey, you need to mix water in until an egg floats - essentially
sounds like a densitometer equivalent.
Also you are cautioned to not use comb with brood or pollen, as this will
give a bad flavor...
After making, it is best to age it for a year, and then it will keep for as
long as you like, the author having some that was at least nine years old...
That's my take on it at least - no promises, and I'm NOT suggesting trying
this recipe....
>
> How to make English Canary, no way inferior to the best of Spanish
> Wines.
> One hundred and twenty Pounds will make a Barrel of Very good Mead;
> but if you make it of clear Honey, then your best way is to allow four
> pounds to every gallon of water. Let your Quantity be much or little,
> which you ought to govern yourself by, either considering the bigness
> of your cask, or the quantity of honey you have to make up into Mead,
> mix it in your Copper, and then boil it and scum it well, which scum
> you may strain thro' Hyppocrates's Sleeve, or a taper Bag. made of
> swan-skin, with a Hoop at the broad end, letting the narrow end come
> to a point. Thia bag will make it as fine as the other, through which
> you may put it. When your mead is almost cold, Tun it up, clay it
> down, and let it stand till it is fine, and old enough to drink,which
> sometimes will be sooner than other, according to the time of the
> year, and weather that comes upon it after making. This liquor is one
> of the choicest of wines, as well as the most wholesome of all vinous
> liquors in the world, and ought to be drank and made use of in
> possets(poffets???)__strange symbol similar to @__? as Canary; and
> thus us'd it is impossible to know whether the posset was made of your
> own mead or canary. Thus for making of mead with clear honey, but if
> you do it with the washings of combs,or dissolve all your honey from
> the combs, then you must dissolve it in warm water, till an egg will
> swim in the mead the breadth of a Shilling. But here you must be very
> careful, that before you break your combs into the sieve or strainer,
> you separate all the young bees, which you may easily know from the
> honey, and also the sandrach or bee-bread, which is a yellow
> substance, with which some of the cells are fill'd, which otherwyour
> mead an ill taste, and then proceed to boil, scum, and tun as before.
> It is best if it be kept till it is a year old and if you make it
> well, as before, it will keep as long as you please. I have some now
> by me of almost nine years old.
ART
------------------------------
Subject: Updating mead recipe
From: "Spencer W. Thomas" <hbd@spencerwthomas.com>
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:18:08 -0400
> How to make English Canary, no way inferior to the best of Spanish Wines.
How to make a beverage similar to "Canary" wine, which is as good as the
best Spanish wine.
> One hundred and twenty Pounds will make a Barrel of Very good Mead;
> but if you make it of clear Honey, then your best way is to allow four
> pounds to every gallon of water.
Use 120 pounds of honey for a barrel of mead. ... That is, use 4 pounds
of honey per gallon of water. (This works out to about 400g of honey per
liter of water.)
> Let your Quantity be much or little, which you ought to govern
> yourself by, either considering the bigness of your cask, or the
> quantity of honey you have to make up into Mead,
Make as much or as little as fits your container -- or as much as you
have honey for.
> mix it in your Copper,
Mix it in the kettle.
> and then boil it and scum it well, which scum you may strain thro'
> Hyppocrates's Sleeve, or a taper Bag. made of swan-skin, with a Hoop
> at the broad end, letting the narrow end come to a point. Thia bag
> will make it as fine as the other, through which you may put it.
Bring it to a boil and skim off the scum that comes to the top. You can
strain the scum through a fine-mesh bag if you wish (to waste less of
the honey).
> When your mead is almost cold,
Let the mead cool to pitching temperature (20-30C).
> Tun it up, clay it down,
Put it in the fermenter and pitch the yeast (in those days, they didn't
know about yeast, so there's no instruction for pitching).
> and let it stand till it is fine,
Let it ferment completely.
> and old enough to drink,which sometimes will be sooner than other,
> according to the time of the year, and weather that comes upon it
> after making.
How long it needs to ferment depends on the temperature.
> This liquor is one of the choicest of wines,
It's really good.
> as well as the most wholesome of all vinous liquors in the world,
And good for you.
> and ought to be drank and made use of in possets(poffets???)__strange
> symbol similar to @__? as Canary; and thus us'd it is impossible to
> know whether the posset was made of your own mead or canary.
A "posset" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posset) is a hot drink made of
milk mixed with wine. (In the original, the word "posset" is presumably
typeset with the "long s" symbol: "po????et", which looks sort of like the
letter "f", but the bar doesn't go all the way across. (Hopefully that
character will come through the digest unmangled.) I don't know what the
strange symbol is about.
[Janitor's note: No, the long-s doesn't come through, as the Digest
operates in 8859-1, not UTF-8.]
> Thus for making of mead with clear honey, but if you do it with the
> washings of combs,or dissolve all your honey from the combs, then you
> must dissolve it in warm water,
If your honey is still in the comb, or if you're using honeycomb from
which most of the honey has been extracted, you should start by
dissolving it in warm water.
> till an egg will swim in the mead the breadth of a Shilling.
Using an egg as a primitive hydrometer to determine how much sugar/honey
has been dissolved. Put an egg into the water. When there is the right
amount of honey dissolved, the egg will float and the part above water
will be about the size of a Shilling coin -- but I'm not sure how large
that is -- somewhere in the range of 1 - 2 cm.
> But here you must be very careful, that before you break your combs
> into the sieve or strainer, you separate all the young bees, which you
> may easily know from the honey, and also the sandrach or bee-bread,
> which is a yellow substance, with which some of the cells are fill'd,
> which otherwyour mead an ill taste, and then proceed to boil, scum,
> and tun as before.
Stuff other than honey in the comb will cause off flavors -- take them
out before you boil the mead.
> It is best if it be kept till it is a year old and if you make it
> well, as before, it will keep as long as you please. I have some now
> by me of almost nine years old.
Let it sit for a year before drinking, and it will continue to be good
for several years.
=Spencer
------------------------------
End of Mead Lover's Digest #1587
*******************************
